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What's it like to be a Thinker?

nolla

Senor Membrane
Joined
May 22, 2008
Messages
3,166
MBTI Type
INFP
I feel like there has been a lot of discussions about how feelers think. I don't understand why... it is a lot more mysterious that there are people who can think clearly and detach themselves from their values. They claim they are objective, even if no one even knows what objectivity truly means. Mysterious. So, some questions.. feel free to add your own questions.

1) Do you thinkers believe in objectivity?
2) Do you have values?
3) When do you feel like you need to defend your values?
4) Do you ever question the power of logic?
5) What makes you happy?
6) Would you rather be smart, intelligent or wise?
 

Eldanen

Arcesso pulli gingerios!
Joined
Apr 26, 2007
Messages
697
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w4
1) I believe there is a shared reality consensus relating to the physical world. I think we can learn many things about how the universe works. My subjectivity relates to the ultimate reality. I don't think that it's possible to conceive of or experience it, but that we just all have shades of understanding concerning it. I personally have a lot of subjective experiences in my emotions and imagination, and I'm in my head the majority of the time daydreaming.

2) I have things I like and don't like, but I wouldn't necessarily call those things values. I'm apt to switch these things at any time depending on which I feel is right for the moment. I have nothing that I really stick to, just for the purpose of "sticking to." If it makes sense, fine. If it doesn't, I trash it.

3) Usually I feel the need to defend my ideologies whenever I get angry at the other person, or when I feel like having a romp with them in argument :p. A lot of the time I'll just shut my mouth though because I do have my reasons, yet they aren't the most easily explained to those outside my experience.

4) Of course I question the power of Logic. It can do many things, but all-in-all: it's just a process. Without sufficient bits of data to work with, you're always going to come up with the wrong answer. Which is why I like to stick often to my intuitive perceptions of the world around me, and pay attention to the non-verbal relationships that subtly enhance my view.

5) Novelty is what I'd say makes me happy. Also, having a good friend on my level to chat with. I enjoy creature comforts like sex a lot ;). I like big ideas, and deep ideas (as long as it's T depth and not F). Daydreaming is a crucial element to my existence. It's always been there and likely will always be there to keep me company.

6) I choose intelligent over just "smart," because the word smart has superficial connotations when it comes to the mind. Intelligence is someone who has refined their way of viewing the world. Wisdom I'm not interested in as much, because I like to find my own way of doing things, rather than paying attention to sayings of old, etc. It's just more fun to pay attention to the more baser experiences of life. Wisdom's no fun! :p :p
 

kaboom

New member
Joined
Oct 25, 2008
Messages
34
MBTI Type
INTP
1) Do you thinkers believe in objectivity? Could you possibly mean the word "subjectivity" here? Perhaps I just don't get the question. To think is in many ways just being objective. Taking the evaluation or perceptions outside of oneself. Not filtering through feelings or beliefs.
That said I DO have subjective outlooks...I don't care for when my 8 year old daughter choses to fart in my vicinity. I have no objective way of looking at this...yet. Well..other than children up to sometimes 10 do not have a moral hedge to fall against when making decisions.
She will stop finding this funny in a year or two.

2) Do you have values? That is an interesting question and a good one to ask myself. I would have to say I do not have so much hard and fast values. I can see justification for many things people say are "wrong" as well as reasons not to do the things people say are "right"

3) When do you feel like you need to defend your values? No

4) Do you ever question the power of logic? SURE! I question everything! I also function much of the time by intuition ...at least before I reach the logic and analysis part of figuring life out. Often there are no details to arrange in order to make a logical conclusion...that drives me crazy. I am then reliant on only intuiton and my best guess. Not good enough.

5) What makes you happy? Next question. I simply could not answer this. Plus I think happiness is a choice...not something that happens to a person.

6) Would you rather be smart, intelligent or wise? Sure...although "wise" implies some feeling-ness. I am trying to mature that aspect of my personality. But I have to say I just am not there yet. I can not relate in a way that would be called "wisdom".
I ultimately see no point to this question since we don't really chose to be smart or intelligent or wise? I would like to know another thinker's point of view on this.
 

