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  1. #1
    Senor Membrane
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    Default What's it like to be a Thinker?

    I feel like there has been a lot of discussions about how feelers think. I don't understand why... it is a lot more mysterious that there are people who can think clearly and detach themselves from their values. They claim they are objective, even if no one even knows what objectivity truly means. Mysterious. So, some questions.. feel free to add your own questions.

    1) Do you thinkers believe in objectivity?
    2) Do you have values?
    3) When do you feel like you need to defend your values?
    4) Do you ever question the power of logic?
    5) What makes you happy?
    6) Would you rather be smart, intelligent or wise?

  2. #2
    Arcesso pulli gingerios! Eldanen's Avatar
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    1) I believe there is a shared reality consensus relating to the physical world. I think we can learn many things about how the universe works. My subjectivity relates to the ultimate reality. I don't think that it's possible to conceive of or experience it, but that we just all have shades of understanding concerning it. I personally have a lot of subjective experiences in my emotions and imagination, and I'm in my head the majority of the time daydreaming.

    2) I have things I like and don't like, but I wouldn't necessarily call those things values. I'm apt to switch these things at any time depending on which I feel is right for the moment. I have nothing that I really stick to, just for the purpose of "sticking to." If it makes sense, fine. If it doesn't, I trash it.

    3) Usually I feel the need to defend my ideologies whenever I get angry at the other person, or when I feel like having a romp with them in argument :P. A lot of the time I'll just shut my mouth though because I do have my reasons, yet they aren't the most easily explained to those outside my experience.

    4) Of course I question the power of Logic. It can do many things, but all-in-all: it's just a process. Without sufficient bits of data to work with, you're always going to come up with the wrong answer. Which is why I like to stick often to my intuitive perceptions of the world around me, and pay attention to the non-verbal relationships that subtly enhance my view.

    5) Novelty is what I'd say makes me happy. Also, having a good friend on my level to chat with. I enjoy creature comforts like sex a lot . I like big ideas, and deep ideas (as long as it's T depth and not F). Daydreaming is a crucial element to my existence. It's always been there and likely will always be there to keep me company.

    6) I choose intelligent over just "smart," because the word smart has superficial connotations when it comes to the mind. Intelligence is someone who has refined their way of viewing the world. Wisdom I'm not interested in as much, because I like to find my own way of doing things, rather than paying attention to sayings of old, etc. It's just more fun to pay attention to the more baser experiences of life. Wisdom's no fun! :P :P

  3. #3

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    1) Do you thinkers believe in objectivity? Could you possibly mean the word "subjectivity" here? Perhaps I just don't get the question. To think is in many ways just being objective. Taking the evaluation or perceptions outside of oneself. Not filtering through feelings or beliefs.
    That said I DO have subjective outlooks...I don't care for when my 8 year old daughter choses to fart in my vicinity. I have no objective way of looking at this...yet. Well..other than children up to sometimes 10 do not have a moral hedge to fall against when making decisions.
    She will stop finding this funny in a year or two.

    2) Do you have values? That is an interesting question and a good one to ask myself. I would have to say I do not have so much hard and fast values. I can see justification for many things people say are "wrong" as well as reasons not to do the things people say are "right"

    3) When do you feel like you need to defend your values? No

    4) Do you ever question the power of logic? SURE! I question everything! I also function much of the time by intuition ...at least before I reach the logic and analysis part of figuring life out. Often there are no details to arrange in order to make a logical conclusion...that drives me crazy. I am then reliant on only intuiton and my best guess. Not good enough.

    5) What makes you happy? Next question. I simply could not answer this. Plus I think happiness is a choice...not something that happens to a person.

    6) Would you rather be smart, intelligent or wise? Sure...although "wise" implies some feeling-ness. I am trying to mature that aspect of my personality. But I have to say I just am not there yet. I can not relate in a way that would be called "wisdom".
    I ultimately see no point to this question since we don't really chose to be smart or intelligent or wise? I would like to know another thinker's point of view on this.

  4. #4
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Do you thinkers believe in objectivity?

    Hmmm...I'm going to say yes. That said, I'm not sure that it's something that any human can perfectly achieve. Merely having this opinion puts me on the fringes of my discipline, though.

    Do you have values?

    I do, though I wouldn't be able to "name" them, or even describe what they are. They only manifest themselves when someone has done something that I feel is grossly offensive, or when someone does/says something that is particularly gauche. And even then the whole thing is curious to me because I never really think about what my values are, and am therefore surprised when they actually surface. Plus I think that I change my mind about certain values every so often.

    When do you feel the need to defend your values?

    Um...when they're challenged? When else would anyone feel the need to defend their values? It's not like people go around defending their values for fun, unless they're maybe doing it internally to work out/sort their values for themselves.

    Do you ever question the power of logic?

    Absolutely. In fact, I'm not entirely clear on what it even means to say that someone is "logical". In practice this usually ends up meaning that someone is willing to say something that's true in spite of whose feelings it might hurt. Otherwise, we don't have people going around all day talking in syllogisms. When I make decisions, it's never on the basis of any linear line of reasoning or proof of the sort that you would see in mathematics or formal logic.

    And now that I'm talking about it, I'm actually getting a little sick of seeing type descriptions that describe "thinkers" as people that reason in terms of "formal logic", because if that were the case, then why would any of them ever need to actually learn the rules of logic? They have to because formal logic is not a representation of the way that we think, and I think that it's a little naive to think and/or state that it is so.

    What makes you happy?

    I think that this is a circumstantial sort of thing, but if there were anything in the world that consistently makes me feel happy, I'd say that it's natural beauty. And this beauty can manifest itself in a text, in scenery, in art, in ideas, in anything. I know it when I see it.

    Would you rather be smart, intelligent or wise?

    Well I'd say that the ultimate one of those choices is wisdom. I already consider myself to be a fairly smart/intelligent person (if we're talking about natural or fundamental intelligence, the type that can't be improved with the addition of knowledge) so the next step would be to gain wisdom. And I think that one gains wisdom slowly but surely through the agglomeration of more knowledge, both about the world and about one's self.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

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  6. #6
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by disregard View Post
    The questions on this one are better and a little less encouraging of ridiculous stereotyping of one's self.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  7. #7
    mrs disregard's Avatar
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    Default

    Oh, I agree. But it's there for those interested.

  8. #8
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by disregard View Post
    Oh, I agree. But it's there for those interested.
    Aha, in that case thanks for the link .
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    1) Do you thinkers believe in objectivity?
    2) Do you have values?
    3) When do you feel like you need to defend your values?
    4) Do you ever question the power of logic?
    5) What makes you happy?
    6) Would you rather be smart, intelligent or wise?
    1. Objectivity in what sense? Believe in it as an ideal, a goal? Or that we can be truly detached? J/K I know you didn't know what you meant. I try to be objective if I'm discussing something impersonal, a mental exercise or such, and subjective if I'm dealing with a personal matter.
    2. Yes.
    3. Whenever they're up against the wall. They may be fewer, but I think the feeling involved is similar to the one Fs have.
    4. If there were anything better at getting to the nuts and bolts of something, we would know about it.
    5. Lots of things.
    6. Wise.

  10. #10
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    1) Do you thinkers believe in objectivity?
    Yes

    2) Do you have values?
    Sort of. Not in the traditional sense like morals. If something negative is backed with scientific evidence, I consider that solid.

    3) When do you feel like you need to defend your values?
    Not sure

    4) Do you ever question the power of logic?
    No

    5) What makes you happy?
    Kittens, rainbows, and glitter.

    6) Would you rather be smart, intelligent or wise?
    Wise

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