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[Type 4] Distinguishing between 4w5 and 4w3 plus 5 fix OR the fractal nature of identity

overglow

New member
Joined
Jul 29, 2017
Messages
1
Hi everyone! I've been intrigued by the Enneagram for a long time, since I was in high school, and I'm only just learning about tritypes, which are fascinating to me. I'm not sure yet though how to combine wings with tritypes, especially for myself.

Here is what I know, pretty clearly: my core type is 4. I've thought for a long time that I was a 4 with a 5 wing, but I'm not so certain about that in this moment. I feel pretty confident that in terms of instinctual subtype I'm So/Sx, but I'm also still learning about that.

Here is what I feel most confused about: how do you combine the wing system with the tritype system? Is it possible to be a 4w3 with a 5 fix?

For me, I identify with aspects of both 3 and 5. I feel most clearly connected with 5, both emotionally/introspectively and through test scores. But, while I do tend to be pretty intellectual and analytical and care more about fighting for truth and justice and social change than I do about conventional success, I also totally want to be famous and see myself having some definite shape-shifting capacities. (Also, though, the way I want to be famous is definitely more about critical acclaim/being appreciated by people with really good taste than it is about being popular with tons of people.)

Here are my results from this test: https://www.eclecticenergies.com/enneagram/evaltest.php

Type 4 - 10
Type 6 - 8.7
Type 2 - 6
Type 5 - 5
Type 3 - 4.4

Wing 4w5 - 12.5
Wing 4w3 - 12.2
Wing 6w5 - 11.2
Wing 5w4 - 10
Wing 3w4 - 9.4
Wing 5w6 - 9.4
Wing 6w7 - 9.2
Wing 2w3 - 8.2
Wing 3w2 - 7.4
Wing 2w1 - 6.7

Part of what is confusing is there's so many possibilities. Like, I am a 4w5 with a 5w6 or maybe a 4w5 with a 6w5? And then I start to think, does it even make sense to combine the wings with the tritypes (which seems like a 5 question)? Is that a valid intellectual system? Who came up with combining them? (Which seem like they could be 6 questions or 1 questions or 5 questions?) And, of course, I'm aware that I'm performing introspection right now, like sharing my inner process for Internet strangers and I'm being mostly honest about that process, but also I want you to like me and be impressed by me and I don't know how to parse out the 5 and the 3 from that. I mean, it almost seems like I'm doing a 4w5 thing for 3 ends? Or maybe it's just for So subtype ends?

Also, I'm aware that because I'm a 4 with 5 influence, there's this way that I get fascinated by myself and my identity and also by intellectual systems and my own/everyone's thought processes and maybe I'm being swayed by my own preferred self-image. Like, maybe I want to be a 4w5 because it's called the Bohemian and I'd rather be a bohemian than an aristocrat... Help me before I get lost in an infinite loop of self-recursion?

(Oh yeah, there's also the question of the gut center. I don't feel very connected to 8, see aspects of both 9 and 1 in myself. I could see being either a 9w1 or 1w9--I doubt I'm a 1w2, despite my test results--that's probably an, um, indication of my current level of health/disintegration, although who knows?)
 
Joined
Apr 24, 2016
Messages
1,659
I understand your dilemma because I also relate heavily to both wings and have had difficulties pinpointing my exact wing for a while now. I have 5 wing traits when it comes to being very introverted, withdrawn, and wanting to acquire knowledge from subjects that interest me, but I also exhibit 3 wing traits for the exact reasons as you've noted. I don't want to be popular just for the sake of it, but rather be admired and held in high esteem preferably in a select niche group.

What I have to take into consideration is that I am involved in one of the most introverted career professions, so it's not difficult to see why I could lean towards 5-ish behavior for this reason. Although, I have always exhibited this behavior since I was very young, but that is on an entirely different side note. What I am trying to get at is that 4w3s can be very withdrawn like their 5 wing counterparts depending on the circumstances surrounding their desire for success. I do as well like intellectual pursuits, especially when it comes to art, music, and other subjects that pertain to my interests, but I'd prefer to achieve something great than to just simply acquire knowledge for the sake of it.

So what it comes down to is what are your basic fears and desires? Forget behavioral archetypes. Do you desire success and feeling valuable, but fear being seen as a worthless failure? Or do you prefer to be knowledgeable and useful, but fear being helpless and incompetent? I lean a little more towards the former, so that would make me a 4w3, but a very introverted 4w3.

And yes, it is possible to have a 5 fix even with being a 4w3, which could influence some 5-ish behavior in you.
 

Peter Deadpan

phallus impudicus
Joined
Dec 14, 2016
Messages
8,883
You sound like me when I'm Ni-Ti looping, not that that's relevant at all (unless you're an INFJ and you're stressing yourself out with this stuff).

I do think though that many people have a tendency to miss the forest while staring at the trees when it comes to typology. I think less literal interpretation/analysis and more "go with the flow" are beneficial to self-typing. I think taking a step back and acknowledging your fears over analyzing your behavior will guide you in the right direction. The descriptions, after all, are broad definitions of a vast variety of people and tend to focus on weaknesses/ill-health.
 
Joined
Mar 7, 2017
Messages
590
MBTI Type
ISTJ
Enneagram
125
Instinctual Variant
so/sp
You can have both wings, yes. I do myself, I am a 1w9w2 or however one should write it.

Quote from Wikipedia:
Most, but not all, Enneagram of Personality theorists teach that a person's basic type is modified, at least to some extent, by the personality dynamics of the two adjacent types as indicated on the enneagram figure. These two types are often called "wings". A person of the Three personality type, for example, is understood to have points Two and Four as their wing types. The circle of the enneagram figure may indicate that the types or points exist on a spectrum rather than as distinct types or points unrelated to those adjacent to them. A person may be understood, therefore, to have a core type and one or two wing types that influence but do not change the core type.
 

Zeego

Mind Wanderer
Joined
Apr 15, 2016
Messages
390
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
I think it's definitely possible to have a 3 wing and a 5 fix. You could just have a weak 3 wing. A while ago I read about something called subwings, so perhaps you're 4w3sw5w4. There's also the possibility that you have balanced wings, and your core type is simply 4.
 
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