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psychoanalyze this feeling

T

ThatGirl

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Ok, so I have been taking a physical antropology class all fine and dandy right. Until we started to study primate behavior. Ive never been much of an animal person, and I never thought I was a monkey, so why should this knowledge be different right.

So, today we are sitting there watching a video on Jane Goodall and her chimps, and I cant stand it.

What is this feeling?

Im not offended not angry. But my chest is tight and intense. I don't want to talk to anyone, I just wish I could run into a hole somewhere, but I am very calm. It just hurts in my chest.

Its not the animals I really am not an activist or anything so this just doesnt make sense to me.

Why does primate behavior effect me so significantly?

Werid I know.


I would almost comapre it to sadness, WTF?
 

Colors

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Just conjecturing, but it sounds like you're having an emotional reaction to recognizing something human about chimpanzees and something chimpanzee about humans. :)

You say you've never thought of yourself as "a monkey" or been an "animal person", so of course it might be disconcerting to feel/see the human/animal connection for the first time. It's intense- to see a new aspect of the world.
 
T

ThatGirl

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Just conjecturing, but it sounds like you're having an emotional reaction to recognizing something human about chimpanzees and something chimpanzee about humans. :)

You say you've never thought of yourself as "a monkey" or been an "animal person", so of course it might be disconcerting to feel/see the human/animal connection for the first time. It's intense- to see a new aspect of the world.

I'll concur on that, but I think it is somehow the end of capability to witness in my lifetime. Ive never felt this despair over my own kind before.


geez I even sound awful to me.

Its almost like what I have seen as to what I have been told has been validated by the former. We, as people are complex, and thats great, but ive always seemed to see something more.....

it was "something" to see that your horrible view points are validated. I know exactly who I am sort of thing.

Agrh, this is stupid, tell me it is stupid.

I dont know why it bothers me so much.
 

Kyrielle

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holy shit am I a feeler?

No.

Hmm. Do you, perhaps, see now that humans are not nearly so superior as we have long claimed? That despite being so rational and intelligent we are, at our bases, barely much more than primates on mental steroids?

I can see how that would cause one to despair or at least feel uncomfortable.
 

Virtual ghost

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I'll concur on that, but I think it is somehow the end of capability to witness in my lifetime. Ive never felt this despair over my own kind before.


geez I even sound awful to me.

Its almost like what I have seen as to what I have been told has been validated by the former. We, as people are complex, and thats great, but ive always seemed to see something more.....

it was "something" to see that your horrible view points are validated. I know exactly who I am sort of thing.

Agrh, this is stupid, tell me it is stupid.

I dont know why it bothers me so much.


It would be weird that it doesn't bothers you. Since this is a direct attack on the foundations of your belief and if it is true what you have seen then some questions must be asked. The questions that will create even more mess in your head.


I know about what I am talking about since I am into evolution professionally and I know my effect on other people.
 

Kora

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Maybe fear caused by realizing that something in which you believed strongly may be false after all.
 

Virtual ghost

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I am curious.

Are you traditional in general or this makes you feel bad just like that?
 

Totenkindly

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Is that what it was? The OP was very vague about what exactly you were reacting to and feeling, specifically.

I remember feeling uncomfortable the first time I really considered the similarities between other primates and human beings. I was brought up in the church and had a large faith underlying life experience, and so it was a shock when I really looked and realized how closely related we are... and it made me question my other assumptions about life.

I don't know, I was good at suppressing the negative feelings; truth is truth, information is information, and I can't ignore any that I don't like; but yes, depending on your assumptions about people and/or just yourself, having the rug torn out from under you like that can be very disconcerting and even cause psychological vertigo. I have on occasion, when jolted hard enough, had that weird body sensation where I just felt physically ill, unsettled, just WRONG... and the horrible part for an NT is that I could not articulate or pinpoint WHY or WHAT exactly was going on -- I just felt emotionally crappy enough that physically I was thrown for a loop too. There's little to process or understand. I think Thinkers -- and especially abstracted ones -- are really hit hard when their body is reacting apart from the rest of them and there's nothing that can be understood.

If this is what you're talking about, maybe you can imagine now why religious people without a lot of psychological stamina can't even really bear to consider the idea we're so connected to the rest of the animal kingdom.
 

Virtual ghost

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I know that many people can't do it and I know why.

If you still have that anxiety don't read the rest of my reply.


