• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

Gays & Relationships With Women

Joined
Sep 18, 2008
Messages
1,941
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
512
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
From the other side here.

Female, one of my best friends is a gay male. I love him to bits, and am unusually demonstrative with him (more so than with my girl-friends). He doesn't like very feminine gay guys ("flaming homos") and neither do I... actually, we both don't really like extremely (stereotypically) feminine people - gay or not. So I doubt that I would ever have a gay buddy go "shopping" with me for clothes. But BFF and I are very into the same things - we have the same taste in movies, books, music, coffee etc. So we have a tonne of common ground.

He just... "gets" me. I think of him as being very much more open-minded than most guys, with no homophobia (also a plus) and a lot less stereotypically-minded. We hold discussions where we can agree to disagree, which is pretty often considering that we have very different political views. His feelings don't get hurt when I say that I disagree. He is awesome, and has a similar absurdist sense of humour. I'm not sure if the reason why we connect is so much that he is gay and I am female, more so than because he is himself and I am myself.

All I know is that sexual attraction is completely not a factor. I could (and would) hug him without worry of it being misconstrued. I feel completely secure in our friendship, and I know exactly where I stand - and he knows where he stands with me. I also know that I'll always be there for him, and vice versa.
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
50,187
MBTI Type
BELF
Enneagram
594
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
*sigh* this applies for any relationship. beyond anything its nice to have a level of "we could do this...but we won't...because we have enough control"

i know it sounds like a very ENTJ thing to say, but hey...isn't it true?

I'm not sure what you're talking about exactly or what direction you are going.

However, yes, it's a VERY *J* thing to say.

It's much harder for P's.

Because it feels wrong to ignore the input signals. The instinctive solution is to examine all the current stimulation coming in and flex and conform to what the perceived in herent truth in the situation is.

To constantly impose some sort of CONTROL over top the situation and just make it what you want it to be without regarding for the inherent truth of it leaves me feeling blind and detached from reality and thus "false."

Think about it like a block of grantie a J and P are trying to sculpt. You figure out what you want to sculpt and force the granite block to your will, imposing that form onto it. My instinct is instead to find the shape already waiting within the form of the stone and release it. Sometimes the shape is not much there or things are ambiguous, hence in those situations I can exert my influence to chnge things; but I feel like I'm a vandal or a violator if I start imposing my own desires willy-nilly over the things around me, if I want to be "true" I need to perceive inherent truth and then bring it out.

Now apply that to relationships.
 

Lady_X

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 27, 2008
Messages
18,235
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
784
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
From the other side here.

Female, one of my best friends is a gay male. I love him to bits, and am usually demonstrative with him (more so than with my girl-friends). He doesn't like very feminine gay guys ("flaming homos") and neither do I... actually, we both don't really like extremely (stereotypically) feminine people - gay or not. So I doubt that I would ever have a gay buddy go "shopping" with me for clothes. But BFF and I are very into the same things - we have the same taste in movies, books, music, coffee etc. So we have a tonne of common ground.

He just... "gets" me. I think of him as being very much more open-minded than most guys, with no homophobia (also a plus) and a lot less stereotypically-minded. We hold discussions where we can agree to disagree, which is pretty often considering that we have very different political views. His feelings don't get hurt when I say that I disagree. He is awesome, and has a similar absurdist sense of humour. I'm not sure if the reason why we connect is so much that he is gay and I am female, more so than because he is himself and I am myself.

All I know is that sexual attraction is completely not a factor. I could (and would) hug him without worry of it being misconstrued. I feel completely secure in our friendship, and I know exactly where I stand - and he knows where he stands with me. I also know that I'll always be there for him, and vice versa.

completely agree...i think it's just a people thing.
 

