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  1. #1
    Honeyed Water thoughtlost's Avatar
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    Default 4s: is this what you're really like?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAYS9d6V0UU

    @OrangeAppled and @Southern Kross

    ...I am just wondering because it would be great if I could finally understand what being a 4 is about. It doesn't look as "dramatic" as I thought (if he is a 4)... kind of reminds me of me a tad =P
    You are so arbitrary.

  2. #2
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Some of what he describes is relatable, but I think his mom had a point about these being common human feelings. 4s don't experience clinical depression necessarily; it's more of a demeanor and mentality than true depression.

    The guy's demeanor here is unrelatable to me. His manner of expressing doesn't feel familiar, but then this is obviously a rehearsed or "acted" monologue by him, not a spontaneous, vulnerable soliloquy.

    I do feel times of pure, unadultered joy. I don't immediately have a negative voice in my head that counters these experiences and feelings. However, a fantasy or expectation may grow out of it, and then when it goes unfullfilled, the original positive value is tarnished. It now is just a dashed hope, a false alarm, a promise that led to disappointment, instead of being able to exist as something good in itself. But in the moment, I can truly feel a good emotion, and it can be very strong (whether I display it or not); I would say that I swing from elation to despair rather quickly.

    Some of this may be an auxiliary Ne issue - things are good when brimming with potential, when possibility seems on the verge of expression. The actual results always pale in comparison.

    Once I fulfill something, even satisfactorily, I may then hone in on something else that seems lacking. I feel an inability to find balance. If one area of life is going well, then another seems to be a mess or just empty.

    Or I may have thought something was good and truly felt it at the time, then later I may think I was delusional (ie someone seems to like me, but later I seem it was politeness at best). This can make me distrust good feelings, so once their initial high wears off, they seem less "real". The sadness seems to reveal something deeper about reality, and so it becomes the basis for interpretation, the overarching pattern. Something is more reliably real when sad. I think a stereotypical average 4 attitude is that happiness is kind of shallow and fake, and this may be why. I think this is probably poor Si in an NFP also. It is the idea that sureness and constancy is sad, suffocating, etc, and that fleeting, fickle exuberance that suggests something (but may never deliver it) is where positivity lies.

    In order to keep that forward momentum to stave off the sinking feeling about reality, you have to have frequent change to provide context for new potential. But to realize potential, you often have to put in steady effort. That's where I may fail, because the steadiness I associate with the sureness of disappointment, and I lose motivation, and then the fantasy never manifests. Then all the intitial positive feeling is tainted....it's all part of one larger experience of disappointment.

    To refer to the video....the guy thinks someone likes him, but then later decides it must be that they pity him. My interpretation of things can swing like a pendulum because the initial experience does not go anywhere, or it may seem to go downhill. That will make me think my initial estimation was a delusion, and that the larger pattern shows this.It probably takes an excessive amount of repeat positive results for something not to get soured for me. I don't tend to discount negative experience so readily, however.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe
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  3. #3
    Honeyed Water thoughtlost's Avatar
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    ah, I see.

    Yeah the best way I can relate to what you say you feel as a 4 (being a 6 myself) is not getting my hopes up or naturally devaluing whatever it is that could potentially make me happy is a safer option (but really it just prevents me from actually living a life)... it ensures that I don't feel like I am missing out on great things because there is nothing that I'd want. Anyway... it really is two totally different experiences so that is really cool.
    You are so arbitrary.

  4. #4
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Sorry for the late reply...
    Quote Originally Posted by thoughtlost View Post
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAYS9d6V0UU @OrangeAppled and @Southern Kross

    ...I am just wondering because it would be great if I could finally understand what being a 4 is about. It doesn't look as "dramatic" as I thought (if he is a 4)... kind of reminds me of me a tad =P
    I agree with much of what @OrangeAppled said. Some additional thoughts:

    I think what's quite significant about that is the way he talks about depression. He's obviously a 4w3, so will be a lot more expressive than myself (and as OA said, it is performative) but I identify with the emotional clarity. He isn't engaging in or communicating those negative emotions directly but manages to articulate them with deep, intellectual awareness and dark humour (something I also very much relate to). This is different from the moping and whining drama queen image of 4s you usually get.

