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  1. #31
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarah View Post
    Like I said, I think it's better not to name individuals on this forum in order to highlight both them and their posts as bad examples. Tends to create friction.
    Hopefully they'll see this thread and gain a bit of a new perspective.

    Sarah
    ISFP
    I guess your Federal Bureau of Intimacy has finally arrived to clean this forum of all opinions
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  2. #32
    soft and silky sarah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyrielle View Post
    Sarah, you are full of awesome.





    Thank you...

    Sarah

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    I guess your Federal Bureau of Intimacy has finally arrived to clean this forum of all opinions
    Hands behind your back, son.

  4. #34
    Intriguing.... Quinlan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick View Post
    ZOMG!?!>?!?!?!?

    I wrote that I had a biased view, as in a skewed one, because having read primarily N-type authors I mistakenly projected that *all* fiction writers tended to be N-types.



    I wasn't being biased AGAINST S-TYPES!!!

    Also, I wrote required, (which I hesitated to), because I was following suit with Sarah's jargon, (in her title).

    Though, ultimately, it was a foolish mistake for me to erroneously use that word, and I am sorry if I offended you.


    Fair enough, I wasn't offended myself just felt that it was inappropriate in this particular thread, any other thread and I wouldn't have given it a second thought.

    because having read primarily N-type authors I mistakenly projected that *all* fiction writers tended to be N-types.
    This form of thinking is where all these misconceptions come from I believe. Just highlights how difficult it can be to try and see from another types perspective.

  5. #35
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    misconception that word somehow, I find less artsy fartsy
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  6. #36
    soft and silky sarah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    Intuition and Sensing has nothing to do with the ability to produce art... be it visual art or written. All it affects is the direction to your art. An N artist will produce art of a different style than a S artist.

    There's also different sorts of creativity and intelligence. To be able to condense ideas and to produce art on paper requires one to visualize the details. The translation of thought into reality is no less creative than the original idea.

    Thank you Sarah for bringing this up.
    You're welcome! I would say that the substance of a person's art tends to reflect whatever it is they spend a lot of their time thinking about and valuing, so someone who has a preference for intuition will probably be thinking about certain topics more often and in a different kind of way than those of us who prefer sensing. Both types can and do produce deep, thought-provoking art about the things/ideas they care most about.

    I guess you could say that "shallow" art is produced by people who are never introspective and who are only interested in making money, but then, those people tend not to waste their time making art when there are other, more profitable ways of making a buck.

    Sarah
    ISFP

  7. #37
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    yeah, well pretend I am not there, I do that all the time
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  8. #38
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan View Post
    Fair enough, I wasn't offended myself just felt that it was inappropriate in this particular thread, any other thread and I wouldn't have given it a second thought.

    This form of thinking is where all these misconceptions come from I believe. Just highlights how difficult it can be to try and see from another types perspective.
    Ugh, it is precisely this stuff that makes me think typology is a bunch of cow feces.

    I don't go around life typing other individuals,and my main objective is to *relate* to others, not segregate from them.

    I do not suffer from MBTI tunnel vision and I feel really bad for people who do.
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  9. #39
    Senior Member Maabus1999's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarah View Post
    Okay, people, time for a reality check here....

    I’ve noticed a number of comments posted here and there on this list about art and type preferences, and since a few of these comments are on private lists that I can’t contribute to, I’d like to respond to them here. It really disturbs me that so many people here have brainwashed themselves into believing you have to have a preference for intuition in order to produce fine art. I feel angry at the way these people dismiss “Sensors” as being not capable of produce anything of artistic value. One of the moderators here writes that she thinks Sensors are only capable of pushing things around on paper or canvas aimlessly, as though having a preference for Sensing means having limited brains, no vision for what we want to do with our time, and no beliefs worth promoting. Another person writes in a private forum that some Sensors “allegedly” see themselves as creative and artistic, as if those of us who do believe we have those qualities might be just kidding ourselves. I’m not sure where this idea originated from. Perhaps it’s because Isabel Myers wasn’t very specific or careful when she equated the word “creative” with N. I don’t know. At any rate, because I’ve created fine art myself (though I don’t rely on it for a living), and have spent years both in college-level art classes around plenty of other fine artists, and have spent lots of time around local professional artists in my city, it seems obvious to me that not only are a number of people who prefer Sensing producing high quality fine art all the time, every day, but… you really need to develop both processes in yourself in order to make something of high quality that will have a lot of visual and psychological impact on others.

