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  1. #1

    Default Difference between a 4w5 so and a 4w3?

    Does anyone know the difference between the two? I’ve been wondering if I’m more of a 4w5 lately because I don’t relate to the w3’s outward expression much at all as I’m naturally very withdrawn. The only attribute of the 3 wing I relate to is the success part, but I’m not generally super driven like they are. I am image focused, but I relate to the 4w5 so/sp’s self-conscious demeanor and how they are described as pretending to not care what others think, but they actually do in reality. A 4w5 so seems to have a 4w3 flavor, so that's why I'm curious, but correct me if I'm wrong. However, I identify with the sp instinctual variant the most, but I can see sx and so just as well. I have always tested as a 4w5 and relate to it very much, but 4w3 is another common result I get too. Sometimes I wonder if maybe I just have balanced wings and that could be why I relate to both so well.

    If someone can provide information on the two, I’d greatly appreciate it.
    Like you - I am broken and fragile.
    Like you - I am tasting my heart for the first time.


    - Christian Death, The Drowning

  2. #2

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    Anyone?
    Like you - I am broken and fragile.
    Like you - I am tasting my heart for the first time.


    - Christian Death, The Drowning

  3. #3
    Senior Member Cat Brainz's Avatar
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    Id say hmm 4w5s are far more withdrawn than 4w3s due to the influence of the withdrawn wing. 4w5s in general tend to focus their image in a more intellectual way like digging deep and using w5 to use said findings to form an image while 4w3s are a very different flavor altogether. (IMO 4w3s and 4w5s are very different). 4w3s are far more image focused than 4w5 due to the 3 influence being more willing to sell themselves so to speak in order to get a valuable image. 4w3s tend to be more arty and out there with their individually and some can even forgo inner self in favor of achievement so they can look 3w4 at times. As for you you seem more 4w5 than 4w3 as I dont see any w3 showiness but more w5 reflection and inwards looking.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat Brainz View Post
    Id say hmm 4w5s are far more withdrawn than 4w3s due to the influence of the withdrawn wing. 4w5s in general tend to focus their image in a more intellectual way like digging deep and using w5 to use said findings to form an image while 4w3s are a very different flavor altogether. (IMO 4w3s and 4w5s are very different). 4w3s are far more image focused than 4w5 due to the 3 influence being more willing to sell themselves so to speak in order to get a valuable image. 4w3s tend to be more arty and out there with their individually and some can even forgo inner self in favor of achievement so they can look 3w4 at times. As for you you seem more 4w5 than 4w3 as I dont see any w3 showiness but more w5 reflection and inwards looking.
    Okay thanks. But is a 4w5 with an so instinct similar to a 4w3 in any way? I would think it would appear almost like a 4w3 due to the so instinct first in the stacking where it would give the 4w5 a desire to make something of themselves due to past feelings of shame, but I’m not quite sure. I just know that a 5 wing isn’t concerned necessarily with success like a 3 wing is and is instead primarily focused on accumulating knowledge. I’m not sure I relate to the latter, but I relate to the other aspects of a 5 wing just with success in the back of my mind. That is why I’m a bit perplexed because I identify with a few aspects of one wing and a few from the other and then there are areas where I don’t. The 4w5 so sounds like something I could possibly identify as, but I relate heavily to the sp instinct, so I’m unsure if I could be a 4w5. I do want to be successful, but it has to be on my own terms. That is why I always thought I was a 4w3, but I just don’t reflect that energy like you said.
    Like you - I am broken and fragile.
    Like you - I am tasting my heart for the first time.


    - Christian Death, The Drowning

  5. #5
    Honeyed Water thoughtlost's Avatar
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    Hi, I don't know how far my knowledge can help

    But I do feel like a 4w5 social dominant can look SORT OF like a 4w3, but only in the sense that they focus on things like "popularity" and what "everyone else can do but them". They also don't appear to be "hard to read" and are quite warm people always willing to have a friendly conversation or banter and really love to have fun and laugh -they love to go out drinking with friends! So even though a social 4w5 is withdrawn ...they are not so withdrawn that they appear unapproachable. My "stereotype" of a 4w5 is that they really won't engage with you no matter how hard you try (and so you should feel special when they do lol) and they literally aren't down to Earth because being themselves honestly is super important, but that's not the case for the 4w5 I know. They don't emphasize their differences from others so much, even though they really notice how they are so different. They really lament how they can't be like other people while the the sx or sp 4w5 know they aren't like other people ...but it's not a big worry for them.

    social dominant 4w5 live in relation/comparison to people in general (comparing themselves to their families, people in their generation, any collective group of people)

    ...but then that's sort of where the similarities stops. 4w5s can get caught up in their thoughts and they feel like they don't have any ambition. Or if they do have things they want they don't put in effort to seek them out. So they have a defeatist attitude and they really need to push themselves to overcome their fears/self-sabotaging mentality. Their drama/intensity is in their heads, so they withdraw until something can bring them out of their shell. 4w3s live a more externalized dramatic life.
    You are so arbitrary.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by thoughtlost View Post
    Hi, I don't know how far my knowledge can help

