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  1. #1
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Default Another view on the 8

    Well after reading some descriptions about the Enneagram 8 on the internet and from the forums now, I decided to give you the source, I have drawn my Point of View about the 8 from.

    It is translated from german and I hope I didnt destroy its meaning. It takes a more spiritual / humanistic approach. It is less about structured analysis and thinking-based ways to look at things.

    What I want to accomplish is not to shed some better light on a personality that is interpreted as the "overbearing controlling tyrann", I want to show something about their motives and I think that exerpt fits em well.

    Ok here it is (1:1 translation, hope it is readable):

    Type Eight
    ---
    Live wires
    -
    Eights are often recognized on first sight, because they are taller than life. They bring their influence to bear and draw attention to themselves. They enter a room buzzing and everybody knows that they are there. They are often louder and stronger than the rest of us. They draw their energy from experiencing their own strength. They are live wires. The energy of the eight is reflected in their gestures, their faces - and it is taxing to others.
    -
    Simply too much !
    -
    If you spent half an hour together with an eight, you want to flee. It is too much, it is simply too much ! That is meant when talked about the "voluptuousness" of the eight. Everything they do, they exaggerate. And they do it in a way, others would call "negative".
    -
    Confrontation
    -
    They meet reality confrontational. For this "confrontational intimacy" others do not have the appreciation for. Their advances are to start to argument with you. And one could think the eight does not like me. In reality the eight tries to come closer to others by behaving this way. And the eight is surprised at the others backing out. In their inner world eights are often sad and they ask themselves: "Why does nobody like me?" Nevertheless they do not change their rules of their game. They always try the same "advance".
    -
    Bad boys
    -
    While ones are sample childs, eights are bad boys. Their self-perception is: "I am upsetting". And they even like it to be "upsetting". One can imagine, how much problems eights have with church, where you are told: "Be nice and honest and good and pious". That makes no sense to an eight. The good guys are to eights sissies or cowards.
    -
    Altercation
    -
    An eight woman explained, she needed 40 years to develop confidence in Jesus. Because like Jesus was portraied - as blond, blue-eyed softie, who looks down smilieing on children - he did not tell her anything. This Jesus was not worth of her loving. Eights need someone, who get with them engaged into an altercation.
    -
    Justice
    -
    Eights do have, by factory design, a sense for justice. They see the dumbness and injustice in the world and they love to unmask it. They want to put mischief down. Without the eight the world would probably never change. One would get along with the dumbest systems.
    -
    Fighter
    -
    One should never try to challenge the eight. If you raise your voices, the eight raises his voice even higher. They love to fight and their is no price they would retreat for.
    -
    Hidden child
    -
    The key to the eight is to see the little boy or girl in them. You sometimes do not see it, but it is there all the time. They tend to show it in their whole life only to two or three other people. If eights start to behave like a wild and start bitching and roaring around and if you want to back off, it is the best to speak to the hidden child in them. Expect it that there is a hidden child.
    -
    The Protector
    -
    Eights try constantly to protect the little boys and girls in this world, everything that is weak and vulnerable. In the Developing World there are many missionaries, who are eights. They are ready to go through unbelievable offensivenesses. They take the greatest privations to help those people, who are in need of help. Their love towards the weak and vulnerable is boundless.
    -
    Passion
    -
    So if you try to inflate yourself and play the eight on them, they prick your ballon. But if you come weak and vulnerable, they will care for you out of their heart. At the end of their lives, eights sometimes carry a great burden around. They think about how many people, there have been who did not like them or who they have hurted. They actually stomp on others and spurn them. Their passion is equally their sin and their gift.
    For eight this means: they have to overcome their devastating passions and they need to make way for life-making passions.
    ---

    That is about it, thanks for reading, if you did so.

    I think based on this description, their is no need for an Eight to be prone to a Te - function for example. With an existence based on passions.

    Especially the last part about passions, I can rely to. And I find it very frightening..
    Likes Typh0n liked this post

  2. #2
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Oh my.. perhaps I'm a little more 8 than I thought.....

