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  1. #11
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    I know that many people can't do it and I know why.

    If you still have that anxiety don't read the rest of my reply.


    As for the evolution I think that people in general don't understand what evolution actually is. People look at it and think that the whole point is that humans are one type of monkeys. But they are not aware that evolution says that all life is actually one big family. Well, it is hard to imagine that fish that you have for lunch shares
    grand,grand,grand,garnd........................... .............(forever) parents with you.
    For example take a look at mammals, birds, lizards or frogs and you will see that all of this creatures have four limbs what is a heritage of common ancestor.
    Also it is hard for people to imagine a world without humans, but for me this is idea that is on my mind everyday and multiple times during the day.

  2. #12
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    It's called heartburn. Drink some carbonated water.


    Fine. I think probably you saw her compassion for animals and it opened your heart, making you feel love inside.

  3. #13
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    Also it is hard for people to imagine a world without humans, but for me this is idea that is on my mind everyday and multiple times during the day.
    Are you plotting our demise, AO?

    I don't understand the problem here. I don't know why TG is/was upset. She mentions activism so I'm wondering if it was some kind of animal cruelty? I can't handle that at all, so I could relate. But perhaps it is nothing to do with primates at all but something in the video served to remind her of something in her own life which she is repressing. Too vague to say really.

    As for evolution, I can't understand why this would upset anyone, unless they are horribly proud in the style of white supremacists, for example, in which case, they deserve to be upset.
    I was raised to believe in Creationism. I was taught evolution is a hoax. I read The Origin of Species and developed a profound respect for Darwin, for the way he joined the dots - I think it is a beautifully elegant theory. How could anyone find it threatening?
    Bizarre!

  4. #14
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    If this is what you're talking about, maybe you can imagine now why religious people without a lot of psychological stamina can't even really bear to consider the idea we're so connected to the rest of the animal kingdom.
    It can be difficult even for those that aren't religious! I remember when I came face to face with it, before even going through the principles of evolution. To this day I struggle with the double standard we have over concepts of life - we grant rights to humans, but not out inferiors, and yet our difference, in the big picture, is so small that it is merely human ego that differentiates.


    For the OP, I suspect this is the same thing you were going through. It hits something deep down inside us... causes us to revisit many of our premises that our worldview was built on. It calls into question our beliefs and even the validity of our actions. As you said, it makes us face that we really might be "nothing more" when deep down, we need to feel that we are "something special".


    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    Fine. I think probably you saw her compassion for animals and it opened your heart, making you feel love inside.
    Or that. Depends how much dissonance you went through, IMO.

  5. #15
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    It would be weird that it doesn't bothers you. Since this is a direct attack on the foundations of your belief and if it is true what you have seen then some questions must be asked. The questions that will create even more mess in your head.
    Tend to agree. When observing primates it is fairly obvious the similarities between them and us - body movement, facial expressions, etc. And the awareness that they have intellectual processing and emotions (the discussion of the level of both of these would be another topic).

    Also tend to agree with AO's second response, but that's getting into evolution which although could be related to this thread, and a reason for the feelings experienced by ThatGirl, I doubt it's what she was really experiencing, at least in that moment. In that moment, probably more just seeing behavioral similarities, and from that observation/awareness, obviously it could cause a deeper reverberation on an intellectual level - just bringing into question larger views of the world and other lifeforms. But since she mentioned chest-tightening, and simply the feelings (and opened this thread because she didn't fully understand it!), she hasn't intellectually worked out the root cause of the feelings.

    [I've always felt a deep connection to other life, so have a harder time relating to people who do NOT see that connection.

    Which leads to ptgatsy's point -
    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby
    To this day I struggle with the double standard we have over concepts of life - we grant rights to humans, but not out inferiors, and yet our difference, in the big picture, is so small that it is merely human ego that differentiates.
    Although I don't personally consider them 'inferiors'. :-)
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  6. #16
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascademn View Post
    Although I don't personally consider them 'inferiors'. :-)
    That depends on the lines we draw, I would think. I presume you don't treat them as equals, either

  7. #17
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    That depends on the lines we draw, I would think. I presume you don't treat them as equals, either
    Fair point. Given the reality of life and the world as it is today, it's an impossibility - on a largescale/cultural level. But it kind of depends on what element you're looking at, and how you're defining 'equal', as I'm not sure how you're defining it. I might have a different answer, depending.

    Perhaps I'm speaking on more a philosophical level -- more the buddhist approach/respect/love for all life...
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  8. #18
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    That depends on the lines we draw, I would think. I presume you don't treat them as equals, either
    Why not?
    Seriously, do you have a good reason?

  9. #19
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluemonday View Post
    Why not?
    Seriously, do you have a good reason?
    You treat animals as your equal/how you would treat a human...?

    I think this is a nice ideal, but is probably unrealistic in practice.

  10. #20
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    ^ if you knew how I treat humans, you might find that statement less remarkable...

    I'm talking theories/justifications not practicalities - check out my type

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