    But I do feel like a 4w5 social dominant can look SORT OF like a 4w3, but only in the sense that they focus on things like "popularity" and what "everyone else can do but them". They also don't appear to be "hard to read" and are quite warm people always willing to have a friendly conversation or banter and really love to have fun and laugh -they love to go out drinking with friends! So even though a social 4w5 is withdrawn ...they are not so withdrawn that they appear unapproachable. My "stereotype" of a 4w5 is that they really won't engage with you no matter how hard you try (and so you should feel special when they do lol) and they literally aren't down to Earth because being themselves honestly is super important, but that's not the case for the 4w5 I know. They don't emphasize their differences from others so much, even though they really notice how they are so different. They really lament how they can't be like other people while the the sx or sp 4w5 know they aren't like other people ...but it's not a big worry for them.

    social dominant 4w5 live in relation/comparison to people in general (comparing themselves to their families, people in their generation, any collective group of people)

    ...but then that's sort of where the similarities stops. 4w5s can get caught up in their thoughts and they feel like they don't have any ambition. Or if they do have things they want they don't put in effort to seek them out. So they have a defeatist attitude and they really need to push themselves to overcome their fears/self-sabotaging mentality. Their drama/intensity is in their heads, so they withdraw until something can bring them out of their shell. 4w3s live a more externalized dramatic life.
    Thank you! This really helped a lot! I think I will stick with a balanced wing because I know for sure I am an sp-dom now and don’t relate to the aspects of the social instinct even as a 4w5. However, as I am very much withdrawn like a 4w5, I do have ambition, but only in a specific field where I believe I have the ability to make it, otherwise I would be sufficient just getting by. I’m also not as dramatized like a 4w3 would be, especially externally, so that’s another reason why I don’t believe I fully am one. So balanced it is. Thanks again!
    Like you - I am broken and fragile.
    Like you - I am tasting my heart for the first time.


    - Christian Death, The Drowning

  7. #7
    Lone Wolf
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    4w5 are reserved almost to the point of being a recluse at times and are more theoretical and extreme loners. They dig a bit deeper than the 4w3 and are a tad more intellectual.
    4w3 are more motivated, passionate, energetic, artistic, and worry about image even more so than the identity seeking 4w5.

    In general, I'd label it like this:
    4w5: Intellectual, Reserved, Silently Idealistic
    4w3: Driven, Passionate, Artistic
    Enneagram: 8w7 & 4w5 > 6w5

    Instinctual Varient: Sp/Sx

    Socionics: IEE - Fi

    Global 5: rLuE[I]

    Temperament: Melancholic > Choleric > Sanguine > Phlegmatic
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  8. #8
    I am Fay's Avatar
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    There is more to 4w3s than just being more socially aware and extroverted than 4w5s.
    5 wing comes with an intellectual spark, desire to analyze and understand the outside world. Social 4w5s would therefore be most likely social critics of some form, they'd find it facsinating how social structures work and they would try to study them in order to gain more knowledge and therefore more social security. 5s fear situations, that they don't understand, if they have social instinct it would be essential for themselves to educate on things like sociology, politology, psychology, ethics etc... to be able to actually function in a society. So the desire to fit within a society would transform into an intellectual obession rather than extroverted assertion of one's self, which is more likely for 4w3s.
    4w3-7w6-1w9 so/sx

  9. #9
    Honeyed Water thoughtlost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fay View Post
    There is more to 4w3s than just being more socially aware and extroverted than 4w5s.
    5 wing comes with an intellectual spark, desire to analyze and understand the outside world. Social 4w5s would therefore be most likely social critics of some form, they'd find it facsinating how social structures work and they would try to study them in order to gain more knowledge and therefore more social security. 5s fear situations, that they don't understand, if they have social instinct it would be essential for themselves to educate on things like sociology, politology, psychology, ethics etc... to be able to actually function in a society. So the desire to fit within a society would transform into an intellectual obession rather than extroverted assertion of one's self, which is more likely for 4w3s.
    THIS.
    ALL OF THIS.
    Perfect.

    That's exactly how my social dominant 4w5 friend is like.

    Adding this on, I wonder how a 4w5 sx/so or so/sx would look. As noted by another member ...a lot of the sx/so or so/sx descriptions about 4s are always about 4w3s instead of 4w5s.
    Last edited by thoughtlost; 06-01-2017 at 07:30 PM.
    You are so arbitrary.
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  10. #10
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    I probably lean towards 4w5, and will say that in many E4 descriptions, it all sounds a bit concrete to me. There was one video where the man way saying that E4 is rigid because they need all their furniture a certain way, and all their concrete detail just perfectly so. He was an E1, so he may have been describing E4 through an E1 lens. It sounded like that to me.

    I do have some external originality in how I dress, and my dream house tends to be really crazy and far out. My dream house would be far away in the forest and look like a simple ramshackled cabin, but inside it would be amazing, and the view outside would be breath-taking. There are also many other far out dream houses I have imagined.

    I'm not rigid about furniture or anything else. What I care about is having my internal ideas accurate, clear, and to be able to see reality in a new way. My dream and ambition in the world is to contribute interesting and original ideas, but to be mostly unknown as a person. I would like to create an artistic image of myself with super artsy-fartsy photography that veils the reality of me, so that I could be well-known, but no one could recognize me on the street. In a way the images would be expressing what I look like inside rather than outside, and so it would achieve my ideal of conveying absolute truth while also remaining hidden. I want to be an important idea and not a celebrity - that is my dream of ultimate contribution in the world. It isn't any idea, but ideas about beauty, kindness, and uniqueness. I would like to instill into reality a reflection and unique distortion of what is best in reality and so leave it better than I found it.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

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