ENTJ Extraordinaire

New member
Joined
Oct 27, 2008
Messages
303
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
9w1
*sigh* that is sort of what i was trying to say in my last post (however i seemed to have failed miserably). the friendship is secure, and you both know where you stand, coz you both know there is no real sexual attraction. because of this, you can be close, coz you aren't going to be put into compromising sexual positions

i was trying to say, that it doesn't just exist between gay men and women, but in every relationship where sex isn't a factor. i have alot of teacher friends, who are strictly professional, and yet are still friends with me as a student. it does place a large amount of responsibility on both of us to ensure that it remains professional, however we do it, coz we know there is no sexual attraction there. it means we can have a rather close relationship, without the sexual attraction, and so be close friends, without the guilt of 'doing something wrong'

*sigh* hope this post helps show my direction a little better [one would assume i would read over it before i post it, but oh well...no one is perfect...!!!]
 

Eileen

New member
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
2,179
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
6?
Hey guys. Something I've been thinking a lot about recently, and it's made me nibble my fingernails a bit.

I remember all through middle school sitting with girls at lunch, a lot of the time because the guys wouldn't accept me. I'm mostly (98%) sure that I'm gay, but it's been really intriguing for me to consider the hows and the whys of the dynamics of relationships between gay guys and women. It's confusing, somewhat. Because on one hand, I look at other males and the ones I do like I see as an instant heartthrob, and while this exact action doesn't happen with the opposite sex, when I look at women I still have a strong emotional connection with some of them and I feel like I could share something with them. Do gay guys have relationships with women that border on how two women would interact emotionally?

Conflicted, perplexed, trying to sort things out,
Eldanen


You may just have a strong sexual variant in the Enneagram--you prefer intense, intimate relationships, regardless of whether they are sexual. You may just have an exceptional capacity for that kind of intensity and intimacy!
 

anii

homo-loving sonovagun
Joined
Jul 9, 2007
Messages
901
MBTI Type
infp
Enneagram
9
Hey guys. Something I've been thinking a lot about recently, and it's made me nibble my fingernails a bit.

I remember all through middle school sitting with girls at lunch, a lot of the time because the guys wouldn't accept me. I'm mostly (98%) sure that I'm gay, but it's been really intriguing for me to consider the hows and the whys of the dynamics of relationships between gay guys and women. It's confusing, somewhat. Because on one hand, I look at other males and the ones I do like I see as an instant heartthrob, and while this exact action doesn't happen with the opposite sex, when I look at women I still have a strong emotional connection with some of them and I feel like I could share something with them. Do gay guys have relationships with women that border on how two women would interact emotionally?

Conflicted, perplexed, trying to sort things out,
Eldanen

Ooh, interesting question.

I think maybe it has to do with the sense of safety created by a lack of sexual tension.

More...

In doing a google search for "Klein Grid", I found separate wikipedia entries for sexual orientation and affectional orientation. Meaning that who we want to bonk and who we fall in love with are not always the same.

I would say that sexuality is very complicated, and if you are referring to junior high in your OP, that means you are still in high school and still developing from child-adolescent-adult. I would suggest you just relax and enjoy the relationships you have with both males and females, and let them evolve as they will. But I also remember that adolescence is a time of turmoil, much it caused by raging hormones. I can remember wanting to fuck guys I hated and rejecting as "just friends" perfectly nice guys who showed an interest in me.

I also had crushes on at least 2 guys who later came out of the closet. (Yes, I 'm a lifetime card-carrying member of FagHags Inc. Hope that term isn't offensive because I wear it like a badge of honor.) That was over 25 years ago, so thank god times have changed and young people feel more comfortable talking about and exploring their sexuality these days.

Ultimately I would say that you don't have to decide anything right this very minute. That may create more anxiety than it dispels, but hopefully it will give you some breathing space to just "Be" with who you are in all its entirety.

The older I get the more I see sexuality as fluid vs. rigid. Remember George Costanza's man-crush? (bro-mance?) . I've had strong emotional attractions to women, that stop just short of romantic or sexual. I used to be alarmed by that but as times change and people become more accepting and tolerant of different sexualities, I just accept them for what they are.

