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  1. #1
    Senior Member ThaumaturgicTheorist's Avatar
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    Default Really a core Nine?

    I know I shitpost a lot of junk on this forum, and that will probably be my undoing; plus it just makes this post look really bad. But, if I'm going to be self-obsessed, might as well be pseudo-academically self-obsessed.

    I went clicking around Personality Cafe for the first time in months lately, including visiting their Enneagram subforum and E9 forum. I remember I used to like it there - a place full of friendly people sharing stories of laziness, conflict-avoidance, and occasional emptiness. Sometimes though, stuff is a bit too extreme for me.

    The thread in question was one about an indifference toward dying, which nearly everyone related to and claimed they weren't depressed. It's not the first time I've wondered if I'm not actually indifferent enough to be a core Nine. There are jokes about Nines giving no fucks, more serious discussions of them being unable to care about even important things. But I, if anything, care too much. The kind of "what's the point" feeling attributed to my type only kicks in when I really am depressed, or linked to something else - ephemerality or pure nihilism rarely ever play a role in that kind of thinking; fear of failure is another story.

    I mistyped at Six for a while, and I've wondered if that was just disintegration. I've speculated about being an image type of some sort due to my kinds of internal thoughts, fantasies, and painful things the Enneagram made me realize about myself. But, seeing examples of the level of disengagement and detachment other core Nines supposedly have - actually really disturbs me. It scares me to think of being that way, it's that unrelatable - I've fought mentally against ever getting to that level, against that kind of mentality in general. Maybe I looked too much at symptoms unrelated to type when calling myself a Nine.

    Not to mention, I seldom relate to type-specific advice for Nines. I inhabit myself, sometimes too much. I know I have desires and needs - I'm not fully aware of what they are, and I tend to be ashamed of them, but I know they're there. What I need most is a spine. :p


    So yeah, I'm reviving a self-typing discussion . Anyone know of some relevant type-differentiating questions?
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  2. #2
    Egad! No bondage! Obfuscate's Avatar
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    this isn't what you are looking for, but i had no idea that indifference towards death was common among nines.. given that i have settled on 9w1 for myself, i found it helpful in confirming my self "diagnosis"....
    "The vanity of intelligence is that the intelligent man is often more committed to 'one-upping' his opponent than being truthful. When the idea of intelligence, rather than intelligence itself, becomes a staple, there is no wisdom in it."
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    "When dealing with people, remember you are not dealing with creatures of logic, but creatures of emotion."
    "Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain but it takes character and self control to be understanding and forgiving."
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  3. #3
    Senior Member ThaumaturgicTheorist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obfuscate View Post
    this isn't what you are looking for, but i had no idea that indifference towards death was common among nines.. given that i have settled on 9w1 for myself, i found it helpful in confirming my self "diagnosis"....
    Not necessarily indifference to death only, but a severe lack of attachment to one's self, one's body, one's existence - that, if anything, is what's really unrelateble, to me at least. I don't care about much of anything, but it's a painful state to be in. I can relate to the fear of being fully present - but I don't enjoy the detachment.

    If anything, I'm still trying to find a typoloical explanation for how obsessively aware I can be of my body.
    ISFP/ESI
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    "My cognitive functions include Introverted Feeling and Introverted Suffering."

  4. #4
    Egad! No bondage! Obfuscate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThaumaturgicTheorist View Post
    Not necessarily indifference to death only, but a severe lack of attachment to one's self, one's body, one's existence - that, if anything, is what's really unrelateble, to me at least. I don't care about much of anything, but it's a painful state to be in. I can relate to the fear of being fully present - but I don't enjoy the detachment.

