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  1. #21
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    From the other side here.

    Female, one of my best friends is a gay male. I love him to bits, and am unusually demonstrative with him (more so than with my girl-friends). He doesn't like very feminine gay guys ("flaming homos") and neither do I... actually, we both don't really like extremely (stereotypically) feminine people - gay or not. So I doubt that I would ever have a gay buddy go "shopping" with me for clothes. But BFF and I are very into the same things - we have the same taste in movies, books, music, coffee etc. So we have a tonne of common ground.

    He just... "gets" me. I think of him as being very much more open-minded than most guys, with no homophobia (also a plus) and a lot less stereotypically-minded. We hold discussions where we can agree to disagree, which is pretty often considering that we have very different political views. His feelings don't get hurt when I say that I disagree. He is awesome, and has a similar absurdist sense of humour. I'm not sure if the reason why we connect is so much that he is gay and I am female, more so than because he is himself and I am myself.

    All I know is that sexual attraction is completely not a factor. I could (and would) hug him without worry of it being misconstrued. I feel completely secure in our friendship, and I know exactly where I stand - and he knows where he stands with me. I also know that I'll always be there for him, and vice versa.

  2. #22
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ENTJ Extraordinaire View Post
    *sigh* this applies for any relationship. beyond anything its nice to have a level of "we could do this...but we won't...because we have enough control"

    i know it sounds like a very ENTJ thing to say, but hey...isn't it true?
    I'm not sure what you're talking about exactly or what direction you are going.

    However, yes, it's a VERY *J* thing to say.

    It's much harder for P's.

    Because it feels wrong to ignore the input signals. The instinctive solution is to examine all the current stimulation coming in and flex and conform to what the perceived in herent truth in the situation is.

    To constantly impose some sort of CONTROL over top the situation and just make it what you want it to be without regarding for the inherent truth of it leaves me feeling blind and detached from reality and thus "false."

    Think about it like a block of grantie a J and P are trying to sculpt. You figure out what you want to sculpt and force the granite block to your will, imposing that form onto it. My instinct is instead to find the shape already waiting within the form of the stone and release it. Sometimes the shape is not much there or things are ambiguous, hence in those situations I can exert my influence to chnge things; but I feel like I'm a vandal or a violator if I start imposing my own desires willy-nilly over the things around me, if I want to be "true" I need to perceive inherent truth and then bring it out.

    Now apply that to relationships.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  3. #23
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nonsequitur View Post
    From the other side here.

    Female, one of my best friends is a gay male. I love him to bits, and am usually demonstrative with him (more so than with my girl-friends). He doesn't like very feminine gay guys ("flaming homos") and neither do I... actually, we both don't really like extremely (stereotypically) feminine people - gay or not. So I doubt that I would ever have a gay buddy go "shopping" with me for clothes. But BFF and I are very into the same things - we have the same taste in movies, books, music, coffee etc. So we have a tonne of common ground.

    He just... "gets" me. I think of him as being very much more open-minded than most guys, with no homophobia (also a plus) and a lot less stereotypically-minded. We hold discussions where we can agree to disagree, which is pretty often considering that we have very different political views. His feelings don't get hurt when I say that I disagree. He is awesome, and has a similar absurdist sense of humour. I'm not sure if the reason why we connect is so much that he is gay and I am female, more so than because he is himself and I am myself.

    All I know is that sexual attraction is completely not a factor. I could (and would) hug him without worry of it being misconstrued. I feel completely secure in our friendship, and I know exactly where I stand - and he knows where he stands with me. I also know that I'll always be there for him, and vice versa.
    completely agree...i think it's just a people thing.

  4. #24
    Senior Member ENTJ Extraordinaire's Avatar
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    *sigh* that is sort of what i was trying to say in my last post (however i seemed to have failed miserably). the friendship is secure, and you both know where you stand, coz you both know there is no real sexual attraction. because of this, you can be close, coz you aren't going to be put into compromising sexual positions

    i was trying to say, that it doesn't just exist between gay men and women, but in every relationship where sex isn't a factor. i have alot of teacher friends, who are strictly professional, and yet are still friends with me as a student. it does place a large amount of responsibility on both of us to ensure that it remains professional, however we do it, coz we know there is no sexual attraction there. it means we can have a rather close relationship, without the sexual attraction, and so be close friends, without the guilt of 'doing something wrong'

    *sigh* hope this post helps show my direction a little better [one would assume i would read over it before i post it, but oh well...no one is perfect...!!!]
    Actualized type: ENTJ
    Extroverted (E) 64.71% Introverted (I) 35.29%
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    Thinking (T) 68.42% Feeling (F) 31.58%
    Judging (J) 65% Perceiving (P) 35%

    ENTJ - "Field Marshall". The basic driving force and need is to lead. Tend to seek a position of responsibility and enjoys being an executive. 1.8% of total population.

    http://hubpages.com/profile/Joshywa1

  5. #25
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eldanen View Post
    Hey guys. Something I've been thinking a lot about recently, and it's made me nibble my fingernails a bit.

    I remember all through middle school sitting with girls at lunch, a lot of the time because the guys wouldn't accept me. I'm mostly (98%) sure that I'm gay, but it's been really intriguing for me to consider the hows and the whys of the dynamics of relationships between gay guys and women. It's confusing, somewhat. Because on one hand, I look at other males and the ones I do like I see as an instant heartthrob, and while this exact action doesn't happen with the opposite sex, when I look at women I still have a strong emotional connection with some of them and I feel like I could share something with them. Do gay guys have relationships with women that border on how two women would interact emotionally?