The last time I filled out the Klein grid, my result was 2, which means "mostly straight." I think that's partly because as a P I will never choose the most extreme option on a scaled test, and partly because I now see sexuality as a spectrum and not as a polarized, either-or phenomena. So, in my case, never say never. But most likely, not.

So just be kind with yourself and don't overthink it. Just let whatever happens, happen.
 

Eldanen

Arcesso pulli gingerios!
Joined
Apr 26, 2007
Messages
697
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w4
You may just have a strong sexual variant in the Enneagram--you prefer intense, intimate relationships, regardless of whether they are sexual. You may just have an exceptional capacity for that kind of intensity and intimacy!

Well, I am so/sx, hehe.
 

Chris_in_Orbit

New member
Joined
Jul 7, 2008
Messages
504
MBTI Type
ESTJ
Women are pretty easy to talk to for the most part. I've always been intimidated by guys since I was very young...and able to connect with girls instantly. Usually I did have one or two good guy friends but I tried to avoid it. I have more trouble admitting to a guy that I'm gay because I have some negative view of how they react.

I just feel like guys are egocentric (wow I'm stereotyping....yay) or should i say "more prone to be egocentric" than women are. I think the moment I tell a guy I'm gay they instantly think I have some raging crush on them (which is generally never the case with guys that I think of as friends.) This is usually only with people who identify as straight or are hiding their sexuality. I hate how telling someone something like this can change their whole attitude towards me as if I have suddenly changed. =|

To me, telling a girl I'm gay has almost always been a good thing. For some reason, a big bomb like that serves to make a relationship stronger... just because she realizes its a very vulnerable area for most people and revealing it shows trust? Maybe that's why gay guys can feel most comfortable around women? They are the people you can forge strong friendships with without having to worry about things getting complicated because of attraction.
 

LadyJaye

Scream down the boulevard
Joined
Nov 6, 2007
Messages
2,062
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
7w6
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
One of my bosses is gay - a very masculine guy who let me know immediately that he didn't like "queens". We were very close for some reason - he would seek me out at break time to check on me, would walk me to my car at night to be sure I was safe, etc. So one of the guys he was interested in suggested that he try to date a woman just once ( he had never dated a woman before); I'm not sure why the guy said this to him, but anyway, the guy suggested he ask me out. A coworker was getting married, so he asked me to be his date for the wedding ( he even matched his tie to my dress lol ). (He had a picture of me in his bedroom at home, and told his boyfriends that I was his girlfriend and that if they didn't like it, too bad. ) I know he was ready to settle down, he really wanted children and someone permanent to be with, but I told him that I wasn't going to be the one to "convert" him to women, because I knew he was just feeling confused. I felt really bad for him though.
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
50,187
MBTI Type
BELF
Enneagram
594
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I just feel like guys are egocentric (wow I'm stereotyping....yay) or should i say "more prone to be egocentric" than women are. I think the moment I tell a guy I'm gay they instantly think I have some raging crush on them (which is generally never the case with guys that I think of as friends.) This is usually only with people who identify as straight or are hiding their sexuality...

Quite a hoot, isn't it?

As if the fact you are gay means you would want to have sex with any male who walked by you on the street.

You have to be careful with the male sex identity/ego thing, I think. I don't know how much is ingrained in adolescence, but definitely boys go through the stage of being terrified at being thought gay in a way I do not think girls do.
 

Salomé

meh
Joined
Sep 25, 2008
Messages
10,527
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Quite a hoot, isn't it?

As if the fact you are gay means you would want to have sex with any male who walked by you on the street.

You have to be careful with the male sex identity/ego thing, I think. I don't know how much is ingrained in adolescence, but definitely boys go through the stage of being terrified at being thought gay in a way I do not think girls do.

Haha! Ever noticed how often men go around in 3s?
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
50,187
MBTI Type
BELF
Enneagram
594
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Haha! Ever noticed how often men go around in 3s?

ha ha, you mean, no "double buddy system" just to avoid the insinuation?