    If anything, I'm still trying to find a typoloical explanation for how obsessively aware I can be of my body.
    i am aware of my body/situation, but that doesn't imply undue concern (in my case)...
    "The vanity of intelligence is that the intelligent man is often more committed to 'one-upping' his opponent than being truthful. When the idea of intelligence, rather than intelligence itself, becomes a staple, there is no wisdom in it."
    Criss Jami

    "When dealing with people, remember you are not dealing with creatures of logic, but creatures of emotion."
    "Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain but it takes character and self control to be understanding and forgiving."
    Dale Carnegie

  5. #5
    Paranoid Android Video's Avatar
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    I think you were in the right track with a reactive type, but rather than 6's way, I see you react predominantly like this:

    Introjection is a counter-intuitive defense mechanism. Instead of repelling critical information and negative experiences that can cause a person anxiety or pain, individuals introject the information – that is, they fully absorb, internalize, and incorporate these data into their sense of self. Fritz Perls, the father of Gestalt Therapy, refers to this phenomenon as swallowing something whole without being able to differentiate between information that is true from information that is untrue. Fours introject negative information – and repel positive data – about themselves as a way of coping with painful information and neutralizing external threats. They prefer to deal with self-inflicted damage rather than having to respond to criticism or rejection from others.

    Link
    It might look like you project a dark and unforgiving world into reality, but I have noted that when it comes down to actually interacting with reality, the "projection" is reserved just for you to inhabit, and you respond to others more mercifully when they do things that you'd seem unacceptable in yourself. That is what may make it an introjection instead.

    The reason I respond to your topics like this one is because you behave like a time clone of me from several years ago. Do you relate to the following, which I realized over time in my own case?

    If you are like me, especially me when I was younger, what you do outwardly is test out incredibly rigid ideas (which the Fi-Ni rabbit hole is prime for producing, despite the stereotype of ISFP fluidity) about the world not because they are your genuine beliefs but because you dearly hope to find out that they are not true. The more intense my negative reaction was to said ideas, the less I'd be aware of that motivating hope, because it came from a very dark core fear: that if said ideas were the truth about the real world, said world would be one I was uniquely unsuited for thriving in.

    If that is off the mark after all, apologies if it came on too strong.
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  6. #6
    metamorphosing Flâneuse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThaumaturgicTheorist View Post
    Not necessarily indifference to death only, but a severe lack of attachment to one's self, one's body, one's existence - that, if anything, is what's really unrelateble, to me at least.
    I don't know you well enough to confidently try to type you - I just wanted to chime in on this comment, as an e9 who is sure of their type. I can really relate to bolded at times, and when I was depressed that pretty much summed up my attitude towards life. There's this really simplistic existential hopelessness - this feeling that, at its core, nothing really means anything, especially not my own experience...that nothing is worth being attached to, because attachment equals pain and why should I feel pain for something that means absolutely nothing? I was never actively suicidal, but there was a feeling that I would welcome death if it happened to come early. I don't think this is common for average-to-healthy Nines, but I do believe, from both my own experiences and what I've read by other Nines, that for unhealthy or depressed Nines it's a pretty common sentiment.

    If you don't relate to this at all it doesn't necessarily mean you're not an e9 though - no one relates to every tendency attributed to their type.

  7. #7
    Senior Member ThaumaturgicTheorist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alaska View Post
    It might look like you project a dark and unforgiving world into reality, but I have noted that when it comes down to actually interacting with reality, the "projection" is reserved just for you to inhabit, and you respond to others more mercifully when they do things that you'd seem unacceptable in yourself. That is what may make it an introjection instead.
    Dead on. I'm too nice and forgiving for my own good with others, but will rip myself to shreds for the same kinds of mistakes.

    If you are like me, especially me when I was younger, what you do outwardly is test out incredibly rigid ideas (which the Fi-Ni rabbit hole is prime for producing, despite the stereotype of ISFP fluidity) about the world not because they are your genuine beliefs but because you dearly hope to find out that they are not true. The more intense my negative reaction was to said ideas, the less I'd be aware of that motivating hope, because it came from a very dark core fear: that if said ideas were the truth about the real world, said world would be one I was uniquely unsuited for thriving in.
    Wow. Um...that's really accurate. Like, wow, ouch. I know when I write crazy shiz online, I only half believe it: it's exaggerated versions of things I really believe, or see promoted elsewhere. Something that arouses a lot of feelings in me; the stronger the feelings, the more I feel compelled to try to get feedback on them, from anywhere - and the more any reasonable analysis gets thrown out the window. Some sleep, food, or time away from the thought can make me more rational.

    And yes, there's always a terror that the real way of the world is something intensely rigid, vicious, and completely unsuited for me. Or, more appropriately, I'm unsuited for it.

    I just wanna be good dammit.

    Quote Originally Posted by lumi View Post
    I don't know you well enough to confidently try to type you - I just wanted to chime in on this comment, as an e9 who is sure of their type. I can really relate to bolded at times, and when I was depressed that pretty much summed up my attitude towards life. There's this really simplistic existential hopelessness - this feeling that, at its core, nothing really means anything, especially not my own experience...that nothing is worth being attached to, because attachment equals pain and why should I feel pain for something that means absolutely nothing?
    And then there's me, grasping at any kind of meaningfulness - afraid of living "wrong", anguished by boredom and emptiness, and eager for something meaningful enough to have to worry, or to bring myself into line.
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    "My cognitive functions include Introverted Feeling and Introverted Suffering."

  8. #8
    Senior Member Neokortex's Avatar
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    I noticed an interesting tendency in Asians being 9s. Something to do with their culture. Guess you have to find a 3w2 to motivate you reach your ideals.

  9. #9
    Nyarlathotep ESFJ's Avatar
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    Assuming they're not just incapable of seeing their own depression, I'd say those people were over-identifying with 9. That is, 9 is their identity. In which case, sure, they can be nines I will allow it but they're not exactly what I'd consider good benchmarks for comparison. But yes, the perfect, epitomizing-and yet somehow characteristically nine naturalistic-portrayal of nine they seem to be building into the external, the fact that they almost seem to be proud of laziness, conflict-avoidance, emptiness, and indifference all seem to point in that direction. Watching myself, negative aspects of the self can be dealt with best when they serve the purpose of identity creation. Pretending is for other people, nines become, nines are. Which is perhaps why I find my own numerical brothers and sisters the least grating in their identity based attempts to be loved. But alas, at this point, who can persecute anyone in that arena knowing the reason.
    In that which is night to all things, therein the self-subjugated remains awake; but where all else is awake, that is night for the knower of the self.
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  10. #10
    Senior Member ThaumaturgicTheorist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ESFJ View Post
    Assuming they're not just incapable of seeing their own depression, I'd say those people were over-identifying with 9. That is, 9 is their identity. In which case, sure, they can be nines I will allow it but they're not exactly what I'd consider good benchmarks for comparison. But yes, the perfect, epitomizing-and yet somehow characteristically nine naturalistic-portrayal of nine they seem to be building into the external, the fact that they almost seem to be proud of laziness, conflict-avoidance, emptiness, and indifference all seem to point in that direction. Watching myself, negative aspects of the self can be dealt with best when they serve the purpose of identity creation. Pretending is for other people, nines become, nines are. Which is perhaps why I find my own numerical brothers and sisters the least grating in their identity based attempts to be loved. But alas, at this point, who can persecute anyone in that arena knowing the reason.
    That's a really good point - I've only seen it called out a couple of other times on personality sites, how Enneagram Nines seem to be strangely proud of being lazy, spineless, having no personality. I've joked about it myself in the past. Not to mention a rather literal interpretation of our type's passion that most other type don't have - I've seen other Enneatypes on forums flat out deny their passion, or only admit to it in a nuanced, metaphorical way. Nines? "lol, I'm so freaking lazy, I'm such a procrastinator, I haven't done anything productive all week."

    And then there's me. Yeah, I'm one of the laziest mofos you'll ever meet. Never had to work "hard", never learned, and kind of disdain it in certain arenas (for reasons). I don't have much of a personality and certain potentials for conflict terrify me - and I hate it! The former is unbelieveably depressing and the latter just makes me kick myself when I know I could have said/done something but was too afraid to. I'm too nice and too trusting for my own damn good, and it's really just luck it's never landed me in any serious trouble.

    I do have the stereotypical Nineish inertia: I'm one of those people who will swear up and down I want something, then do next to nothing to get it. At most, I'll plan how to get it - then spend forever fantasizing about it, until something else catches my attention.

    I fought against typing as a Nine because I didn't want to be some empty shell, some boring blob of nothing who's only gift is 'simplicity' and 'being nice' (seriously. "Nice" is not a gift or anything special. It's the bare minimum for being a decent person). Like, can't I be something more interesting? More dramatic, beautiful, whole?
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    "My cognitive functions include Introverted Feeling and Introverted Suffering."
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