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  1. #71
    Senior Member wedekit's Avatar
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    I would NEVER argue that fine art is geared towards N types. I think if any sort of division were to be made, it would be in the types of art S's and N's tend to engage in.

    For example, representational art seems geared more towards sensors in that it is characterized by precise detail in shape, chiaroscuro, and proportion. I would NEVER imagine being able to do anything like that, though I'm sure there are N's that can and do. In fact, I admire people who can more than I can put into words.

    I think that there are apparent N "movements" in art; particularly the movements that are a sort of protest against the academic art style that used to be considered "superior". Impressionism comes to mind.

    Picasso would be an interesting person to type, in my opinion. He was amazing at both cubism (which seems to have a more "N" flavor) and representational art (his First Communion, for example).

    I'm not an artist, an art/art history major, or anything like that. I am actually taking my first Art class ("Introduction to the Visual Arts") ever this semester in college, and I have been soaking it all up. It is much more interesting than I ever imagined. This is all just my interpretation of what I've learned.
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  2. #72
    soft and silky sarah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wedekit View Post
    I would NEVER argue that fine art is geared towards N types. I think if any sort of division were to be made, it would be in the types of art S's and N's tend to engage in.

    For example, representational art seems geared more towards sensors in that it is characterized by precise detail in shape, chiaroscuro, and proportion. I would NEVER imagine being able to do anything like that, though I'm sure there are N's that can and do. In fact, I admire people who can more than I can put into words.

    I think that there are apparent N "movements" in art; particularly the movements that are a sort of protest against the academic art style that used to be considered "superior". Impressionism comes to mind.

    Picasso would be an interesting person to type, in my opinion. He was amazing at both cubism (which seems to have a more "N" flavor) and representational art (his First Communion, for example).

    I'm not an artist, an art/art history major, or anything like that. I am actually taking my first Art class ("Introduction to the Visual Arts") ever this semester in college, and I have been soaking it all up. It is much more interesting than I ever imagined. This is all just my interpretation of what I've learned.
    Hm...... I don't know if this was your point, but I can't say I agree with the idea that N = change and fresh ideas and S = establishment and purely representational art. Anyone who's fed up with the status quo can produce something original. for what it's worth, Artisans (SPs) tend to get bored very easily with the establishment and the status quo. And they like to make bold statements.

    Picasso seems to me to have been a stereotypical SP. And the master of Impressionism himself (Claude Monet) said once that the only two things he cared about in this world was his massive garden and painting the effects of light on surfaces. Oh yeah, and he liked to decorate his house. Hardly a man full of abstract ideas.


    Sarah
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  3. #73
    Senior Member wedekit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarah View Post
    Hm...... I don't know if this was your point, but I can't say I agree with the idea that N = change and fresh ideas and S = establishment and purely representational art. Anyone who's fed up with the status quo can produce something original. for what it's worth, Artisans (SPs) tend to get bored very easily with the establishment and the status quo. And they like to make bold statements.

    Picasso seems to me to have been a stereotypical SP. And the master of Impressionism himself (Claude Monet) said once that the only two things he cared about in this world was his massive garden and painting the effects of light on surfaces. Oh yeah, and he liked to decorate his house. Hardly a man full of abstract ideas.


    Sarah
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    Well, I wouldn't say "purely" for any type, because there are always exceptions. I think it would be unwise of me to ever underestimate the creativity of any individual person based on their type. My post was mainly based on what we could hypothetically say about art and type.

    Like I said in my OP, representational art SEEMS more geared towards sensors by definition, though I wouldn't limit it to sensors only. Attention to details is fundamental to representational art, which is not natural to those with a strong N preference. Byzantine art was considered representational back in the day, and it for sure is not as "representational" as art can get in today's world.

    I think it is also interesting to view art as a way to enhance yourself as a person. Maybe Picasso was a strong sensor that developed his own intuitive function by creating his own style of art?

    If you believe that type has any kind of validity, I don't see how you can stop yourself from exploring how type could influence a person's personal art preferences. I'm sure the discussion could be more engaging if we were to talk about the functions (Se, Si, Ne, and Ni) in terms of art, but I would have to ponder that some more.