    8s are known for their aggressive tendencies and some would portray them as very angry people. But it isn't anger in the traditional sense - ie. the loss of self-control and indulging in unfettered fury. Of course 8s will occasionally be like this (all types will), more so if they're unhealthy, but it isn't typically indicative of their type. I read one description of 8s as having "lucid anger" which I think is apt. They have clarity in anger; they communicate through the anger, not from a place of anger. I think that "lucidity" applies to 4s and their qualities too: alienation, self-examination, emotional awareness, the pursuit of intense feeling etc. We often talk through the feeling not from the feeling. That's why the guy uses humour, particularly irony and sarcasm, skirting around the issue and communicating it indirectly. He's making fun of it, but in reality, he's only really half-joking (I do the same thing). I think 4s often feel awkward about openly indulging in emotional extravagance - 4w3s like to shape and channel it into more useful expressions, and 4w5 like to withhold it altogether or quietly release it in highly controlled conditions. For so called 'dramatic' people, we are often remarkably matter-of-fact about feeling.
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte
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  5. #5
    I am Fay's Avatar
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    The kid is just depressed, why should all depressed people be 4s? Maybe he's not even depressed, he's just an adolescent who hasn't found his place yet... To me it seems like he doesn't really know what depression is and feels like, that just sounds like a lot of nonsense put into an extremely small box full ineffective stereotypes.... No!
    4w3-7w6-1w9 so/sx
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  6. #6
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    Yeah, I haven't answered to the O.P., because I feel like it's makes an assumption that being clinically depressed is a 4 trait. I don't exactly relate to this person as far as his form of expression, from this video I am not sure I know enough to type him.
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  7. #7
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thoughtlost View Post
    ah, I see.

    Yeah the best way I can relate to what you say you feel as a 4 (being a 6 myself) is not getting my hopes up or naturally devaluing whatever it is that could potentially make me happy is a safer option (but really it just prevents me from actually living a life)... it ensures that I don't feel like I am missing out on great things because there is nothing that I'd want. Anyway... it really is two totally different experiences so that is really cool.
    It's almost opposite, if you think about it. A 4 hopes perpetually in a masochistic way, and then is dejected when reality fails to deliver, despite expecting it to fail. This hope is fantasy and longing which may get stronger the less it is fulfilled. 4s scorn safe options and set their sights on the difficult, impossible or unlikely (the "great" things) as the only means of fulfillment, so that they are in that perpetual state of disappointment and unfulfillment.

    I agree with SK's point, except that I am not convinced the guy in the video is a 4, given that he is acting.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe
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  8. #8
    Senior Member Auto/Virtuosi=L.A.P.'s Avatar
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    This guy is ISTP, 7w6.
    And there I stood... The devil of a command that featured death...

  9. #9
    Fabula rasa Kas's Avatar
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    It is unlikely that he is depressed, he is frustrated and angry and behaves like he drunk a bucket (or two) of coffee. It's hard for me to concentrate on what he is saying. It's clear that the way he speaks is something I can't relate to. He is very dramatic and expressive. Even when I dramatize I do it inside. Seriously after seeing this video I'm not even sure if the guy is 4 . The only thing I can relate to is focusing on analyzing emotions and that's it.
    “The world is full of obvious things which nobody by any chance ever observes." A.C. Doyle

    The No Likes Experiment.


  10. #10
    Honeyed Water thoughtlost's Avatar
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    I have another question about 4s. I saw this article, The Resilience of 4s | Nine Paths

    and it made me reflect on my own experience knowing 4s. Not all 4s go through such intense experiences like the Holocaust. In fact, the 4s I know (...trying to preserve the 4 ego here lol) live quite normal lives due to circumstance (born into a caring family that let's their child follow their passions and don't really have to experience intense emotions that come from horrible life situations). Still, they need to see their lives in a special, unique and "intense" way to "feel" deeply and create inner turmoil in themselves.

    I have a feeling this article is just serving to boost up the ego of a 4 even more (unless the 4 is not wrapped up in how "OH SO SPECIAL" they are) because a 4 uses their emotions mostly to escape seeing themselves as everyone else and to see themselves as "better/different/special" than others to feel like they is something worthy in them.

    As a non-4, I feel like the article describes how a 9 would experience the Holocaust. Like... life can get SO BAD that they have to escape (heck, I am like this and I 1000000% fell in love with Victor Frankl as a high schooler).

    I am sure a 4 (or any type) can experience the Holocaust this way, but my understanding of the average 4 is that their goal in life is to fall in love with themselves because no one else will. Is that correct?

    I get that having an ego isn't unique to 4 ...but the whole "I am better than anyone else" is how I know someone MIGHT be a 4 ...not that fact that they simply can find meaning by inhumane conditions. Does that make sense? Or am I making out the average 4 to be more egotistical than they actually are?
    You are so arbitrary.

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