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  1. #31
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erinavery View Post
    not at all...

    i am not jealous because i don't feel i'm entitled to someone else's things...i don't feel i'm more worthy to have them...i think...awesome...yay you!! and i mean it.
    That would be envy, not jealousy. Jealousy is when you feel that the value of something or someone that you already have is being threatened. Envy is when you want something or someone that you don't have but someone else has it/them.

  2. #32
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erinavery View Post
    to dream or visualize things you want for yourself is by no means the same as being jealous and/or envious.
    Absolutely.

    It is one thing to *admire* things and traits about people and to desire to work on developing or obtaining these things/traits yourself, but to envy, and be jealous of these things really makes little sense.

    If I were hypothetically overweight, why would I ever envy those who weren't?

    It would be much more beneficial for me to focus on myself and try to reach a weight that I would be most comfortable with, rather than constantly comparing myself to others, right?

    Really, we all have our strengths and weaknesses, and I think if you value yourself as a whole, then you would cease to envy others.

    There are tons of people out there who are wealthier than me, more intelligent, and physically attractive but none of that takes away from the fact that I think/know that I am, over all, pretty damn unique and awesome!!!

    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

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  3. #33
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick View Post
    It is one thing to *admire* things and traits about people and to desire to work on developing or obtaining these things/traits yourself, but to envy, and be jealous of these things really makes little sense.
    Is that a distinction between admiration and envy? It's healthy to have people to look up to and aspire to become like. From what I understand of it, full-blown envy is not wanting others to possess attributes you don't personally have but would like to have. I think it is that "if I can't have it no one can" mentality. This is sad though, because if you really value something it would be sad for it to not exist any where at all.

    edit: One issue with envy is the way self concept develops in light of it. For a person to only know him/herself in relationship to whomever they feel superior to is unfortunate. In those cases discovering someone "superior" threatens that very sense of self. There is a way to know oneself without it relying on the context of others. There is intrinsic beauty on various levels that doesn't require superiority to something else in order to have meaning and value. For example, the graceful line of a cheekbone can be beautiful for its mathematical proportion regardless of what any other cheekbone has ever looked like. This way of thinking can be applied to more abstract attributes of thought, intentions, creativity, etc. as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick View Post
    There are tons of people out there who are wealthier than me, more intelligent, and physically attractive but none of that takes away from the fact that I think/know that I am, over all, pretty damn unique and awesome!!!

    I wonder if that is the strength of Fi? It is the cognitive process that knows oneself in a personal and meaningful way.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

    I want to be just like my mother, even if she is bat-shit crazy.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by erinavery View Post
    not at all...

    i am not jealous because i don't feel i'm entitled to someone else's things...i don't feel i'm more worthy to have them...i think...awesome...yay you!! and i mean it.
    I'll have everyone know, however, that I don't think I've ever been envious of other people's material belongings.

    I am more envious of personality traits and talents of various sorts.

  5. #35
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    Is that a distinction between admiration and envy? It's healthy to have people to look up to and aspire to become like. From what I understand of it, full-blown envy is not wanting others to possess attributes you don't personally have but would like to have. I think it is that "if I can't have it no one can" mentality. This is sad though, because if you really value something it would be sad for it to not exist any where at all.
    I agree fully.

    To admire people and qualities that you yourself do not possess is a positive thing, I believe it comes from a positive place and it facilitates positive things, like personal growth.

    Envy, on the other hand, comes from a negative place and it fosters negative things, like bitterness and contempt.
    `
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    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

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  6. #36
    Senior Member Dwigie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    I'll have everyone know, however, that I don't think I've ever been envious of other people's material belongings.

    I am more envious of personality traits and talents of various sorts.
    Same here, including the material belongings.
    I truly admire people who don't feel jealous often, because I am jealous by nature and trying to think like them doesn't come naturally for me. I try to grow and be "more like x" but I know I'm just lying to myself because I do not honestly feel that way very often.
    I still don't believe you erinavery when you say you've never felt jealous though.It's the word never that bothers me, it seems to me to be kind of a self-righteous claim because of that "never".
    Sometimes I feel like I'm "on Mercury"-

  7. #37
    Feline Member kelric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick View Post
    `
    That being stated, I would love for you guys to share your thoughts, feelings and experiences with jealousy and envy.

    And please be as honest as possible in your responses.

    Thanks much!!!

    Male, INtP. I don't think I'm a particularly jealous or envious person, but I do have my moments (generally of envy, not jealousy - most of what I "have" isn't susceptible to "loss" in that way). I'm usually able to put them aside as the petty distractions they are, but there have been a few that stuck with me - but they're more in the line of "I made a mistake - had I chosen X instead of Y, I might have had a chance to have Z (sigh )".

    Most of these little distractions are generic in nature - I tend not to be envious of a particular person (when it comes to romantic envy) or item (material envy) - it's more of a "this seems to easy for others to achieve... why can't I do the same?" type of thing. It's immature, I know, and not something I'm proud of - but I try to do my best to put those moments aside and move on.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick View Post
    What good ever comes of feeling either of these things?
    Just like anything, if looked at in the proper way, I think good can come of these... envy, anyway. If it's taken as a destructive force ("Waaaah! Gimme!") there's not much good that tends to come from it, I agree. If, on the other hand, it's taken as a responsible incentive to achieve ("Hey, it bugs me that I can't do X, I need to change my behavior Y so that I can earn what I want") I think it can be an accessible motivator for positive change.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dwigie View Post
    Same here, including the material belongings.
    I truly admire people who don't feel jealous often, because I am jealous by nature and trying to think like them doesn't come naturally for me. I try to grow and be "more like x" but I know I'm just lying to myself because I do not honestly feel that way very often.
    I still don't believe you erinavery when you say you've never felt jealous though.It's the word never that bothers me, it seems to me to be kind of a self-righteous claim because of that "never".
    see...i just don't get that at all. i'm not saying i'm not jealous because i'm as good as it gets...not at all...it comes from the idea of everyone standing on their own two feet and not defining myself or others through comparison.

    i admire traits in others quite a lot...i am fascinated by everyone's unique gifts...it makes me all tingly inside to discover them...but it doesn't get internalized in a way that takes away from who i am.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  9. #39
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hmm View Post
    That would be envy, not jealousy. Jealousy is when you feel that the value of something or someone that you already have is being threatened. Envy is when you want something or someone that you don't have but someone else has it/them.
    i was trying to keep the answer brief...but you could extend the word things to include people and their traits...

    i feel i can appreciate others traits without feeling jealous of them....i don't see why someone would assume they were the same thing.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  10. #40
    Senior Member Dwigie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erinavery View Post
    see...i just don't get that at all. i'm not saying i'm not jealous because i'm as good as it gets...not at all...it comes from the idea of everyone standing on their own two feet and not defining myself or others through comparison.

    i admire traits in others quite a lot...i am fascinated by everyone's unique gifts...it makes me all tingly inside to discover them...but it doesn't get internalized in a way that takes away from who i am.
    I understand what you're saying. I think I'm coming on aggressive though(I get that I give that impression a lot).
    I'm saying that you must have felt jealous at least once in your entire lifetime as in from the day you were born to this moment. It's human nature. I'm saying that I'm counting the toddler years as well and I am sure that you must have been jealous over a toy or something at the age of 3.
    I am not saying you get engulfed by jealousy and what not right now or maybe in the past ten years but it's undeniable that people feel jealousy.
    It's great that you are not a jealous person, but you can't say you've never felt jealousy once in your life.
    Sometimes I feel like I'm "on Mercury"-

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