    I think what was possibly throwing you off in my previous post is that I speak in "maybes" and hypothetical statements. I'm not really trying to argue one way or another; I argue for the possibility.

    Edit: Since you are probably more knowledgeable than me, I would be interested in hearing your interpretation of the type of other artists if you ever feel up for it!
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  4. #74
    soft and silky sarah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wedekit View Post
    Well, I wouldn't say "purely" for any type, because there are always exceptions. I think it would be unwise of me to ever underestimate the creativity of any individual person based on their type. My post was mainly based on what we could hypothetically say about art and type.

    Like I said in my OP, representational art SEEMS more geared towards sensors by definition, though I wouldn't limit it to sensors only. Attention to details is fundamental to representational art, which is not natural to those with a strong N preference. Byzantine art was considered representational back in the day, and it for sure is not as "representational" as art can get in today's world.

    I think it is also interesting to view art as a way to enhance yourself as a person. Maybe Picasso was a strong sensor that developed his own intuitive function by creating his own style of art?

    Well, here's the way I see function development: Can you get yourself dressed in the morning? Can you cook? Drive a car? Use hand tools or operate simple appliances? Paint a wall? Go cross-country skiing? Balance on one foot? Go grocery shopping? Ride a bike? Walk down the street without running into things? All those activities and much more require you use of your sensing function. You simply can't do them if you don't use your sensing function. I know of nobody who prefers intuition who can not function in daily life, so they all must be using sensing to some degree. Some people who prefer intuition even train themselves to get good at skills that require heavy use of sensing. Obviously, people can access both, which means that people who prefer sensing can and do use their intuition function just as easily as the intuitives use sensing.

    (By the way, I know you weren't trying to say that if you prefer intuition, you have access to both your sensing and intuition functions, but if you prefer sensing you don't have access at all to any form of intuition. It's too bad that a lot of type enthusiasts have chosen to believe that, and it's THAT attitude that prompted me to write my original post, but I wasn't lumping you into that category.)

    The way I've experienced the development of my lesser preferred functions is that they simply develop in me regardless of whether I notice anything happening at the time or not, but that at some point, if I want to use them effectively instead of clumsily, I have to choose to trust them enough to see value in developing them further and allowing them to guide my behavior. It's choosing to trust your lesser-preferred functions that's hard, but at some point, we all need to take risks.

    I would imagine that pretty much every artist uses his or her intuition, including all the artists who prefer Sensing. I've experienced intuition in the form of pictures that all of a sudden pop in my mind fully-formed of what I want things to look like or be like in the future and how I want to say things visually (often symbolically), and yet I know that I rely on sensing to inform me for most of what I do normally, and I trust in my own flexibility and awareness of what's happening in the here-and-now to be able to change that vision if I see a need to, as I work with the media. I haven't learned to to trust my intuition like I trust my sensing, but I'm working on trying to understand how they can be used in tandem for even better results. This is what I'm currently reading right now:

    Cognitive Processes and Tandem Dynamics

    I love the idea of Se and Ni working in tandem, and I'm trying to see ways I can consciously use both together in my own art Whoohooo!

    Quote Originally Posted by wedekit View Post
    If you believe that type has any kind of validity, I don't see how you can stop yourself from exploring how type could influence a person's personal art preferences. I'm sure the discussion could be more engaging if we were to talk about the functions (Se, Si, Ne, and Ni) in terms of art, but I would have to ponder that some more.
    Yeah, I think that would be a great topic for discussion. Unfortunately at this point I'm not at all certain I know which function I'm actually looking at with regards to other people's behavior. I'm more confident of my own behavior because I can sense when I'm tuning out of what is to ponder what could be, if you know what I mean.

    Quote Originally Posted by wedekit View Post
    I think what was possibly throwing you off in my previous post is that I speak in "maybes" and hypothetical statements. I'm not really trying to argue one way or another; I argue for the possibility.
    I totally understand.

    Sarah
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  5. #75
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    I'm not particularly good at the fine arts, nor am I very discerning about their appreciation in a technical sense, so I don't really think of Ns as being fine artists moreso than Ss. I guess if anything, I would think of Se/Ne and Fi as being artistic functions.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
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