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Thread: Another view on the 8

  1. #121
    Emperor/Dictator Array kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yuu View Post
    I do not do things because I want credit, I do not things because I want to say " lookit me I AM the bigger person!" I do it because I hate wasted time and I hate bullshit. I especially hate time wasted by bullshit. So I'd prefer to just get shit done. Don't care how others percieve this, don't care that the " entitled and incompitent" ( which yah they are) get another free ride. I just caring about doing what needs to be done.

    You're one of those people who is obssesed with being " different" you found out you're not ( based on some number system? Who gives a shit?) so now you can't accept that anyone else might be. TBH, if you have to force yourself to be part of the " 1%" you never really were.
    I don't see what's so great about it personally. I think it would be wonderful to be to be generally accepted by people. Just to be able to relate to another human being would be a fucking dream.
    So, I understand how you feel, but you're barking up the wrong tree here. I've put up with enough judgement and hatred over the years to earn the right to say that I am a little different. If you take offense to that well, that is your issue and it wont be made mine.

    Who said anything about " right?" We're talking about people, how and why they do. I think it's pretty messed up to tell someone that they are wrong on thier own motivations.



    I never said " fiiiine " I said "Fine." It is a difinitve. If I truly did not want to do something I wont. It is not something I jump to at every oppertunity, which is often the implication of 8's: they insist on leading all the time because they are bossy."

    I think I know the type of people I deal with a little better than you. They are not incompitent or incapable.They are certainly not meek. They are entitled, lazy, anti-social, indecisive, and spiteful. If they do decide to lead it's only for the percieved power- the a bsolute last people you would want to lead.
    ... Wait.. So.. When I say "You just step up and take the position knowing ahead you'll probably be the one to do it" and you say

    Don't care how others percieve this, don't care that the " entitled and incompitent" ( which yah they are) get another free ride. I just caring about doing what needs to be done.
    .. I fail to see how these are not congruent to one another.

    I never made one single presumption on your motivations for WHY you take leadership or why you allow guys 'another free ride' or anything. Nothing in my post was about credit or glory or any of that. It was about your perceptions. "Doing things the right way (aka your way)".. and your descriptions are that the other people are bad choices, that they are the last people you'd want in power, and that you hate wasting time and just want shit to get done that needs to be done. That sounds like your perception of everything.. Now, that can very well be the reality as well. I have no idea.

    And to be fair... You didn't really specify "at work I always have to do this, but at home not so much".. You just made a very bland, vague generalization in your first post.. you called it your mantra.. so, no, I didn't specify my post to just your work situations. You made it seem like this is just your norm in life--not at work particularly. I didn't have that context until a reply... So, in that context, yeah it seems a little presumptive of me to say "are all these people shitty? Really? All the time???" versus my intended context of "everyone in your life just needs you to step up?" because your coworkers? they may very well be shitty entitled lazy people.. I've dealt with my fair share of whole-team-fiascoes... But even so... The point still holds water. It is still your perception of 'the right way'. No time wasting, no shitty-people in decision-making roles, no nonsense stuff. Those don't sound like bad things to me at all, and nothing in my post was trying to imply you were doing a bad thing taking control. it's what 8s do. It's what we're good at.

    I did imply that you were resentful.. But you sound resentful as hell in your original post I replied to. "Fine, I'll do it" being your mantra? And it isn't even a tiiinnnggeeee teeny tiny bit of a resentful fine being thrown in there? Why even bother saying the most common colloquialism in the English language for begrudgingly agreeing if there isn't any form of negativity attached to it? Why not "I'll do it."? Nothing indicating much emotion there one way or the other.. Maybe this is just internet miscommunication, but it seemed pretty plainly negative to me. Especially in the context of "my coworkers are shit and that's why I always have to step up." I also don't imply this is a bad thing.. it can be exhausting to always want to do things the most efficient way and the only way that'll happen is if you're at the head of it all. It can be a shitty thing to deal with shitty people.. but, at the end of the day, you would still be resenting them for something you've essentially volunteered for.. and I get sometimes there's no way around it..

    8s don't insist on leading because they're bossy. They insist because of the very things you're describing.. feeling others are less capable of the leadership role, and the leadership roles being a naturally good fit for the 8, and the efficiency of being able to be in charge of a situation so you have control of it. It is the control the 8 craves, not the feeling of bossiness or credit or anything like that.

