User Tag List

12 Last

Results 1 to 10 of 17

  1. #1
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INfj
    Posts
    3,741

    Default Fake it til you make it part II

    A continuation of our exploration on the idea of Faking it until you make it.

    Most people agreed that we should try to overcome our shyness and self consciousness by acting out confidence until "the act" becomes second nature to us... that is we have become what we initially tried to act out. It's really not so much "faking" as learning new skill sets via practice. What happens if I take the question one step further?

    Should we fake confidence in order to attract potential mates?

    It's common knowledge that women typically prefer men with self confidence and charisma. This so called "alpha male" phenomenon.

    This idea is explored in some interesting readings... such as Neil Strauss's "The game: penetrating the secret society of pickup artists". Clearly not all men are naturally charismatic... why not fake it? You'll eventually make it...

    Yet most people react strongly against this, even though they've fully agreed with what I said in the first case. Why? What's the difference between the two?

  2. #2
    Arcesso pulli gingerios! Eldanen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4
    Socionics
    ENTp
    Posts
    697

    Default

    I had an interesting experience at the mall the other day, and while it doesn't relate to attracting mates, it does relate to attracting other people.

    I have this black denim jacket that I like to wear. For some reason it makes me feel like I exude some sort of very icy, chill, rebel/confidence, lone wolf type personality. It's the kind of thing I enjoy, and I decided that as part of my repair-my-personality-after-leaving-christianity act, I'd try getting into that mode again.

    So anyway, I put on the jacket and head out to the mall, not really trying to be noticed, but just minding my own business and enjoying that feeling. While I was at the mall, I noticed that three other guys randomly paid attention to me and said, "What's up?" Now, I'm used to getting absolutely no attention whatsoever when I go to the mall, so I thought it was interesting enough to hold a count of how many people noticed me. It was an intriguing and invigorating experience .

  3. #3
    Senior Member Kora's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    477

    Default

    But maybe showing too much confidence scares potential mates, who may think they're not at your expectatives. This is prone to happen because since we don't know that much about self-confidence, we won't be able to tell where's the limit.
    It usually happens to me.
    5w4 - Idiosyncratic/Leisurely/Dramatic
    It's the devil's way now.

  4. #4
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INfj
    Posts
    3,741

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldanen View Post
    I had an interesting experience at the mall the other day, and while it doesn't relate to attracting mates, it does relate to attracting other people.

    I have this black denim jacket that I like to wear. For some reason it makes me feel like I exude some sort of very icy, chill, rebel/confidence, lone wolf type personality. It's the kind of thing I enjoy, and I decided that as part of my repair-my-personality-after-leaving-christianity act, I'd try getting into that mode again.

    So anyway, I put on the jacket and head out to the mall, not really trying to be noticed, but just minding my own business and enjoying that feeling. While I was at the mall, I noticed that three other guys randomly paid attention to me and said, "What's up?" Now, I'm used to getting absolutely no attention whatsoever when I go to the mall, so I thought it was interesting enough to hold a count of how many people noticed me. It was an intriguing and invigorating experience .
    Now that's interesting. Clothes make the man? Kidding... Any idea as to why it might attract attention. I would imagine it's a "normal" jacket that doesn't scream for attention. You don't seem like the type to go for crazily styled clothes. So is it so much the cool jacket or your mannerism you think that caused people to notice you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kora View Post
    But maybe showing too much confidence scares potential mates, who may think they're not at your expectatives. This is prone to happen because since we don't know that much about self-confidence, we won't be able to tell where's the limit.
    It usually happens to me.
    No. My apologies, I guess I misphrased it. Let me try it again.

    Assume they followed the whatever techniques to the T and get everything down pat. They look self-confident but it's not over done.

    My question is this:
    what do you personally feel in general about people faking confidence and charisma in order to attract a potential mate?
    Is it an okay thing to do or not?
    If it's not, why? How is it different from faking self confidence for other things, like for business interactions?

  5. #5
    Senior Member Simplexity's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    1,741

    Default

    I think that we can all agree that confidence is something that people gravitate towards so it would be wise to try and attain this quality. I think its a skill that some people can flick on and off rather easily, in fact I would venture to say the people who consistently seem confident have that ability. I notice though that when I have a girl or two showing some interest in me my confidence levels spike and it seems like it forces me to be in a perpetual state of exuding it, which in turn gets me more attention.

    I would say though that from talking with one of my friends who constantly tries to measure up to me and always assess little things that differentiate us that some people do in fact need to fake it more than others. I've always had a skill in being confident in my speaking and thinking abilities so I've never had the need to fake them, he on the other hand constantly tries to prop up his ideas and words( sloppily tries to imitate my vocab) and it is rather evident to me but to others it is not as noticeable and for that reason it works for him.