Orangey

Blah
Joined
Jun 26, 2008
Messages
6,354
MBTI Type
ESTP
Enneagram
6w5
Do you thinkers believe in objectivity?

Hmmm...I'm going to say yes. That said, I'm not sure that it's something that any human can perfectly achieve. Merely having this opinion puts me on the fringes of my discipline, though.

Do you have values?

I do, though I wouldn't be able to "name" them, or even describe what they are. They only manifest themselves when someone has done something that I feel is grossly offensive, or when someone does/says something that is particularly gauche. And even then the whole thing is curious to me because I never really think about what my values are, and am therefore surprised when they actually surface. Plus I think that I change my mind about certain values every so often.

When do you feel the need to defend your values?

Um...when they're challenged? When else would anyone feel the need to defend their values? It's not like people go around defending their values for fun, unless they're maybe doing it internally to work out/sort their values for themselves.

Do you ever question the power of logic?

Absolutely. In fact, I'm not entirely clear on what it even means to say that someone is "logical". In practice this usually ends up meaning that someone is willing to say something that's true in spite of whose feelings it might hurt. Otherwise, we don't have people going around all day talking in syllogisms. When I make decisions, it's never on the basis of any linear line of reasoning or proof of the sort that you would see in mathematics or formal logic.

And now that I'm talking about it, I'm actually getting a little sick of seeing type descriptions that describe "thinkers" as people that reason in terms of "formal logic", because if that were the case, then why would any of them ever need to actually learn the rules of logic? They have to because formal logic is not a representation of the way that we think, and I think that it's a little naive to think and/or state that it is so.

What makes you happy?

I think that this is a circumstantial sort of thing, but if there were anything in the world that consistently makes me feel happy, I'd say that it's natural beauty. And this beauty can manifest itself in a text, in scenery, in art, in ideas, in anything. I know it when I see it.

Would you rather be smart, intelligent or wise?

Well I'd say that the ultimate one of those choices is wisdom. I already consider myself to be a fairly smart/intelligent person (if we're talking about natural or fundamental intelligence, the type that can't be improved with the addition of knowledge) so the next step would be to gain wisdom. And I think that one gains wisdom slowly but surely through the agglomeration of more knowledge, both about the world and about one's self.
 

Jack Flak

Permabanned
Joined
Jul 17, 2008
Messages
9,098
MBTI Type
type
1) Do you thinkers believe in objectivity?
2) Do you have values?
3) When do you feel like you need to defend your values?
4) Do you ever question the power of logic?
5) What makes you happy?
6) Would you rather be smart, intelligent or wise?

1. Objectivity in what sense? Believe in it as an ideal, a goal? Or that we can be truly detached? J/K I know you didn't know what you meant. I try to be objective if I'm discussing something impersonal, a mental exercise or such, and subjective if I'm dealing with a personal matter.
2. Yes.
3. Whenever they're up against the wall. They may be fewer, but I think the feeling involved is similar to the one Fs have.
4. If there were anything better at getting to the nuts and bolts of something, we would know about it.
5. Lots of things.
6. Wise.
 

01011010

New member
Joined
Jun 22, 2008
Messages
3,916
MBTI Type
INxJ
1) Do you thinkers believe in objectivity?
Yes

2) Do you have values?
Sort of. Not in the traditional sense like morals. If something negative is backed with scientific evidence, I consider that solid.

3) When do you feel like you need to defend your values?
Not sure

4) Do you ever question the power of logic?
No

5) What makes you happy?
Kittens, rainbows, and glitter.

6) Would you rather be smart, intelligent or wise?
Wise
 

Fiver

New member
Joined
Sep 26, 2008
Messages
216
MBTI Type
ENTP
1) Do you thinkers believe in objectivity?
Yes. But as an ideal. I try to be objective about how objective I actually am. You could say objectivity is one of my values.

2) Do you have values?
Yes. But I do not compare them to other people or feel dissonance if other people do not approve of my values.


When do you feel you need to defend your values?
See above.

4) Do you ever question the power of logic?
No. I see it as a very useful ideal. However, as a practical matter I can see that making what I considered the logical decision with respect to life's crossroads may not have always led to the most successful course. For example, in choosing my major I went with something practical, not something that I was passionate about.

5) What makes you happy?
Happiness is a choice.