    Conflicted, perplexed, trying to sort things out,
    Eldanen

    You may just have a strong sexual variant in the Enneagram--you prefer intense, intimate relationships, regardless of whether they are sexual. You may just have an exceptional capacity for that kind of intensity and intimacy!
    INFJ

    "I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. You can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the interrelated structure of reality." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

  6. #26
    homo-loving sonovagun anii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eldanen View Post
    Hey guys. Something I've been thinking a lot about recently, and it's made me nibble my fingernails a bit.

    I remember all through middle school sitting with girls at lunch, a lot of the time because the guys wouldn't accept me. I'm mostly (98%) sure that I'm gay, but it's been really intriguing for me to consider the hows and the whys of the dynamics of relationships between gay guys and women. It's confusing, somewhat. Because on one hand, I look at other males and the ones I do like I see as an instant heartthrob, and while this exact action doesn't happen with the opposite sex, when I look at women I still have a strong emotional connection with some of them and I feel like I could share something with them. Do gay guys have relationships with women that border on how two women would interact emotionally?

    Conflicted, perplexed, trying to sort things out,
    Eldanen
    Ooh, interesting question.

    I think maybe it has to do with the sense of safety created by a lack of sexual tension.

    More...

    In doing a google search for "Klein Grid", I found separate wikipedia entries for sexual orientation and affectional orientation. Meaning that who we want to bonk and who we fall in love with are not always the same.

    I would say that sexuality is very complicated, and if you are referring to junior high in your OP, that means you are still in high school and still developing from child-adolescent-adult. I would suggest you just relax and enjoy the relationships you have with both males and females, and let them evolve as they will. But I also remember that adolescence is a time of turmoil, much it caused by raging hormones. I can remember wanting to fuck guys I hated and rejecting as "just friends" perfectly nice guys who showed an interest in me.

    I also had crushes on at least 2 guys who later came out of the closet. (Yes, I 'm a lifetime card-carrying member of FagHags Inc. Hope that term isn't offensive because I wear it like a badge of honor.) That was over 25 years ago, so thank god times have changed and young people feel more comfortable talking about and exploring their sexuality these days.

    Ultimately I would say that you don't have to decide anything right this very minute. That may create more anxiety than it dispels, but hopefully it will give you some breathing space to just "Be" with who you are in all its entirety.

    The older I get the more I see sexuality as fluid vs. rigid. Remember George Costanza's man-crush? (bro-mance?) . I've had strong emotional attractions to women, that stop just short of romantic or sexual. I used to be alarmed by that but as times change and people become more accepting and tolerant of different sexualities, I just accept them for what they are.

    The last time I filled out the Klein grid, my result was 2, which means "mostly straight." I think that's partly because as a P I will never choose the most extreme option on a scaled test, and partly because I now see sexuality as a spectrum and not as a polarized, either-or phenomena. So, in my case, never say never. But most likely, not.

    So just be kind with yourself and don't overthink it. Just let whatever happens, happen.
    There's reason to be afraid, and reason to open your heart. ~ Seal

    Refreshment for your ears: www.kexp.org

  7. #27
    Arcesso pulli gingerios! Eldanen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
    You may just have a strong sexual variant in the Enneagram--you prefer intense, intimate relationships, regardless of whether they are sexual. You may just have an exceptional capacity for that kind of intensity and intimacy!
    Well, I am so/sx, hehe.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Chris_in_Orbit's Avatar
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    Women are pretty easy to talk to for the most part. I've always been intimidated by guys since I was very young...and able to connect with girls instantly. Usually I did have one or two good guy friends but I tried to avoid it. I have more trouble admitting to a guy that I'm gay because I have some negative view of how they react.

    I just feel like guys are egocentric (wow I'm stereotyping....yay) or should i say "more prone to be egocentric" than women are. I think the moment I tell a guy I'm gay they instantly think I have some raging crush on them (which is generally never the case with guys that I think of as friends.) This is usually only with people who identify as straight or are hiding their sexuality. I hate how telling someone something like this can change their whole attitude towards me as if I have suddenly changed. =|

    To me, telling a girl I'm gay has almost always been a good thing. For some reason, a big bomb like that serves to make a relationship stronger... just because she realizes its a very vulnerable area for most people and revealing it shows trust? Maybe that's why gay guys can feel most comfortable around women? They are the people you can forge strong friendships with without having to worry about things getting complicated because of attraction.

  9. #29
    Senior Member ENTJ Extraordinaire's Avatar
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    *sips a peppermint tea silently, absorbing information*
    Actualized type: ENTJ
    Extroverted (E) 64.71% Introverted (I) 35.29%
    Intuitive (N) 56.1% Sensing (S) 43.9%
    Thinking (T) 68.42% Feeling (F) 31.58%
    Judging (J) 65% Perceiving (P) 35%

    ENTJ - "Field Marshall". The basic driving force and need is to lead. Tend to seek a position of responsibility and enjoys being an executive. 1.8% of total population.

    http://hubpages.com/profile/Joshywa1

  10. #30
    Scream down the boulevard LadyJaye's Avatar
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    One of my bosses is gay - a very masculine guy who let me know immediately that he didn't like "queens". We were very close for some reason - he would seek me out at break time to check on me, would walk me to my car at night to be sure I was safe, etc. So one of the guys he was interested in suggested that he try to date a woman just once ( he had never dated a woman before); I'm not sure why the guy said this to him, but anyway, the guy suggested he ask me out. A coworker was getting married, so he asked me to be his date for the wedding ( he even matched his tie to my dress lol ). (He had a picture of me in his bedroom at home, and told his boyfriends that I was his girlfriend and that if they didn't like it, too bad. ) I know he was ready to settle down, he really wanted children and someone permanent to be with, but I told him that I wasn't going to be the one to "convert" him to women, because I knew he was just feeling confused. I felt really bad for him though.

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