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  1. #61
    Senior Member Kora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grayscale View Post
    when we were growing up there was never any sort of awkwardness between him and any of his other male friends and myself. it was so long ago its hard to say for sure, but i remember him expressing physical attraction towards women on a few occasions... he was always a little fruity but if anything i considered him a lucky guy to have so many female friends. i just wondered if he had really been hiding a physical attraction towards men or if he psychologically created that due to his relation to females.
    Maybe he faked his attraction to females. A gay boy in my school was always telling 'heterosexual' jokes, yet he couldn't deceive my gaydar (well, and he told me a few months ago).
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  2. #62
    Senior Member Grayscale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kora View Post
    Maybe he faked his attraction to females. A gay boy in my school was always telling 'heterosexual' jokes, yet he couldn't deceive my gaydar (well, and he told me a few months ago).
    i understand the possibility of that, but it's pretty difficult to be entirely consistent... body language, tone of voice, facial expression, etc. it is something only the best actors can do. fact of the matter is, i was always aware that he was a bit effeminate, but i never saw a single sign of underlying attraction to men.

    this is not really about him, though, it just brings up a bigger question, about how much of our sexuality is inherent and how much is decided upon... consciously or subconsciously. of course i have heard many homosexuals say it is entirely inherent, but i think that is just a conditioned response to the insinuation that there is something wrong with it. if we hadn't started from that concept, i wonder if that would be different.

  3. #63
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grayscale View Post
    this is not really about him, though, it just brings up a bigger question, about how much of our sexuality is inherent and how much is decided upon... consciously or subconsciously. of course i have heard many homosexuals say it is entirely inherent, but i think that is just a conditioned response to the insinuation that there is something wrong with it. if we hadn't started from that concept, i wonder if that would be different.
    I agree that it's difficult to pinpoint where such things come from. The problem is that all of life is a big feedback loop, and whatever sets these things off happens early and quietly, so it's hard to tell what actually instigated everything. Our choices and the way we choose to approach a situation and what perceptions we buy into also impact where things go. You just can't set up a nice clean chain of cause and effect.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #64
    Senior Member Kora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grayscale View Post
    i understand the possibility of that, but it's pretty difficult to be entirely consistent... body language, tone of voice, facial expression, etc. it is something only the best actors can do. fact of the matter is, i was always aware that he was a bit effeminate, but i never saw a single sign of underlying attraction to men.

    this is not really about him, though, it just brings up a bigger question, about how much of our sexuality is inherent and how much is decided upon... consciously or subconsciously. of course i have heard many homosexuals say it is entirely inherent, but i think that is just a conditioned response to the insinuation that there is something wrong with it. if we hadn't started from that concept, i wonder if that would be different.
    I see. Such an interesting case, anyway.

    On the issue I think if not entirely, it has a very important genetical factor. If not, why some kids at a very young age feel already attracted to the same genre?
    And then there's the option that we're all bisexual, since it's love for the other person what really matters and all the stuff.
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  5. #65
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    You just can't set up a nice clean chain of cause and effect.
    It gets really hard when you include that the decisions we make actually cause our preferences to change. That is, if you decide you like rock music because someone asks if you do, you'll actually come to like rock music.

    When everything, including the things that make us "us" are so subjectively influenced, it's hard to say anything about cause and effect.

    (In this case, it is clearer if you say "how do you feel about gays" before you have a decision. After, your actual preference will shift depending on how you answered. It doesn't even take someone else's opinion to influence you! And of course, if you have both, well... )

  6. #66
    Senior Member millerm277's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anii View Post
    What about two buddies putting an empty seat between them at the cinema? How pathetic is that? As if the rest of us cinema-goers even care.
    That is pathetic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    You should study instinctive male urinal etiquette, it's definitely along the same lines.
    Different. That's more because I don't really have a desire to be close to someone else when using the bathroom, and prefer more privacy. Why WOULD I want to be "closer" to them? Here's a comparison...imagine, the ladies room is missing all the doors/walls around the toilets. Would you choose to use the toilet right next to someone else, or the one further away, if you have the choice?
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  7. #67
    Senior Member Chris_in_Orbit's Avatar
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    Well this comes down to the flaw in bathroom design. why the hell are the urinals so close to each other??

    A better question is why does Jennifer know about how guy bathroom mechanics work?

  8. #68
    Senior Member ENTJ Extraordinaire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kora View Post
    And then there's the option that we're all bisexual, since it's love for the other person what really matters and all the stuff.
    this makes most sense in my mind, that we all have a genetic predisposition to be bisexual, just because we can find love to anyone [i think its very important to remember there is a VERY large difference between sexual attraction and LOVE]

    however, that leads only to the fact that we are taught by our parents and our upbringings to determine our sexuality. which i think is something that is surprisingly hard to not do.

    *fact* - i have 5 sisters, and 1 brother.
    *fact* - i am straight...but not entirely :P theres room for variation at times
    *fact* - i believe that it was growing up around girls that has made me quite effeminate, and a Metrosexual.
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  9. #69
    Senior Member wedekit's Avatar
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    I'm more on the androgynous side when it comes to feminine and masculine. I tend to serve as a bridge between the genders to male and female friends alike, but I have way more girls for friends. I believe that girls treat me just like "one of the girls", though I'm not entirely sure what that means.

    My best friend (ENFP) doesn't get along that well with other girls, but I think I work out great for her as a friend because I'm not a girl, but I tend to have the same kind of bond she would get with one; just with less drama.
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  10. #70
    Senior Member Kora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ENTJ Extraordinaire View Post
    however, that leads only to the fact that we are taught by our parents and our upbringings to determine our sexuality. which i think is something that is surprisingly hard to not do.
    Yes, that's it what I meant. Take a look at the Greeks... Homosexuality was 'in' at those times. And some tribes have homosexual rites.
    In the end, we want to have a soul/mind/heart-mate, and sex can be good with both genders. Maybe we're born with some predisposition to homosexuality or heterosexuality, besides 'basical' bisexuality, but I think that we're greatly influenced by society.
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