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  1. #11
    Senior Member Fiver's Avatar
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    1) Do you thinkers believe in objectivity?
    Yes. But as an ideal. I try to be objective about how objective I actually am. You could say objectivity is one of my values.

    2) Do you have values?
    Yes. But I do not compare them to other people or feel dissonance if other people do not approve of my values.


    When do you feel you need to defend your values?
    See above.

    4) Do you ever question the power of logic?
    No. I see it as a very useful ideal. However, as a practical matter I can see that making what I considered the logical decision with respect to life's crossroads may not have always led to the most successful course. For example, in choosing my major I went with something practical, not something that I was passionate about.

    5) What makes you happy?
    Happiness is a choice.

    6) Would you rather be smart, intelligent or wise?
    Wise.

  2. #12
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    1) Do you thinkers believe in objectivity?
    Yes, but humans are not capable of achieving it.

    2) Do you have values?
    Of course, who doesn't?

    3) When do you feel like you need to defend your values?
    When someone threatens them

    4) Do you ever question the power of logic?
    No

    5) What makes you happy?
    This is too vague to answer.

    6) Would you rather be smart, intelligent or wise?
    You have to define these before I can answer this.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  3. #13
    Member Airius's Avatar
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    1) Do you thinkers believe in objectivity?
    Yes.


    2) Do you have values?
    Sure.


    3) When do you feel like you need to defend your values?
    Everyone's views are different. Live and let live.


    4) Do you ever question the power of logic?
    What?


    5) What makes you happy?
    Peace and discovering.


    6) Would you rather be smart, intelligent or wise?
    Wise.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    1) Do you thinkers believe in objectivity?
    Yes, I "believe" in facts.
    2) Do you have values?
    yes
    3) When do you feel like you need to defend your values?
    I guess sometimes with people I am close to. I don't make myself emotionally vulnerable to anyone else. When someone I'm close to stomps on my values I feel betrayed because I entrusted them with a part of me that I am not comfortable with showing to just anyone
    4) Do you ever question the power of logic?
    It's a powerful instrument for understanding and accuracy. The trouble is most people don't want the truth. They want to feel good. So unfortunately it's not a very powerful tool for compelling people.
    Then there's efficiency. It's not very expedient for getting things done.
    5) What makes you happy?
    Not having to worry about logistics, intellectual revelations, being outside on a nice day and not being harassed by bums, traveling, looking forward to something, reading a good book, being witty/creative, brainstorming
    6) Would you rather be smart, intelligent or wise?
    wise
    I don't wanna!

  5. #15
    Senior Member Simplexity's Avatar
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    1) Do you believe in objectivity?

    I believe objectivity is flexible and can be applied to the situation. I think of it sort of as a framework, and I have many of those that I go by. True objectivity is impossible so I figure that if I spin some of my subjective beliefs and reference objective standards to support them, then I am set. Being too stringent and insisting upon *true* objectivity is something that will just make you retreat further into an idealized world, it won't help you relate with others either. Most people shockingly discard objectivity and have no sense of what it means or at least they don't acknowledge it when its presented to them. Either that or they can't sense the distinctions between both well enough.


    2) Do you have values?

    I wouldn't say their malleable but I like to consider them somewhat adjustable according to the situation. I know thats going to send off a red flag to the more feeling inclined but to me it doesn't make sense to endlessly ponder just what it is I feel strongly about and create sort of a mandate on the way I will act. I rely on my true kindheartedness and reasonabilty( In the sense that I don't consciously try and offend or hurt others) to be the backbone of my values. I think the biggest reason is I need to have some logical order in my decisions and strong values about a wide number of things serve more as a hindrance than a guide IMHO.


    3) When do you feel like you need to defend your values?

    My values are pretty reserved and internalized. They're only observable in the rare instance that someone combines stupidity, an overbearing tendency, certainty, and encroaches on something that I feel deeply about or is important to me.


    4) Do you ever question the power of logic?

    Not really. I think theres a distinction that has to be made because I'm not one that believes in absolute reductionist logic. That is extremely rigid. I like to use it more as a tool that can apply to any situation and can be called upon on a whim.


    5) What makes you happy?

    When I'm really curious about something.


    6) Would you rather be smart, intelligent or wise?