Actually, i see lots of guys walk around in two's on the streets here in Hburg on weekend nights...

....and...

....LOL...

now that we're discussing it, I actually DO ask myself if they are gay and watch them for a minute to see if I can figure it out.

:doh: :blush:
 

Chris_in_Orbit

New member
Joined
Jul 7, 2008
Messages
504
MBTI Type
ESTJ
Quite a hoot, isn't it?

As if the fact you are gay means you would want to have sex with any male who walked by you on the street.

You have to be careful with the male sex identity/ego thing, I think. I don't know how much is ingrained in adolescence, but definitely boys go through the stage of being terrified at being thought gay in a way I do not think girls do.

Someone really needs to figure out why this is. There is definitely a societal factor...but I'm not even sure how it got there in the first place.

On a slightly different note yet still somewhat on topic: do you remember the whole "girls are icky" stage boys go through? Do many boys even go through this? I remember always enjoying being around girls when I was little...I wouldn't say moreso than boys back then, but they were definitely on an even playing field with me.

I guess my point is that I don't see how it is conditioned in a man to fear being called a homosexual even though a boy's basic behavior to me, constitutes as gay. Most straight guys that I know prefer to hang out with males, create deeper emotional bonds with males, and feel most comfortable with physical contact (not sexual per say) with another male. :huh:
Yet most will explode with even the smallest implication that someone thinks they are not 100% straight.

I will admit though that some guys are more comfortable about their sexuality than others. The only guys I will ever consider to be "straight" will be ones who can do all the aforementioned things like creating emotional bonds with a male or touching them physically (or choosing not to do these) without having some emotional reaction whenever the topic is mentioned.

Hmm, I guess sexuality is something guys just struggle with as a whole more than women? What do you think?
 

ENTJ Extraordinaire

New member
Joined
Oct 27, 2008
Messages
303
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
9w1
of course men stuggle with it more, coz socially i don't think 'gayness' is as appropriate as 'lesbians' if you know what i mean.

*sigh* its a rather difficult subject to grasp, but i think it comes from the social 'rights and responsibilities' that are supposedly set in stone in our emotional make up.

my belief for men is that they are meant to be 'masculine', and so society frowns upon gays. [of course this argument only goes as far as 'queens' - the stereotypical feminine gay man, you know, the one with the tight jeans and feather boa, that only just classifies as male :)]

and i couldn't agree more, the only people i will ever think of as straight are those that are capable of creating emotional bonds with males, and being able to touch them physically. because if that happens, and you think, 'omg gay contact'...well then, you are gay...coz you think like a gay man :)

as for being 100% straight...is there such a thing? *sigh* i guess as a metro, i am slightly biased, but assuming i am normal (lol...not likely) then i can't say i have never found myself attracted to males without lying. i have had a few gay crushes. however, i have never actually acted on the impulse, and i have always been completely open and honest with the person. and in the end, i think all of those feelings have been emotional, rather than physical. i have never been 'physically' attracted to another guy. but i have found myself 'loving' another male before. i guess this is why i tend to not identify myself as straight/gay/bi/curious/etc. sexuality is confusing at the best of times. it's understandable that people struggle with it.

my moto...don't label yourself, just go with the flow, and do what FEELS right [oh the irony of being a T]
 

Chris_in_Orbit

New member
Joined
Jul 7, 2008
Messages
504
MBTI Type
ESTJ
my moto...don't label yourself, just go with the flow, and do what FEELS right [oh the irony of being a T]

You're actin' like a P! :steam:

But you make many valid points...I know its stupid to think of things as black or white...even thinking in percentages clouds the mind. We are all just people and who we find ourselves attracted to emotionally and physically is a minor detail in who we are as people.
 

grendiecat

New member
Joined
May 3, 2008
Messages
51
MBTI Type
ENFJ
I have a gay friend who is one of the closest friends I've ever had. I keep his secrets secret and he does the same with mine. We can be ourselves with each other and not pretty anything up. He's hysterically funny and we've travelled together on a number of occasions and he's so low maintenance--it's wonderful!
 

millerm277

New member
Joined
Feb 1, 2008
Messages
978
MBTI Type
ISTP
Hmm. I'll start with the on topic part. (I am male, and straight.)

