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Thread: Another view on the 8

  1. #11
    Senior Member Array Delphyne's Avatar
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    I do not think that enneagram makes differences between intro- and extroverted.
    That´s not quite true. The enneagram doesn´t cover the differences, but some types are more introverted, others more extraverted. Riso and Hudson figured out the following tendencies:
    8, 7, 3, 2, 6, 1, 4, 9, 5 (from the most extraverted to the most introverted)
    It makes sense. The most extraverted are the types of the assertive group (8,7,3), the compliant group (2,6,1) is following, and the most introverted are the withdrawn types (4,9,5).

    If you look for example in the wikipedia Enneagram of Personality - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, even the first sentence about 8's is wrong.

    Eights do not want to be in control.
    The basis fear of eight is of being controlled, therefore they try to control and dominante their environment, so no one can take advantage of them. Eights value their strength and despise weakness. Why do you think the first sentence is wrong?

  2. #12
    Lex Parsimoniae Array Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delphyne View Post
    That´s not quite true. The enneagram doesn´t cover the differences, but some types are more introverted, others more extraverted. Riso and Hudson figured out the following tendencies:
    8, 7, 3, 2, 6, 1, 4, 9, 5 (from the most extraverted to the most introverted)
    It makes sense. The most extraverted are the types of the assertive group (8,7,3), the compliant group (2,6,1) is following, and the most introverted are the withdrawn types (4,9,5).
    I think that's mixing the common definitions of extrovert and introvert there.. Introverts can be very assertive, they are just more concerned with what's going on inside their heads than what's outside of it.

    That is of course unless you're talking about incidence of assertiveness... in which case scratch all that lot and I'll just say "yup".
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?
    Likes Radian liked this post

  3. #13
    Senior Member Array Delphyne's Avatar
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    I´m talking about the Hornevian groups, the social style. Introverts can be very assertive, I agree, it´s just not the same as being in the assertive group, which blow up their ego if stressed.

  4. #14
    Lex Parsimoniae Array Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delphyne View Post
    I´m talking about the Hornevian groups, the social style. Introverts can be very assertive, I agree, it´s just not the same as being in the assertive group, which blow up their ego if stressed.
    You mean "blow up" as in a bird trying to keep warm or more as in a few sticks of TNT?

    The thing is that I see it as Es tend to be more dominant under average circumstances but when pressed it's the introverts who engage that extroverted strain and become the controlling power. I have no theory why, it's just a pattern I've seen.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  5. #15
    Wurstverkäufer Array entropie's Avatar
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    I do not know much how I or E or assertiveness is related to the Enneagram test, havent thought about it much. Your points sound intresting though.

    --
    @Delphyne

    Imagine one day your son, whom you someday told by any accident, you are an eight, comes up to you with a text like this:

    Eights value their own strength and desire to be powerful and in control. They concern themselves with self-preservation. They are natural leaders who can be either friendly and charitable or dictatorially manipulative, ruthless and willing to destroy anything in their way. Eights seek control over their own lives and destinies and fear being harmed or controlled by others.
    When I first read it, I saw all hope is lost for me turning my face one day to some good side in the world. I saw myself drinking soup at a table together with the imperator deciding the faith of the galaxy.

    It is true, that 8's do not want to be controlled. The author of the text probably did want to deliver the supposed decisiveness of the 8's, through picking out accurate words, but that so completly failed. Everybody who reads "They want to be in control", completly gets that wrong. He later corrected himself and said, "they do not want to be controlled". And that are two pair of shoes.

    The other thing "They are natural leaders who can be either friendly and charitable or dictatorially manipulative". Does the author really think that the 8's acquire their goals, through black-and-white thinking ? If he holds me for that dumb, I am really going to grab my bat and drive to his home. Maybe he meant that 8's have two different faces they use towards people. But that then needs to be explained in more detail.

    Maybe I am crazy or something, but I think this wikipedia article is X-rated.
    Lost Frequencies - All or Nothing

    "People do not like you to be different. If ever in your life you act differently from others, you will find it so, mademoiselle."
    ~Saint's Progress by John Galsworthy

  6. #16
    Don't Judge Me! Array Haphazard's Avatar
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    If you spent half an hour together with an eight, you want to flee.
    Does this mean that every single person I know is an eight?
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  7. #17
    Wurstverkäufer Array entropie's Avatar
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    *gg* well you PM'ed me like 3 times back that I see as complimenting
    Lost Frequencies - All or Nothing

    "People do not like you to be different. If ever in your life you act differently from others, you will find it so, mademoiselle."
    ~Saint's Progress by John Galsworthy

  8. #18
    Senior Member Array Delphyne's Avatar
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    @ Xander

    Guess my usage of the word wasn´t right. I mean the assertive group expands their egos, they make it bigger when faced with stress. Withdrawn types fit introverts better, because they tend to withdraw under stress. Though not all introverts are withdrawn types. There are a lot introverts who are Ones or Sixes and some Twos.

    The thing is that I see it as Es tend to be more dominant under average circumstances but when pressed it's the introverts who engage that extroverted strain and become the controlling power. I have no theory why, it's just a pattern I've seen.
    Fives have a line to Eight and are very good to hold their ground when pressed. Nines are the kings and queens of stubborn resistance. Nevertheless both tend to withdraw.

  9. #19
    Wurstverkäufer Array entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delphyne View Post
    Fives have a line to Eight and are very good to hold their ground when pressed.
    That is probably what makes em that sexy *grabs a cake and throws it in haphazard's direction*

    *then covertly vanishes into the woods* xD
    Lost Frequencies - All or Nothing

    "People do not like you to be different. If ever in your life you act differently from others, you will find it so, mademoiselle."
    ~Saint's Progress by John Galsworthy

  10. #20
    Senior Member Array Delphyne's Avatar
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    @ Entropie

    One enneagram author (Claudia Naranjo) calls Eight “the sadistic character and lust”. I´m sure that sounds a lot better. The enneagram is about fixations, passions and motivations, which controls a person. The mbti has a much more possitive approach. Every enneagram type is described in negative ways, because finally it´s about your main passion. Anger, pride, deceit, envy, avarice, fear, gluttony, lust and sloth. It doesn´t sound very nice.

    Everybody who reads "They want to be in control", completly gets that wrong. He later corrected himself and said, "they do not want to be controlled". And that are two pair of shoes.
    The eight has both pair of those shoes. Do you want me to grab an eight, drag him to this place and show you how eights like to take control? Eights I met and who know the enneagram told me that they can identify with the need to be in control.

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