    You seem reallllyyyyy touchy about this subject, and my reply was not at all trying to make you upset or anything like that. I'm not doubting your 8ness, I'm actually trying to explore the possibility that.. yeah, like many 8s, you may secretly want these leadership roles instead of just feeling forced into every single one that comes your way.
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  2. #122
    Senior Member Array evilrubberduckie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yuu View Post
    ..because people who have to respond to every innocuous thing I say with an argument irritates me.

    They asked, I answered. They said "Nu uh!" Maybe just don't ask next time?
    Or maybe dont post on an open forum where discussion and debate is implemented and encouraged? Honestly. Its the fucking internet, pardon my French, we arent your mother. We wont agree to all of your ideas and pat you on the head and say "good job!"

    Im not saying dont disagree with what people say. Im just saying expect it. Not everyone is going to agree with you and that's ok.
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  3. #123
    Senior Member Array Yuu's Avatar
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    Dbl post..again.

  4. #124
    Senior Member Array Yuu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    ... Wait.. So.. When I say "You just step up and take the position knowing ahead you'll probably be the one to do it" and you say



    .. I fail to see how these are not congruent to one another.

    I never made one single presumption on your motivations for WHY you take leadership or why you allow guys 'another free ride' or anything. Nothing in my post was about credit or glory or any of that. It was about your perceptions. "Doing things the right way (aka your way)".. and your descriptions are that the other people are bad choices, that they are the last people you'd want in power, and that you hate wasting time and just want shit to get done that needs to be done. That sounds like your perception of everything.. Now, that can very well be the reality as well. I have no idea.

    And to be fair... You didn't really specify "at work I always have to do this, but at home not so much".. You just made a very bland, vague generalization in your first post.. you called it your mantra.. so, no, I didn't specify my post to just your work situations. You made it seem like this is just your norm in life--not at work particularly. I didn't have that context until a reply... So, in that context, yeah it seems a little presumptive of me to say "are all these people shitty? Really? All the time???" versus my intended context of "everyone in your life just needs you to step up?" because your coworkers? they may very well be shitty entitled lazy people.. I've dealt with my fair share of whole-team-fiascoes... But even so... The point still holds water. It is still your perception of 'the right way'. No time wasting, no shitty-people in decision-making roles, no nonsense stuff. Those don't sound like bad things to me at all, and nothing in my post was trying to imply you were doing a bad thing taking control. it's what 8s do. It's what we're good at.

    I did imply that you were resentful.. But you sound resentful as hell in your original post I replied to. "Fine, I'll do it" being your mantra? And it isn't even a tiiinnnggeeee teeny tiny bit of a resentful fine being thrown in there? Why even bother saying the most common colloquialism in the English language for begrudgingly agreeing if there isn't any form of negativity attached to it? Why not "I'll do it."? Nothing indicating much emotion there one way or the other.. Maybe this is just internet miscommunication, but it seemed pretty plainly negative to me. Especially in the context of "my coworkers are shit and that's why I always have to step up." I also don't imply this is a bad thing.. it can be exhausting to always want to do things the most efficient way and the only way that'll happen is if you're at the head of it all. It can be a shitty thing to deal with shitty people.. but, at the end of the day, you would still be resenting them for something you've essentially volunteered for.. and I get sometimes there's no way around it..

    8s don't insist on leading because they're bossy. They insist because of the very things you're describing.. feeling others are less capable of the leadership role, and the leadership roles being a naturally good fit for the 8, and the efficiency of being able to be in charge of a situation so you have control of it. It is the control the 8 craves, not the feeling of bossiness or credit or anything like that.

    You seem reallllyyyyy touchy about this subject, and my reply was not at all trying to make you upset or anything like that. I'm not doubting your 8ness, I'm actually trying to explore the possibility that.. yeah, like many 8s, you may secretly want these leadership roles instead of just feeling forced into every single one that comes your way.
    I have not had a job in 8 years. That's why I didn't specify.

    I admit, I am horrible at communicating ( I do much better in the real words, to e, body language ect. But words, I am not great at.

    It is very frustrating that no matter the intent, people nitpick my words. When I come on the internet in a generally good mood, I say something in good humor and five minutes later; oh look people want to argue! I get it, I'm tough to read but a lot drama could be avoided if when I say " I didn't mean it that way."

    All of that aside, I don't disagree with your final observation. It sounds fairly accurate actually. And, to make it clear; I don't have any issue with you. I appreciate your civility and honesty.

  5. #125

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    Quote Originally Posted by MDP2525 View Post
    This is CP6. We can be leaders but not natural ones like 8. We begrudgingly lead. Better in an advisor position to an 8. Keeping them within parameters. Troubleshooting from the side.