For your actual question, from what I've seen, that's exactly correct. Also, maybe you are bi, or just have some curiosities in that area. Based on some previous threads here, there are certainly a decent number of straight guys that have had a few thoughts towards their own sex.

Now then, speaking for myself on some of the topics mentioned here:

I don't really care if someone is gay or straight. If they act relatively normally, I can certainly be friends with them. The problem I have.....is when gay guys decide to go the flamboyant direction and have that certain voice, and then have a problem with me not treating them like normal guys. I don't go around screaming "I'm straight!", why do you need to go around screaming "I'm Gay!"..? (Not necessarily directed at you.). I really don't care what your preferences are, stop making it that big of a deal.

Being involved with the technical side of theater productions (I build sets, and do lighting work), means that I'm in contact with a lot of gay people. (Actors and designers/directors mostly.). The majority of them are normal, and I can get along with, and not annoying. A few....give the rest a bad name to some.
 

ENTJ Extraordinaire

New member
Joined
Oct 27, 2008
Messages
303
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
9w1
Hmm. I'll start with the on topic part. (I am male, and straight.)

For your actual question, from what I've seen, that's exactly correct. Also, maybe you are bi, or just have some curiosities in that area. Based on some previous threads here, there are certainly a decent number of straight guys that have had a few thoughts towards their own sex.

Now then, speaking for myself on some of the topics mentioned here:

I don't really care if someone is gay or straight. If they act relatively normally, I can certainly be friends with them. The problem I have.....is when gay guys decide to go the flamboyant direction and have that certain voice, and then have a problem with me not treating them like normal guys. I don't go around screaming "I'm straight!", why do you need to go around screaming "I'm Gay!"..? (Not necessarily directed at you.). I really don't care what your preferences are, stop making it that big of a deal.

Being involved with the technical side of theater productions (I build sets, and do lighting work), means that I'm in contact with a lot of gay people. (Actors and designers/directors mostly.). The majority of them are normal, and I can get along with, and not annoying. A few....give the rest a bad name to some.

wow, i couldn't agree more with you. i cannot stand flamboyant gays. (have heaps of gay friends, and i will happily flirt with anyone...male, or female. however flamboyant gays are just so overbearing and showy, i feel so out of place and i guess a little 'showed-up' around them

*sigh* interesting as this has recently come up at work. we have one gay guy who is EXTREMELY!!!!!! gay. he thinks that coz he is gay, he can do whatever he wants. and that women are instantly his best friends. my close work friend (a girl) can't stand him...and i am trying to work out why not...*sigh* gay man is a womans best friend...perhaps...but i beg to differ. i think its the Metro's (such as myself) the ones they can go shopping with, without being so annoyingly flamboyant. *sigh* at the same time, then there is the added confusion of, 'ok, i am shopping with this guy...but he is straight...is he thinking of me?' easy answer is hell yea! [lol...you will be happy to know i only usually go shopping with my girlfriend these days :p have to be a bit more reserved now! :p]

perhaps you are bi...perhaps you are not...as i have said...DON'T LABEL YOURSELF. just do what feels right! ;)

in the end, its your choice as to what you do, a label is only for everyone elses convenience, all that matters is that you know what you are, what you are capable of, and what you WANT!
 

nomadic

mountain surfing
Joined
Jul 15, 2008
Messages
1,709
MBTI Type
enfp
hey i have a gay question bc of all this prop 8 stuff in california.

when a gay couple is raising their adopted child... do they teach them to be gay?

bc if they teach them to be gay, aren't they saying its a choice? or at least, partially a choice?
 
Top