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Thread: Another view on the 8

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    Wurstverkäufer Array entropie's Avatar
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    Lost Frequencies - All or Nothing

    "People do not like you to be different. If ever in your life you act differently from others, you will find it so, mademoiselle."
    ~Saint's Progress by John Galsworthy

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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    move me please
    loooser

  3. #73
    Wurstverkäufer Array entropie's Avatar
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    Not necessarily the most diplomatic way to move someone
    Lost Frequencies - All or Nothing

    "People do not like you to be different. If ever in your life you act differently from others, you will find it so, mademoiselle."
    ~Saint's Progress by John Galsworthy

  4. #74
    Senior Member Array Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Damn I had never read this. That part about passions is 100% me.

    Trying to be a balanced 8 is like trying swing dance in a hurricane.
    I told you you were an 8.


    Being a type 8 among so many TJs is weird. I relate to almost everything in the OP, but I consider myself extremely open-minded and accepting as opposed to enforcing (well, I am 8w7...I don't like to control). I also am very confortable with feelings and being introspective...the 8s I know tend to be jerks who are too dumb to realize you don't need to be overbearing to be strong. Also, I have zero fascination for the "leader" position. I actually kinda always looked down upon people who wanted to lead. The craving of power is in my opinion a sign of weakness. I actually think I tend to clash with other 8s (the ones without strong wings, unlike myself). But maybe it's because I haven't found a balanced 8.

    Which btw Disco, I don't think it's that hard. Certainly not harder than being a balanced *insert any other Enneagram type number here*.



    I love the term "confrontational intimacy". And people kid about how I'm sometimes misunderstood...
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  5. #75
    Meat Tornado Array DiscoBiscuit's Avatar
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    Agree with you on your last point. Every type has their cross to bear.

    The craving of power is in my opinion a sign of weakness. I actually think I tend to clash with other 8s (the ones without strong wings, unlike myself). But maybe it's because I haven't found a balanced 8.
    The only reason I seek to lead, is that I'm afraid to live in a world ruled by the people who rule it now.
    Your representative owes you, not his industry only, but his judgment; and he betrays, instead of serving you, if he sacrifices it to your opinion.
    - Edmund Burke

    8w9 sx/so

  6. #76
    Senior Member Array Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    The only reason I seek to lead, is that I'm afraid to live in a world ruled by the people who rule it now.
    MellowMarcello once said : "Most 8w7s aren't (controlling) and see controlling things as a messy business. The 8w7 mindset is to control the minimum needed to avoid being controlled themselves(8w7s reframe losing power as being controlled)."

    I don't mind being ruled as long as the person legitimately rised to such a position and if it's in some sort of democracy (meaning I have my degree of power and rights myself). Direct control though....I'm always resistant to that (I mean the president might issue a law that affects me..but it's not quite the same as someone who I deal with daily; and the president has some sort of legitimicy). I don't want to control anyone. And I don't want anyone controlling me. Live and let live.

    More important than healthy values being respected is that the populace was given the liberty to choose. So benevolent dictatorships are a no no.

    ALSO...most bad leaders once had good intentions. "Power corrupts absolute power corrupts absolutely".


    My kind of power is power to control my own self. Which is another thing I don't find in most 8s. I can champion causes, use charisma, etc...but actual power over others...I want none. I'm an ENFP too. I found it hard to strike a balance between being a nice person and getting things done. The only scenario where I could see myself leading would be in realizing my own vision (think movie director) with legitimacy.

    I think your statement generalizes a bit too much. The world has always had the same ratio of good/bad leaders (actually it might be better these days...if you're a fan of democracy). Leaders will NEVER be perfect. The SYSTEMS themselves will never be perfect.

    Besides, one common mistake made by people who want to lead I think, is that the only way to positively (or otherwise) influence something is to be in charge. It's not.

  7. #77
    Meat Tornado Array DiscoBiscuit's Avatar
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    Besides, one common mistake made by people who want to lead I think, is that the only way to positively (or otherwise) influence something is to be in charge. It's not.
    Too true. Everyone has their role to play.

    I really wish I didn't have to lead. But for me to put no effort into changing the world through leadership, I would have to be happy with the world the way it is now.

    If I can't be happy with the world as it stands, then I must do everything within my power and marshal every sinew of my effort to do what I'm best at (leading) to change to world in order to make it a better place.

    I'm only doing what I was put here to do.
    Your representative owes you, not his industry only, but his judgment; and he betrays, instead of serving you, if he sacrifices it to your opinion.
    - Edmund Burke

    8w9 sx/so

  8. #78
    Senior Member Array Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Too true. Everyone has their role to play.

    I really wish I didn't have to lead. But for me to put no effort into changing the world through leadership, I would have to be happy with the world the way it is now.

    If I can't be happy with the world as it stands, then I must do everything within my power and marshal every sinew of my effort to do what I'm best at (leading) to change to world in order to make it a better place.

    I'm only doing what I was put here to do.
    Thus another leader with dellusions of destiny fullfilment is born

  9. #79
    Senior Member Array Sanjuro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post

    While ones are sample childs, eights are bad boys. Their self-perception is: "I am upsetting". And they even like it to be "upsetting". One can imagine, how much problems eights have with church, where you are told: "Be nice and honest and good and pious". That makes no sense to an eight. The good guys are to eights sissies or cowards.
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    Altercation
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    An eight woman explained, she needed 40 years to develop confidence in Jesus. Because like Jesus was portraied - as blond, blue-eyed softie, who looks down smilieing on children - he did not tell her anything. This Jesus was not worth of her loving. Eights need someone, who get with them engaged into an altercation.
    I am so glad I'm not the only person who's had this mindset.

    I remember getting annoyed as a kid that "the good guy always wins"--why can't the bad guy ever win? The bad guy was always cool, and the good guys always had some preachy do-gooder message that sounded totally sappy to me. Ugh, I was like this as FOUR YEAR OLD. Inborn stuff.

    My stepfather made me feel evil throughout my adolescence precisely because I never bought the "churchy", gay-looking version of Jesus in Bible School. He had this thing about children being innocent little lambs of God (and Jesus loves the children!) and then ruled me evil because I didn't conform to his vision. In the end, I wound up rejecting God and Christianity for many years (for these and other reasons). I just have no respect for that stuff and certainly won't be coerced into going along with it. It wasn't until after reading about historical Palestine and Jesus' likely "real" role as a social protester that I became interested in the Bible and Christianity again (I'm still not a Christian, though).

  10. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delphyne View Post
    That�s not quite true. The enneagram doesn�t cover the differences, but some types are more introverted, others more extraverted. Riso and Hudson figured out the following tendencies:
    8, 7, 3, 2, 6, 1, 4, 9, 5 (from the most extraverted to the most introverted)
    It makes sense. The most extraverted are the types of the assertive group (8,7,3), the compliant group (2,6,1) is following, and the most introverted are the withdrawn types (4,9,5).
    I agree with you that the Assertive (3, 7, 8), Compliant (1, 2, 6) and Withdrawn (4, 5, 9) types exist but not that they are meant to categorize Extraversion/Intoversion. I've not read that at all, would you mind providing a source for those thoughts so I can read into it?

    Though not drastically different, what I've most often read about MBTI/Enneagram correlation on a E/I spectrum goes more like this: 7, 3, 2, 8, 6, 1, 4, 9, 5. This reflects the ratio of introverts or extroverts that relate to each type, not the extent to which the type is introverted/extroverted. For example, 8, 6 and 1 regularly include both introverts and extroverts.
    Find my Enneagram writing here. Also, I'd love for you to take my short four question Enneagram survey!✨

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