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  1. #21
    Emerging Tallulah's Avatar
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    1) Do you thinkers believe in objectivity? I believe in striving for objectivity, yes. I don't feel like my thinking is clear if I'm at the mercy of personal bias.

    2) Do you have values? Yes, but as booya said, you probably won't know what they are unless you're a close friend. I don't feel the need to spread my values far and wide, and I can be friends with people who have opposing values without getting all bent out of shape. It bothers me when people genuinely hate others for not sharing their values. To me, values are personal things, and everyone is entitled to his own. I tend to try and understand why another person would believe something that is the opposite of the conclusion I might have come to. I don't judge them as a terrible human being for not believing as I do.

    3) When do you feel like you need to defend your values? It just comes up. Usually I don't defend the value in general, just why I believe in it/have come to that conclusion.

    4) Do you ever question the power of logic? All the time. I always think there might be some piece of information I've missed.

    5) What makes you happy? I have no idea how to answer that.

    6) Would you rather be smart, intelligent or wise? Wise. There are a lot of smart people in the world that have no idea how to accomodate the ideas of others, or to adapt to the situation, rather than steamrolling over other people.

  2. #22
    Senior Member ZiL's Avatar
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    1) Do you thinkers believe in objectivity?
    Maybe not total objectivity, but I think that some are better at being more objective (taking the entire situation/set of factors into account) than others.

    2) Do you have values?
    For sure. But I understand there are value systems other than mine, and I generally try to understand them before dismissing them if they do not agree with mine.

    3) When do you feel like you need to defend your values?
    If I feel someone either does not understand me or does not understand something I value - when someone is acting out of misunderstanding; if what they're saying doesn't make sense to me. I get particularly reactive if I feel someone is attacking something I value or attacking me.

    4) Do you ever question the power of logic?
    I never really think about it...? I know a lot of things don't fit into boxes, and I'm fine with that. I believe there's probably a higher logic that we are not acquainted with, and that's fine too. I just work with what I've got and try to keep my mind open to other modes of acting or living that fit outside what we typically define as "logical."

    5) What makes you happy?
    Above all, having an exhilirating conversation.

    6) Would you rather be smart, intelligent or wise?
    I dunno, intelligent?
    ALL AROUND THE WORLD PEOPLE EATIN' GUMBO

  3. #23
    ThatGirl
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    1) Do you thinkers believe in objectivity?
    2) Do you have values?
    3) When do you feel like you need to defend your values?
    4) Do you ever question the power of logic?
    5) What makes you happy?
    6) Would you rather be smart, intelligent or wise?
    1) absolutley it is the core of reasoning

    2) Who doesnt, mine are complicated

    3) When people are forcing me into terrible circumstances due to their stupidity, lack of objectivity, ignorance, and feelings.

    4) Only when I am the only one who seems to understand it.

    5) I don't know

    6) if executed correctly there shouldnt be a difference

  4. #24
    Senior Member Fiver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZiL View Post
    1)
    5) What makes you happy?
    Above all, having an exhilirating conversation.
    +1

  5. #25
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    1) absolutley it is the core of reasoning
    I do believe in it too
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    I feel like there has been a lot of discussions about how feelers think. I don't understand why... it is a lot more mysterious that there are people who can think clearly and detach themselves from their values. They claim they are objective, even if no one even knows what objectivity truly means. Mysterious. So, some questions.. feel free to add your own questions.

    1) Do you thinkers believe in objectivity?
    2) Do you have values?
    3) When do you feel like you need to defend your values?
    4) Do you ever question the power of logic?
    5) What makes you happy?
    6) Would you rather be smart, intelligent or wise?
    What's it like to be a thinker? Annoying. You never know what your real emotion with something is, and you know less as you start to analyze it to find out. You fear not knowing what's going on, you're paranoid, you're insensitive, you're boring and distant alot.
    You distance from emotions to come to a rational, ego-less decision/judgement (the greater good, the system that works, etc), and then have to get your own share on the side too because you have needs too. But you can't seem to mix ratio with emotion.
    Your tendency to be stronger than your emotions is futile, yet you persist like a fool.
    But it's exciting too, because you get to see the big picture and design architectures in many ways, and be the one that will read the map to heaven, with a little help from his friends.
    You see something that's not efficient and you start boiling up solutions on how to make it perfect (thinkers/intuiters could invent the paperclip, the blender, espressomachines with automatic grinders, etc), and you get high on the idea's too...
    You like to build things, and sometimes you get melodramatic and build a housing/feeding complex for 3 mouses neglected by your housemate.

    1) I don't believe in the value of objectivity nor subjectivity -- I believe in differentiating between the extremes, and seeing both angles (like the + and - poles in materials, and how each affects the other), so a good 'formula', plan of execution can be made.
    2) Yes, and they are just as personal as yours, I just tend to rationalize them
    3) When people go too far
    4) Yes... because it's confined by the human mind. For example, the universe is infinite...
    5) 40mg's of citalopram no seriously? just conventional human needs... love, safety, self-fulfillment... we're really not that alien, you know. love and art, merged into one, that's what's heaven to me.
    6) Smart is for sensors, intelligent is relative, wise is when you can balance ratio, emotion, intuition (possibility) and experience.
    bruised and battered ENTJ sx/sp/so 8w9
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  7. #27
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    1) Do you thinkers believe in objectivity?
    I believe we can all know the world of external objects and the way they interact in an objective way i.e. that in my room right now there is a computer (external object whose existence we can all agree about), that if I press a button on my keyboard then I output some writing on the monitor, etc.

    2) Do you have values?
    I've got some, but I know they are completely arbitrary and personal.

    3) When do you feel like you need to defend your values?
    Almost never, with an exception: when the life or well-being of myself or somebody I care about is at stake. I would classify this as a primal, instinctual reaction, rather than something stemming from the need to defend my values.

    4) Do you ever question the power of logic?
    No, but I do believe it should only be used where(and when) it belongs.

    5) What makes you happy?
    Many things. Outdoor activities, hanging out with my girlfriend, reading/studying complex subjects, making money, dancing.

    6) Would you rather be smart, intelligent or wise?
    Being wise would contribute the most to my happiness, definitely.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  8. #28
    sophiloist Kaizer's Avatar
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    1) Do you thinkers believe in objectivity?

    Yes, though I still evaluate the purity of it and its application to have a measure of its relevance, cause once involved, subjectivity enters the equation.

    2) Do you have values?

    Yes and hopefully universal & hence or otherwise timeless ones

    3) When do you feel like you need to defend your values?

    If someone accuses me of something that fundamentally, to any degree, violates those principles and values.

    4) Do you ever question the power of logic?

    Yes. It isn't a steel framework thats flawless per se & it is reality that injects doubt and if cocksure ignorance sets in, then not questioning the logic behind and argument or construct and hence its 'power' seems less than honest (yet another 'value'). Yet sometimes ignoring flawed logic can be a good thing.... role relief if you may.

    5) What makes you happy?

    Ultimately, if I have to identify as completely & accurately as possible, I'd say harmony and effortless wholesomeness.... basically the true expression of values in reality and the fruits of it. The flawless 'beauty' of harmony. I must point out though that I make a distinction between whats more momentary i.e. 'joy', versus whats durable, sustainable and reliable i.e. 'happiness'.

    6) Would you rather be smart, intelligent or wise?

    wise. wisdom makes for a greater possibility for a more complete, durable and sustainable whole.
    The answer must be in the attempt
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