    In short I think its one of those things that actually can work wonders but in comparison to someone else who isn't trying to prop themselves up it falls short. Like sometimes when you encounter someone who is remarkably intelligent, regardless of your own assessment of intelligence you either feel a need to play up or doubt your own abilities in comparison to theirs. That is obvious to everyone else and theres no mistaking it.
    My cold, snide, intellectual life is just a veneer, behind which lies the plywood of loneliness.

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    MBTI
    InFp
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Socionics
    INFj
    Posts
    322

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    Yet most people react strongly against this, even though they've fully agreed with what I said in the first case. Why? What's the difference between the two?
    The difference is that by "faking" it in relationships, you're following a mold, and changing yourself based on other people's opinions, instead of being confident in yourself, and who you are. That's why I don't like "The Game" and other such material. They all basically say that Guy A is good at picking up women, so in order for you to pick up women, you have to fake being Guy A until you become Guy A, when there are many more options and solutions out there. Be yourself, and be confident about yourself. If you don't have that confidence, then fake the confidence, but still be yourself.

  7. #7
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INfj
    Posts
    3,741

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Neo Genesis View Post
    The difference is that by "faking" it in relationships, you're following a mold, and changing yourself based on other people's opinions, instead of being confident in yourself, and who you are. That's why I don't like "The Game" and other such material. They all basically say that Guy A is good at picking up women, so in order for you to pick up women, you have to fake being Guy A until you become Guy A, when there are many more options and solutions out there. Be yourself, and be confident about yourself. If you don't have that confidence, then fake the confidence, but still be yourself.
    That was my question... Whenever you're acting, whether it's related to relationships or not, you're following a mold. In order to improve anything... it's always easier having a guide. In the case of self-improvement, a role model. Role models are suppose to be "good" things to have.

    When you talk about "faking" or "modelling" confidence though for attracting girls... people get upset. I suspect it has something to do with Fi. I'm not exactly sure what... care to try explaining?

  8. #8
    Arcesso pulli gingerios! Eldanen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4
    Socionics
    ENTp
    Posts
    697

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    Now that's interesting. Clothes make the man? Kidding... Any idea as to why it might attract attention. I would imagine it's a "normal" jacket that doesn't scream for attention. You don't seem like the type to go for crazily styled clothes. So is it so much the cool jacket or your mannerism you think that caused people to notice you?
    I believe that it was the mannerism, personally. The jacket is mostly ordinary, as you said. You know how things go. I was putting myself rather intentionally in that mindset, so no doubt I was projecting certain things in my body language. I can be a good actor, if I want to be . (And if I can suppress my current emotions long enough to take on the other character's emotions, bleh! )

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    MBTI
    InFp
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Socionics
    INFj
    Posts
    322

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    That was my question... Whenever you're acting, whether it's related to relationships or not, you're following a mold. In order to improve anything... it's always easier having a guide. In the case of self-improvement, a role model. Role models are suppose to be "good" things to have.
    No, there's a difference. Trying to improve a specific part of yourself, like confidence, is different from changing all the aspects of how you interact with other people, which is generally what the PUA community tries to promote. Its very specific, just a bunch of techniques and pre-meditated responses for specific situations. For me, my "mold" is my idealized version of myself, yet I don't care so much about the "result", and instead focus on whether or not I'm following my own ethical code, so there might be a difference between us. Ugh, I can't really explain it too well.

    When you talk about "faking" or "modelling" confidence though for attracting girls... people get upset. I suspect it has something to do with Fi. I'm not exactly sure what... care to try explaining?
    Oh, ok, I got it now. People generally want romantic relationships to be genuine, and there's a certain negative connotation with "faking" who you really are. It just feels under-handed, and most people may view this as you lying about who you really are. Also, there's the idea that because you're so unconfident in yourself that you have to generate this alter-ego, you're not worth the effort (that sounds harsh to me). Again, most people seem to believe that relationships just happen, and that purposefully acting like someone you're not is wrong, because you're not being yourself. False pretenses and such.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Simplexity's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    1,741

    Default

    I think a lot of people are focusing too much on the ethical aspects of "faking", that would be wise if you are going under the false assumption that a large majority of people do not doubt themselves when confronted with "scary" things such as new relationships.

    In order to not needlessly self-doubt yourself to an alarming degree, I think personally, that you need to have a positive view on the person you are. Alarmingly so to a certain extent because when we have a perceived notion of ourselves succeeding at a very high level we circumvent the natural self-doubt that occurs as a result of pressure and anxiety.

    It's a tactic when used with reasonable ethics can produce excellent results and one that is a staple to most people who are very successful in life even taking to account less than stellar situations.
    My cold, snide, intellectual life is just a veneer, behind which lies the plywood of loneliness.

Similar Threads

  1. [E8] Type 8 and type 5 - How can you make it work?
    By CubeWuerfel in forum Enneatypes
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 08-21-2017, 12:58 PM
  2. Life is what you make of it ?
    By vince in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 02-05-2010, 01:22 PM
  3. Fake it til you make it
    By nightning in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 31
    Last Post: 11-06-2008, 12:47 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO