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  1. #1
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    Default Calling the Dauntless (E4 SP/SX)

    CORRECTION: Dauntless are E4 SP, SX not necessary.

    It seems that e4's are much more diverse between instinctual stackings, and also very divergent from the normal stacking descriptions. A good example is the e4 sp, which is often titled as "Dauntless." They tend to exhibit behaviors that bring to mind either sx or e6 counterphobic behaviour. Here's a description:

    Enneagram Central - Subtype Four Self Preservation

    ...

    Self-Preservation Fours are termed Dauntless by the Enneagram tradition. The compulsion is to spice things up in order to make sure that I am special. To avoid the ordinary, Self-Preservation Fours take reckless chances, are drawn to the bizarre, even death, and see their lives as catastrophes. An Enneagram coach might reframe a chronicle of emotional turmoil as bragging: "I have more turmoil than anyone."

    ...
    How do you relate to this description? Tell me about your experiences of dauntless behavior. If you're an e4 of any stacking or an e6, do you find any familiarity in this? Is this the same as being counterphobic?

  2. #2
    libtard SJW chickpea's Avatar
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    yes, i relate quite a bit. i consider sp-dom on occasion, but only because of the 4-specific descriptions and not the general ones. i'm not sure which is supposed to be more relevant.

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  4. #4
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    I relate more to the Naranjo description of the sp 4 or to oceanmoonshine's than the "dauntless" descripion here. On that site, the sx 4 fits me better. It seems at odds with other takes on the subtypes for 4, because most make the sx 4 to be the extreme, competative one who "acts out", not the sp 4.

    I don't think I am a huge risk-taker with safety, although safety is not much of an issue in my mind, so sometimes I do things out of naivete.

    SP to me is a kind of deluded self-soothing which actually becomes masochism. There is "envy denial", aka, I don't want the shame of needing anyone/anything, and so I comfort myself. I compensate for bad feelings with indulgences and creativity. This is masochistic because it cuts me off from other people or is too indulgent (ie retail therapy), and the isolation fuels other 4 fixations (being defective, insignificant, ashamed, etc). I think sp 4s are the most self-contained 4s, although I am less like that with age. I was super withdrawn as an adolescent and teen, and as a young child, I was very independent and disliked any sense of "need" or vulnerability with people. I don't know how much of this could be 5 wing and introversion stuff though.

    I also struggle with caring for myself practically - I dont manage sleep schedules or regular eating well. It can be too little or too much. That's a common N issue though too.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe
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  5. #5
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    It was this description that made me decide on my instinctual stacking, I relate to very much. I was trying to find it when I created this thread, but I ran out of time:

    Sandra Maitri: The Spiritual Dimensions of the Enneagram

    Self-Preservation 4: Dauntlessness
    The term given by Ichazo for Self-preservation Fours is defensive action, as opposed to dauntlessness, which Naranjo associated with this subtype. Ichazo, quoted by John Lilly and Joseph Hart, defines defensive action as "protecting one's dream of the future." Rather than be limited by their circumstances, they wil rashly go after what they want and feel that they must have to survive. They take action to preserve themselves but do not consider the consequences, and actually put their survival in peril. A Self-preservation Four might, for instance, buy herself all sorts of beautiful things that she feels she can't live without, and end up sliding deeply into debt. Or, feeling unable to bear the constraints of a boring job, she might throw caution to the wind and on the spur of the moment buy herself a ticket to some exotic island. The passion of envy manifests here as wanting the security and material gratificatons others seem to possess, and recklessly striking out to get them.
    I have a very specific relationship to my material needs, they feel very much like an extension of me. I've had depression in the past, which manifested in despairing in how little what surrounded me reflected me. I tend towards austere and spartan, but it's a very conscious and forefront choice as a reflection of my inner world.

    I have a friend, who I believe is INFP 4w3 sp/sx, and he sounds much more like you describe. He is supremely aesthetic towards the indulgent side. But the guy is as or more impulsive than I am. And, it happens in similar patterns, usually in connection to maintaining or procuring an aesthetic, be it retaining a ragged edge, baffling onlookers, or filling out some sort of narrative he created for himself.

    His living room is indie midmodern and oh so hip, and his bathroom is the most depressing thing I've seen in my life and his kitchen unused.

  6. #6
    Awake Starry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    CORRECTION: Dauntless are E4 SP, SX not necessary.

    It seems that e4's are much more diverse between instinctual stackings, and also very divergent from the normal stacking descriptions. A good example is the e4 sp, which is often titled as "Dauntless." They tend to exhibit behaviors that bring to mind either sx or e6 counterphobic behaviour. Here's a description:

    Enneagram Central - Subtype Four Self Preservation



    How do you relate to this description? Tell me about your experiences of dauntless behavior. If you're an e4 of any stacking or an e6, do you find any familiarity in this? Is this the same as being counterphobic?


    Kurt Cobain is in the media again with the release of this latest documentary (which I recently learned the daughter created and/or produced?) And so I thought I would say that I had always typed him sx/sp. <-And by that I mean...that was the extent of it. IOW, I could never decide for myself whether I thought he was 4w5 or 5w4. But he obviously possessed the "most conflicted" instinctual stacking...that being the always interesting sx/sp.

    That was until I saw @chickpea type him as sp/sx...which immediately called to mind this description I would have never thought to consider previously. And it was a true 'holy shit' moment. chickpea had made typing Kurt Cobain a billion times easier...and something the whole family can enjoy.


    I do take some issue with the description... I've never liked the use of the word "special"...in all 4 descriptions...but especially for the 4 sp. All image types have the greatest capacity for authenticity imo...but for every *flashy* 4 sp...there will be an entirely down-to-earth, humble albeit aggressive 4 sp as well. To me it's about significance or "standing up and being accounted for" as opposed to being understood as *special.* A lot of 4s over-embrace the ordinary and flawed because there's Truth in those things. And it's this relationship with what is profoundly real that does make a good deal of 4 sps drawn to birth and death and blood and guts...but not automatically in a depressive, forlorn way. There are a good number of 4s that maintain a sense of optimism via the 4/7 wormhole (which should not to be confused with positive outlook...just in case there's anyone around that seems to present with high degree of that strictly 7 side of the whole thing...)

    Anyway, I'm not going to mention her because I know she doesn't like people typing her... but to make this point I'm left with no choice.

    prplchz is about as 4w5 sp as it gets.
    Walk first through the fire.


    *Currently participating in the "No Likes" experiment.
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  7. #7
    Senior Member senza tema's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    It was this description that made me decide on my instinctual stacking, I relate to very much. I was trying to find it when I created this thread, but I ran out of time:



    I have a very specific relationship to my material needs, they feel very much like an extension of me. I've had depression in the past, which manifested in despairing in how little what surrounded me reflected me. I tend towards austere and spartan, but it's a very conscious and forefront choice as a reflection of my inner world.

    I have a friend, who I believe is INFP 4w3 sp/sx, and he sounds much more like you describe. He is supremely aesthetic towards the indulgent side. But the guy is as or more impulsive than I am. And, it happens in similar patterns, usually in connection to maintaining or procuring an aesthetic, be it retaining a ragged edge, baffling onlookers, or filling out some sort of narrative he created for himself.

    His living room is indie midmodern and oh so hip, and his bathroom is the most depressing thing I've seen in my life and his kitchen unused.
    It's interesting that you're saying this because I don't usually see ENFPs as very physically or materially oriented at all. I guess a fixation on personal style and physical manifestations thereof could be a 4 sp thing ...
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  8. #8
    sifting Hard's Avatar
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    I actually relate to this partially. I think it's because of two reasons, I am sp, and 4 is where 1's dissolve to. To further support this, this tends to be more frequent with me when I am not doing so hot. That said I am actively repelled by the whole "specialness" thing and I sprint in the opposite direction if I catch myself or think I am doing or thinking anything that is trying to promote that for the sake of. *gag* Or worse, thinking that I have it worse than everyone and "no one understands me", I ABSOLUTELY HATE MYSELF when I get in modes like that. I won't actively think that, but subconsciously by getting stuck in disaster "no way out" black and white thinking, and overall thinking "dooooommmmm". When I come out of it I feel like I need to scour myself with a steel will brillow pad in a bath of acid.

    The biggest thing is I am hugely drawn to the bizarre, particularly if it has a dark twist or is surreal (I love surrealism). While I actively look for moments in life that are fulfilling and exciting, there is a part of me that is woefully bored with reality and wishes the extraordinary were real. The desire for that increases when things are bad and I am not being fulfilled. Either way diving into fantasy is definitely a thing, in particular if it's grounded in reality in some way (that makes it feel more "real").
    MBTI: ExxJ tetramer
    Functions: Fe > Te > Ni > Se > Si > Ti > Fi > Ne
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    Socionics: β-E dimer | -
    Big 5: slOaI
    Temperament: Choleric/Melancholic
    Alignment: Lawful Neutral
    External Perception: Nohari and Johari

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  9. #9
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    This brief description works better for me (from enneagram worldwide):

    Self-preservation: Dauntlessness – The Creative Individualist
    This subtype is willing to jump into new situations, to pack up and move, to get going or take risks when the preservation instinct is triggered, or when an authentic life seems elsewhere. To others, these actions may seem reckless, like throwing caution to the wind, but it can work well with an unorthodox, creative or artistic style. The tension here is between wanting to acquire material security and feeling detached from it all.


    More on Naranjo's sp 4 later.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe
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  10. #10
    Senior Member Entropic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    I actually relate to this partially. I think it's because of two reasons, I am sp, and 4 is where 1's dissolve to. To further support this, this tends to be more frequent with me when I am not doing so hot. That said I am actively repelled by the whole "specialness" thing and I sprint in the opposite direction if I catch myself or think I am doing or thinking anything that is trying to promote that for the sake of. *gag* Or worse, thinking that I have it worse than everyone and "no one understands me", I ABSOLUTELY HATE MYSELF when I get in modes like that. I won't actively think that, but subconsciously by getting stuck in disaster "no way out" black and white thinking, and overall thinking "dooooommmmm". When I come out of it I feel like I need to scour myself with a steel will brillow pad in a bath of acid.

    The biggest thing is I am hugely drawn to the bizarre, particularly if it has a dark twist or is surreal (I love surrealism). While I actively look for moments in life that are fulfilling and exciting, there is a part of me that is woefully bored with reality and wishes the extraordinary were real. The desire for that increases when things are bad and I am not being fulfilled. Either way diving into fantasy is definitely a thing, in particular if it's grounded in reality in some way (that makes it feel more "real").
    I know a 1 who reacts exactly like this as well. I share a somewhat similar repulsion for 5s.

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