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Thread: lying

  1. #11
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    excluding information is not a lie.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  2. #12
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    I try to be as honest as seems prudent. I feel better about myself when I'm truthful and keeping a rule of honesty keeps me from doing things I wouldn't want to have to tell anyone about.

    Besides, my memory is getting too poor to try to remember which lies I've told to whom! Heh.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    That would be a great bonus, yes.

    The Jeuits have it nailed. They tell me that it is wrong to tell a lie, but there is no obligation to tell the truth.

    And not to be outdone by the Jesuits, Islam counters with Taqiyya. And tell me that it is wrong to lie to muslims but it is fine to lie to infidels.

    And we all know that a good diplomat lies for his country.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    No talk of "Sin of Omission" from the good Catholics?
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anja View Post
    No talk of "Sin of Omission" from the good Catholics?
    Well, there are sins of Ommission. And there are sins of Commission. Then there are sins of Emission.

    Call me silly if you wish, but Email has always been an Occasion of Sin for me.

    But the Bible tells me that even the good man sins seven times a day. So I try to never send more than seven Emails on any one day.

    However my Confessor tells me that my besetting sin is Scruples

    Surely I say, a peccadillo?

    Would you want me to be a man without scruples?

  6. #16

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    when is it ok to lie?
    To save a life.

    how much of the truth should you bend?
    As much as need be.

    do you ever lie, even though it be a lot simpler to tell the truth?
    No, I lied because the truth would complicate matters.

    have people caught you in a lie?
    Now and again.

    if so what were their reaction?
    Surprise, Anger.

    Do you lie more then you should?
    I never lie anymore, the truth is more simpler these days. Easier to take my medicine like a man.

    Peoples idea of the truth is often so selective it might as well be a lie.

  7. #17
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    If it's even somewhat selective, it's a lie.

    Lying is probably the best thing to happen since the Nixon era.

  8. #18
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    This topic has rather fuzzy boundaries primarily because the truth isn't always ours to tell. Human being's thoughts and perceptions are easily distorted, and this is the primary reason that using false information is even an option. Since false information of any kind is in conflict with reality, it would seem to be less stable in the long-term than ideas supported by reality. The ability of the human mind to hold on to such distortions is the only things that gives a lie any endurance.

    If you take two individuals, both selling crappy vacuum cleaners, and one really believes it is a good deal, while the other is knowingly conning his customers, the result for the customer is equivalent. Did one tell the truth because they actually believed the lie? The more I look at this, the more I see truth as an unattainable ideal.

    I do see value in making a consistent effort to communicate what is true to the best of my ability. The point of this is to build credibility and trust long-term. I prefer to think long-term and so I value facing reality as it is and attempting to make it relevant in my communication. There are subjective moments when it is experience an not information that is being communicated, and in that instance I attempt to communicate based on that. For example, I had a dear friend attack me verbally and the information was false, but the experience was an attempt to reach out to be validated. For this reason I apologized for something I hadn't done because this person was craving that validation and was reaching out to me to give it. The truth I told was that I cared about them and that they can count on me to have their best interest at heart. I have later since attempted to gently demonstrate ways the information was false without focusing on it too much. In another example, the old question of whether or not you would tell a soldier where a friend was hiding so they would kill them, no I would be plenty happy to lie to the soldier. This is because the soldier is asking me for the location of a life he hold the right to violate and the answer to that question is "I have not seen any such person". In my thinking, that is as much truth as anything I would know to say.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  9. #19
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Well, there are sins of Ommission. And there are sins of Commission. Then there are sins of Emission.

    Call me silly if you wish, but Email has always been an Occasion of Sin for me.

    But the Bible tells me that even the good man sins seven times a day. So I try to never send more than seven Emails on any one day.

    However my Confessor tells me that my besetting sin is Scruples

    Surely I say, a peccadillo?

    Would you want me to be a man without scruples?
    A "besetting sin" of Scruples treads close to one of the Seven, Victor, my dear grape-peeler. Pride. Watch'er step with that one.

    Wouldn't care to get an email with a sin of Emission attached. Nope, wouldn't wanna.


    No pecadillos either. (I love them little armoured suckers.)
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  10. #20
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    Nice post, toonia!
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

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