6) Would you rather be smart, intelligent or wise?
Wise.
 

Lateralus

New member
Joined
May 18, 2007
Messages
6,262
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
3w4
1) Do you thinkers believe in objectivity?
Yes, but humans are not capable of achieving it.

2) Do you have values?
Of course, who doesn't?

3) When do you feel like you need to defend your values?
When someone threatens them

4) Do you ever question the power of logic?
No

5) What makes you happy?
This is too vague to answer.

6) Would you rather be smart, intelligent or wise?
You have to define these before I can answer this.
 

Airius

New member
Joined
Oct 21, 2008
Messages
54
MBTI Type
INTJ
1) Do you thinkers believe in objectivity?
Yes.


2) Do you have values?
Sure.


3) When do you feel like you need to defend your values?
Everyone's views are different. Live and let live.


4) Do you ever question the power of logic?
What? :huh:


5) What makes you happy?
Peace and discovering.


6) Would you rather be smart, intelligent or wise?
Wise.
 
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
1,511
MBTI Type
ENTP
1) Do you thinkers believe in objectivity?
Yes, I "believe" in facts.
2) Do you have values?
yes
3) When do you feel like you need to defend your values?
I guess sometimes with people I am close to. I don't make myself emotionally vulnerable to anyone else. When someone I'm close to stomps on my values I feel betrayed because I entrusted them with a part of me that I am not comfortable with showing to just anyone
4) Do you ever question the power of logic?
It's a powerful instrument for understanding and accuracy. The trouble is most people don't want the truth. They want to feel good. So unfortunately it's not a very powerful tool for compelling people.
Then there's efficiency. It's not very expedient for getting things done.
5) What makes you happy?
Not having to worry about logistics, intellectual revelations, being outside on a nice day and not being harassed by bums, traveling, looking forward to something, reading a good book, being witty/creative, brainstorming
6) Would you rather be smart, intelligent or wise?
wise
 

Simplexity

New member
Joined
Jul 15, 2008
Messages
1,741
MBTI Type
INTP
1) Do you believe in objectivity?

I believe objectivity is flexible and can be applied to the situation. I think of it sort of as a framework, and I have many of those that I go by. True objectivity is impossible so I figure that if I spin some of my subjective beliefs and reference objective standards to support them, then I am set. Being too stringent and insisting upon *true* objectivity is something that will just make you retreat further into an idealized world, it won't help you relate with others either. Most people shockingly discard objectivity and have no sense of what it means or at least they don't acknowledge it when its presented to them. Either that or they can't sense the distinctions between both well enough.


2) Do you have values?

I wouldn't say their malleable but I like to consider them somewhat adjustable according to the situation. I know thats going to send off a red flag to the more feeling inclined but to me it doesn't make sense to endlessly ponder just what it is I feel strongly about and create sort of a mandate on the way I will act. I rely on my true kindheartedness and reasonabilty( In the sense that I don't consciously try and offend or hurt others) to be the backbone of my values. I think the biggest reason is I need to have some logical order in my decisions and strong values about a wide number of things serve more as a hindrance than a guide IMHO.


3) When do you feel like you need to defend your values?

My values are pretty reserved and internalized. They're only observable in the rare instance that someone combines stupidity, an overbearing tendency, certainty, and encroaches on something that I feel deeply about or is important to me.


4) Do you ever question the power of logic?

Not really. I think theres a distinction that has to be made because I'm not one that believes in absolute reductionist logic. That is extremely rigid. I like to use it more as a tool that can apply to any situation and can be called upon on a whim.


5) What makes you happy?

When I'm really curious about something.


6) Would you rather be smart, intelligent or wise?

I would say smart. In my mind that implies more of a trickster mentality which is something similar to what I posses. Wise is too sage like, I'm not one for patiently giving little snippets of knowledge to those who ask for it, I hate little riddles and elaborate messages.
 
Last edited:

Kora

New member
Joined
Jul 29, 2008
Messages
477
MBTI Type
ENTP
1) Do you thinkers believe in objectivity?
Objectivity is so subjective... Yet I'd rather stuck to what it's more objective.

2) Do you have values?
Sure. They're not too many, but yet they're important to me, because I find them quite logical.