    Introverted 8... how's that fly? I meet my internal reality with force?????
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  3. #3
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    Oh, entropie, I love this! It presents a fair and balanced view of the eight's place in society. As in all personality types it's a matter of motive and the quality of the "product" their acts create.

    "Confrontational intimacy." A perfect phrase. Hee.

    The point about the hidden wounded child, I think, is the key to helping eights with their anger issues.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  4. #4
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Oh my.. perhaps I'm a little more 8 than I thought.....

    Introverted 8... how's that fly? I meet my internal reality with force?????
    I do not think that enneagram makes differences between intro- and extroverted.

    There was that good thread from haphazard about "Intro- and Extroversion in society". She made two axis and she put entp for example wide on the energy extroversion scale, less on the social extroversion scale. That would meet the specifications for the eight .

    As concerned with your personal in- or extroversion. There are always to main functions that drive you, from which one is extroverted. My guess is an introverted 8 will have an harder time on that "self-sadness" thing.

    Here is the link to the description, btw.:

    Die neun Typen

  5. #5
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    I do not think that enneagram makes differences between intro- and extroverted.

    There was that good thread from haphazard about "Intro- and Extroversion in society". She made to axis and she put entp for example wide on the energy extroversion scale, less on the social extroversion scale. That would meet the specifications for the eight .

    As concerned with your personal in- or extroversion. There are always to main functions that drive you, from which one is extroverted. My guess is an introverted 8 will have an harder time on that "self-sadness" thing.

    Here is the link to the description, btw.:

    Die neun Typen
    Thanks but I'm afriad my german is far too rusty to be useful..

    I'm thinking that someone's prediction of 9w8 may be closer than I thought... I'm almost assuredly a 9 but I'd not have thought of myself as an 8. They're too.... disruptive, or so I thought. Reading that post it makes more sense that it's disruption to clear the refuse and not just because an 8 cannot be bothered or is unfamiliar with more refined methods.

    Oh and I wasn't thinking that my enneagram had any influence on my introversion or extroversion, merely the combination got me thinking...
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  6. #6
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    @Anja , thanks

    @Xander ok. And thank you too. I really want to get that overall wrong interpretation of 8's from the table

    If you look for example in the wikipedia Enneagram of Personality - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, even the first sentence about 8's is wrong.

    Eights do not want to be in control. Maybe my english is too bad to get the meaning but too me it just delivers a completly wrong impression of 8's already in the first place.

    Btw.:

    Ego fixation: vengeance , *rofl*

    If I get that dumbass, who wrote this, I am going to show him vengeance xD

  7. #7
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    I really want to get that overall wrong interpretation of 8's from the table
    That's actually what makes me chuckle when people write about 9s being push overs... INTP 9... I have lines... no one crosses them..... and lives.


    I guess it's the same plague as that which hampers the MBTI, people expect those of a type to display the well known characteristics. That just doesn't happen. With a group of people you may well find that the ESFJ is the quiet one who does little and the INTJ is ruling the roost. Hell when we get a bunch of introverts together it's the extroverts who usually end up quiet and fidgity
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  8. #8
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    I guess it's the same plague as that which hampers the MBTI, people expect those of a type to display the well known characteristics. That just doesn't happen. With a group of people you may well find that the ESFJ is the quiet one who does little and the INTJ is ruling the roost. Hell when we get a bunch of introverts together it's the extroverts who usually end up quiet and fidgity
    I absolutely agree. The next great mystery I will set my mind too is the ENTJ. I do not know already, if I am right about the fact that ENTJ's get completly misinterpretated, but I am going to find out.

  9. #9
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    I absolutely agree. The next great mystery I will set my mind too is the ENTJ. I do not know already, if I am right about the fact that ENTJ's get completly misinterpretated, but I am going to find out.
    Yup. The whole "ENTJs are malicious and controlling" is completely missing the point where the ENTJ is trying to plan including people... it's just they frustrated as all NTs do with "stupid" people. Those who resist the new thinking not because they have something better but just because they can't understand it.

    ENTJ = big huggable bear (just don't tell them I said so )
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  10. #10
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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