    I would say smart. In my mind that implies more of a trickster mentality which is something similar to what I posses. Wise is too sage like, I'm not one for patiently giving little snippets of knowledge to those who ask for it, I hate little riddles and elaborate messages.
    Last edited by Simplexity; 11-09-2008 at 07:52 AM.
    My cold, snide, intellectual life is just a veneer, behind which lies the plywood of loneliness.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Kora's Avatar
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    1) Do you thinkers believe in objectivity?
    Objectivity is so subjective... Yet I'd rather stuck to what it's more objective.

    2) Do you have values?
    Sure. They're not too many, but yet they're important to me, because I find them quite logical.

    3) When do you feel like you need to defend your values?
    When they're violated. I can be really raw and childish about it.

    4) Do you ever question the power of logic?
    I do believe in logic, but it can be questionable too. Truth is not mathematical.

    5) What makes you happy?
    Doing things my own way.

    6) Would you rather be smart, intelligent or wise?
    Intelligent.
    5w4 - Idiosyncratic/Leisurely/Dramatic
    It's the devil's way now.

  7. #17
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    What's it like being a thinker? Lousy

    1) Do you thinkers believe in objectivity?
    That's a qualification for Ts no?
    2) Do you have values?
    Who doesn't? Even an AI system has a table of values.
    3) When do you feel like you need to defend your values?
    When others are twisting values around to support their irrational believes
    4) Do you ever question the power of logic?
    Yes, there are cases where logic fails. People aren't predictable like machines.
    5) What makes you happy?
    Doing fun stuff!
    6) Would you rather be smart, intelligent or wise?
    intelligence, for street smart and knowledge can be learnt. Intelligence is inborn.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Grayscale's Avatar
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    1) Do you thinkers believe in objectivity?

    I don't "believe" in objectivity, I know true objectivity is the foundation of making the most rational decisions, so I try to be as objective as possible. I don't think anyone can ever by entirely objective, or should be... if we could boil everything down to math, we'd have a sure-fire way of approaching anything, but personal preference must be weighed into most things at some point. outside of that requirement, logical objectivity is best.

    2) Do you have values?

    yes, but they come last... see #1

    3) When do you feel like you need to defend your values?

    im not sure what you mean... "defend"? nobody can really do anything to my values, their an intangible entity that exists in my mind.

    if i see something that i think violates what's rational and fair, i will certainly try to correct it, though.

    4) Do you ever question the power of logic?

    no. it is within my definition of logic that it provides a framework for anything and everything. it is not always easy and sometimes nearly impossible to find a logical framework for some things, but it exists.

    5) What makes you happy?

    very funny

    6) Would you rather be smart, intelligent or wise?

    in order to answer this, im going to re-phrase these into practical, appearing intelligent, and experienced. id rather be practical, in that case... i have found that appearing intelligent is only occasionally useful, and experience is something anyone can get, while practicality is more of an innate method of thinking and more difficult to develop if you dont have much of it.

  9. #19
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    1) Do you thinkers believe in objectivity?
    No.
    2) Do you have values?
    Yes and I watch them like a sunflower in a hurricane .
    3) When do you feel like you need to defend your values?
    They ain't open for debate.
    4) Do you ever question the power of logic?
    Logic has no power, logic is a concept. If you mean, if I question the power of people using logic then: yes. If they try to assess everything from a logical standpoint from the start, they might loose track of other Point of Views on the matter. I like to draw structure from the irrational and in the first moment seemingly unlogical. But that works only infrequently.
    5) What makes you happy?
    a challenge, unexplored frontiers, alcohol.. so on
    6) Would you rather be smart, intelligent or wise?
    wise.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    I feel like there has been a lot of discussions about how feelers think. I don't understand why... it is a lot more mysterious that there are people who can think clearly and detach themselves from their values. They claim they are objective, even if no one even knows what objectivity truly means. Mysterious. So, some questions.. feel free to add your own questions.

    1) Do you thinkers believe in objectivity?
    2) Do you have values?
    3) When do you feel like you need to defend your values?
    4) Do you ever question the power of logic?
    5) What makes you happy?
    6) Would you rather be smart, intelligent or wise?
    1) I believe objectivity is a requirement if rational thinking is to be accomplished. Thoughts need to be examined at their base level clearly and without feelings.

    2) I have values. I strive to be dependable and rational.

    3) I see no need to defend my values because they are mine, and I could care less about what others think of them.

    4) Since logic is a step-by-step clear approach to any issue, problem or thought, it meshes well with how I feel about thinking. I do not question logic.

    5) I am happy when I am free from the irrational thoughts and behavior of others.

    6) I am intelligent, and would not have it any other way.

    Anyway, that's what goes on inside of me.
    ...doesn't work or play well with others...

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