3) When do you feel like you need to defend your values?
When they're violated. I can be really raw and childish about it.

4) Do you ever question the power of logic?
I do believe in logic, but it can be questionable too. Truth is not mathematical.

5) What makes you happy?
Doing things my own way.

6) Would you rather be smart, intelligent or wise?
Intelligent.
 

nightning

ish red no longer *sad*
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
3,741
MBTI Type
INfj
What's it like being a thinker? Lousy

1) Do you thinkers believe in objectivity?
That's a qualification for Ts no?
2) Do you have values?
Who doesn't? Even an AI system has a table of values. :newwink:
3) When do you feel like you need to defend your values?
When others are twisting values around to support their irrational believes
4) Do you ever question the power of logic?
Yes, there are cases where logic fails. People aren't predictable like machines.
5) What makes you happy?
Doing fun stuff! :D
6) Would you rather be smart, intelligent or wise?
intelligence, for street smart and knowledge can be learnt. Intelligence is inborn.
 

Grayscale

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 20, 2007
Messages
1,965
MBTI Type
ISTP
1) Do you thinkers believe in objectivity?

I don't "believe" in objectivity, I know true objectivity is the foundation of making the most rational decisions, so I try to be as objective as possible. I don't think anyone can ever by entirely objective, or should be... if we could boil everything down to math, we'd have a sure-fire way of approaching anything, but personal preference must be weighed into most things at some point. outside of that requirement, logical objectivity is best.

2) Do you have values?

yes, but they come last... see #1

3) When do you feel like you need to defend your values?

im not sure what you mean... "defend"? nobody can really do anything to my values, their an intangible entity that exists in my mind.

if i see something that i think violates what's rational and fair, i will certainly try to correct it, though.

4) Do you ever question the power of logic?

no. it is within my definition of logic that it provides a framework for anything and everything. it is not always easy and sometimes nearly impossible to find a logical framework for some things, but it exists.

5) What makes you happy?

very funny

6) Would you rather be smart, intelligent or wise?

in order to answer this, im going to re-phrase these into practical, appearing intelligent, and experienced. id rather be practical, in that case... i have found that appearing intelligent is only occasionally useful, and experience is something anyone can get, while practicality is more of an innate method of thinking and more difficult to develop if you dont have much of it.
 

entropie

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 24, 2008
Messages
16,767
MBTI Type
entp
Enneagram
783
1) Do you thinkers believe in objectivity?
No.
2) Do you have values?
Yes and I watch them like a sunflower in a hurricane :D.
3) When do you feel like you need to defend your values?
They ain't open for debate.
4) Do you ever question the power of logic?
Logic has no power, logic is a concept. If you mean, if I question the power of people using logic then: yes. If they try to assess everything from a logical standpoint from the start, they might loose track of other Point of Views on the matter. I like to draw structure from the irrational and in the first moment seemingly unlogical. But that works only infrequently.
5) What makes you happy?
a challenge, unexplored frontiers, alcohol.. so on :D
6) Would you rather be smart, intelligent or wise?
wise.
 

Condor

New member
Joined
Aug 28, 2008
Messages
109
MBTI Type
ISTJ
I feel like there has been a lot of discussions about how feelers think. I don't understand why... it is a lot more mysterious that there are people who can think clearly and detach themselves from their values. They claim they are objective, even if no one even knows what objectivity truly means. Mysterious. So, some questions.. feel free to add your own questions.

1) Do you thinkers believe in objectivity?
2) Do you have values?
3) When do you feel like you need to defend your values?
4) Do you ever question the power of logic?
5) What makes you happy?
6) Would you rather be smart, intelligent or wise?

1) I believe objectivity is a requirement if rational thinking is to be accomplished. Thoughts need to be examined at their base level clearly and without feelings.

2) I have values. I strive to be dependable and rational.

3) I see no need to defend my values because they are mine, and I could care less about what others think of them.

4) Since logic is a step-by-step clear approach to any issue, problem or thought, it meshes well with how I feel about thinking. I do not question logic.

5) I am happy when I am free from the irrational thoughts and behavior of others.

6) I am intelligent, and would not have it any other way.

Anyway, that's what goes on inside of me.
 
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