As for the evolution I think that people in general don't understand what evolution actually is. People look at it and think that the whole point is that humans are one type of monkeys. But they are not aware that evolution says that all life is actually one big family. Well, it is hard to imagine that fish that you have for lunch shares
grand,grand,grand,garnd........................................(forever) parents with you.
For example take a look at mammals, birds, lizards or frogs and you will see that all of this creatures have four limbs what is a heritage of common ancestor.
Also it is hard for people to imagine a world without humans, but for me this is idea that is on my mind everyday and multiple times during the day.
 

ThatsWhatHeSaid

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It's called heartburn. Drink some carbonated water.


Fine. I think probably you saw her compassion for animals and it opened your heart, making you feel love inside.
 

Salomé

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Also it is hard for people to imagine a world without humans, but for me this is idea that is on my mind everyday and multiple times during the day.

Are you plotting our demise, AO?

I don't understand the problem here. I don't know why TG is/was upset. She mentions activism so I'm wondering if it was some kind of animal cruelty? I can't handle that at all, so I could relate. But perhaps it is nothing to do with primates at all but something in the video served to remind her of something in her own life which she is repressing. Too vague to say really.

As for evolution, I can't understand why this would upset anyone, unless they are horribly proud in the style of white supremacists, for example, in which case, they deserve to be upset.
I was raised to believe in Creationism. I was taught evolution is a hoax. I read The Origin of Species and developed a profound respect for Darwin, for the way he joined the dots - I think it is a beautifully elegant theory. How could anyone find it threatening?
Bizarre!
 

ptgatsby

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If this is what you're talking about, maybe you can imagine now why religious people without a lot of psychological stamina can't even really bear to consider the idea we're so connected to the rest of the animal kingdom.

It can be difficult even for those that aren't religious! I remember when I came face to face with it, before even going through the principles of evolution. To this day I struggle with the double standard we have over concepts of life - we grant rights to humans, but not out inferiors, and yet our difference, in the big picture, is so small that it is merely human ego that differentiates.


For the OP, I suspect this is the same thing you were going through. It hits something deep down inside us... causes us to revisit many of our premises that our worldview was built on. It calls into question our beliefs and even the validity of our actions. As you said, it makes us face that we really might be "nothing more" when deep down, we need to feel that we are "something special".


Fine. I think probably you saw her compassion for animals and it opened your heart, making you feel love inside.

Or that. Depends how much dissonance you went through, IMO.
 

cascadeco

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It would be weird that it doesn't bothers you. Since this is a direct attack on the foundations of your belief and if it is true what you have seen then some questions must be asked. The questions that will create even more mess in your head.

Tend to agree. When observing primates it is fairly obvious the similarities between them and us - body movement, facial expressions, etc. And the awareness that they have intellectual processing and emotions (the discussion of the level of both of these would be another topic).

Also tend to agree with AO's second response, but that's getting into evolution which although could be related to this thread, and a reason for the feelings experienced by ThatGirl, I doubt it's what she was really experiencing, at least in that moment. In that moment, probably more just seeing behavioral similarities, and from that observation/awareness, obviously it could cause a deeper reverberation on an intellectual level - just bringing into question larger views of the world and other lifeforms. But since she mentioned chest-tightening, and simply the feelings (and opened this thread because she didn't fully understand it!), she hasn't intellectually worked out the root cause of the feelings.

[I've always felt a deep connection to other life, so have a harder time relating to people who do NOT see that connection.

Which leads to ptgatsy's point -
ptgatsby said:
To this day I struggle with the double standard we have over concepts of life - we grant rights to humans, but not out inferiors, and yet our difference, in the big picture, is so small that it is merely human ego that differentiates.

Although I don't personally consider them 'inferiors'. :)
 

cascadeco

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:) That depends on the lines we draw, I would think. I presume you don't treat them as equals, either :D

Fair point. Given the reality of life and the world as it is today, it's an impossibility - on a largescale/cultural level. But it kind of depends on what element you're looking at, and how you're defining 'equal', as I'm not sure how you're defining it. I might have a different answer, depending.

Perhaps I'm speaking on more a philosophical level -- more the buddhist approach/respect/love for all life...
 

Night

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Why not?
Seriously, do you have a good reason?

You treat animals as your equal/how you would treat a human...?

I think this is a nice ideal, but is probably unrealistic in practice.
 

Salomé

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^ if you knew how I treat humans, you might find that statement less remarkable...

I'm talking theories/justifications not practicalities - check out my type ;)
 
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