    We are the pea to an E8 carrot.

    You will often type as 5,7,8. Check this link out. I don't want to derail the 8 focus of the thread but lots of CP6 will type as 8. So they will be here.

    Ask a CP6...

    It really does not have to be CP 6.
    That line can be 6 fix talk, underdeveloped So instinct or simply circumstances. Not every sign of weakness or frustaration is the sign that you aren't an 8. I trully think that people are overdoing the witch hunt on the 8s these days.

  6. #126
    Senior Member Array Ursa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Virtual ghost View Post
    It really does not have to be CP 6.
    That line can be 6 fix talk, underdeveloped So instinct or simply circumstances. Not every sign of weakness or frustaration is the sign that you aren't an 8. I trully think that people are overdoing the witch hunt on the 8s these days.
    I can't see an 8 as reactive. Maybe on an exceptionally bad day when people bug us and when we want to be left alone like a 5, but not often.

    The typical 8 response is best summed up as: "Pfffft," or maybe even none if the conversation seems like it's going to be a waste of time.

    I also can't see an 8 not wanting to be some sort of leader. Our essential fear is being controlled - it's what makes us 8. That's why we tend to want power and control, so we can be in a position best able to prevent others from controlling us. It doesn't have to be big leadership, like being President or CEO, but some sort of leadership in a hierarchy where we can have a reasonable freedom from control. Plus some part of me gets agitated when I'm told what to do, even if it's reasonable. I hate that.

  7. #127

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ursa View Post
    I can't see an 8 as reactive. Maybe on an exceptionally bad day when people bug us and when we want to be left alone like a 5, but not often.

    The typical 8 response is best summed up as: "Pfffft," or maybe even none if the conversation seems like it's going to be a waste of time.

    I also can't see an 8 not wanting to be some sort of leader. Our essential fear is being controlled - it's what makes us 8. That's why we tend to want power and control, so we can be in a position best able to prevent others from controlling us. It doesn't have to be big leadership, like being President or CEO, but some sort of leadership in a hierarchy where we can have a reasonable freedom from control. Plus some part of me gets agitated when I'm told what to do, even if it's reasonable. I hate that.

    And you don't see anything reactive in your post ? I think you are mistaking "reactive" for "dramatic".

    It is true that English is not my first language but pursuing leadership because you don't want to be controlled is pretty reactionary logic in my book.

  8. #128
    Senior Member Array Ursa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Virtual ghost View Post
    And you don't see anything reactive in your post ? I think you are mistaking "reactive" for "dramatic".

    It is true that English is not my first language but pursuing leadership because you don't want to be controlled is pretty reactionary logic in my book.
    I once read a Zen proverb that said something to the effect of: "Respond, don't react." It's in that framework that I conceive of what reactivity is. For example, the above conversation about CP6s and 8s in which there is a lot of defensiveness and accusations about others' intentions is something I'd classify as reactive. A "response" on the other hand is something far less emotionally invested. "Dramatic" is pretty extreme (I think of meltdowns), but I'd be lying if I said I weren't confused as to how reactive and dramatic couldn't be categorized together.

    Pursuing leadership seems more proactive than reactive. (These terms are often juxtaposed.) I think this sums up one of the large differences between 8s and CP6s. 8s have a constant tension about us because we're always pushing outwards. We want to control our own path and destiny, so we have to push boundaries and be expansive and aggressive almost all the time. CP6s seem more like they only push when they get pushed first.

  9. #129
    Wurstverkäufer Array entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ursa View Post
    I once read a Zen proverb that said something to the effect of: "Respond, don't react." It's in that framework that I conceive of what reactivity is. For example, the above conversation about CP6s and 8s in which there is a lot of defensiveness and accusations about others' intentions is something I'd classify as reactive. A "response" on the other hand is something far less emotionally invested. "Dramatic" is pretty extreme (I think of meltdowns), but I'd be lying if I said I weren't confused as to how reactive and dramatic couldn't be categorized together.

    Pursuing leadership seems more proactive than reactive. (These terms are often juxtaposed.) I think this sums up one of the large differences between 8s and CP6s. 8s have a constant tension about us because we're always pushing outwards. We want to control our own path and destiny, so we have to push boundaries and be expansive and aggressive almost all the time. CP6s seem more like they only push when they get pushed first.
    Yet aggressiveness alone doesnt make a leader.
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  10. #130
    Senior Member Array Ursa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    Yet aggressiveness alone doesnt make a leader.
    No - and thank goodness. No one likes a bully boss or a go-getter with no morals.

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