    The act of creating tangible visual art requires you to be sensitive to detail and keenly aware of what your tools can do. If you want to say something that will be visually arresting, thought-provoking, and memorable, you need to learn technique. You also need to explore the limits of the tools you’re working with. People who aren’t interested in learning technique and paying attention to visual form, balance, contrast and details tend to produce amateurish-looking art that doesn’t capture and hold people’s attention, and the visual message gets lost. (From what I’ve noticed, if these people are lucky enough to find an artists’ co-op or gallery wiling to display their art, they tend to write these loooong artists descriptions, but they also tend to be disappointed by the lukewarm reaction they’re getting from visitors.) The thing is, anyone who wants to learn how to use tools effectively can do if they have the willingness to learn and the ability and drive to spend lots of hours tinkering around with the tools. It also seems obvious to me that you need to be introspective in order to produce art that has something of substance to it. This is ALSO something that anyone, regardless of their type preferences, can do if they are willing to take some time out every day to contemplate what they think is worth valuing and saying, and why they believe it has value, and how they can express that directly visually (as with representational art) or through the use of symbolic color or form. Sensing and Intuition work nicely hand in hand for every artist who is serious about creating something of value that will touch people’s minds and hearts. It also seems obvious that the works of art most beloved by people all over the world (the kind people pay good money to see exhibits of in museums) tend to be the sort that combines keen sensory awareness and quality technique with an equally-as-keen introspection and awareness of something worth valuing – something that gives the viewer a visual message worth paying attention to.


    Since joining this list in September, I’ve tried my best to NOT get caught up in arguments that smack of type bias, because I hate feeling like I have to defend my preferences against insults on a daily basis. But this particular bias against Sensors and art strikes deeply at the heart of who I am. I can’t imagine NOT being obsessed with creating visual imagery that talks to viewers about what I value. It’s an essential part of who I am, and it always has been. I’m truly baffled that so manny people have been brainwashed (?) into believing that “N” equals creativity, when every day I see people who obviously prefer Sensing thinking up innovative, fresh ideas that work to improve real life situations, as well as those who love to make memorable visual statements about what they believe is worth valuing. It really makes me want to ask those who perpetrate the bias, ”What planet do you live on? Because you and I don’t seem to be living in the same world.”

    At any rate, because of this, I’d like propose a new way of looking about art and creativity: Suppose for a second that it has nothing to do with either S or N specifically, and that creativity can simply be defined as the drive and ability to initiate positive change. This drive can be the result of feeling dissatisfied or restless with the status-quo. Or, it can be the result of noticing patterns and connecting ideas together to form a meta-perspective that will solve a problem either here-and-now or in the future. No matter how you define it, it seems to be about noticing a need for change and going about finding ways of implementing that change. This is something that is not related to any one set of type preferences.

    It does seem obvious that creative people – the ones who are most comfortable acting on their drive to initiate positive change—tend to be people who are comfortable living outside their comfort ranges. I would guess that they tend to be people who not only have an interest in developing their lesser-preferred cognitive functions, but that they welcome opportunities to learn, period. So it’s no wonder that when we see work by an artist whose technical virtuosity is astounding AND the message behind his or her art very thought-provoking or moving, it’s not going to be easy to correctly type that artist, unless you’re just into what I call “vanity typing “ – which is, convincing yourself that everyone whose life or whose work you admire has preferences just like your own.

    I really hope someday to see an end to the constant belittling of the capabilities of those of us who prefer Sensing. It would thrill me to see more people on this list truly understanding that everyone uses both sensing and intuition, and that everyone is capable of pursuing every activity that interests them and that all human beings are capable of, including acting on the basic human drive to initiate positive change, and to create visual works of art.

    Thanks for listening. I welcome thoughtful comments. (Insults, not so much...)


    Sarah
    ISFP
    I agree to the point that SP's are called the Artisans for a reason. N's just may make more abstract art that no one but themselves understand

  10. #40
    Senior Member kuranes's Avatar
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    The only thing I've ever heard on the matter is that being a musician favors Sensors, because they have better "muscle memory" ( hand to eye coordination ? ). Whether that's true or not, i couldn't say.

    As Sarah said, one must learn to execute fine points with the tools, and so this might favor Sensors for "execution of concept". This would imply that Intuitives might excel more at the "origination of concept", if in fact the first part was true. I would guess that good art is created by all kinds of people, including those who have both of these qualities, well balanced in themselves, in addition to others.

    See my thread on different types of creativity.
    "The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them that they are being attacked and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."
    Reichsfuhrer Herman Goering at the Nuremburg trials.

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