User Tag List

First 56789 Last

Results 61 to 70 of 85

  1. #61
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    8,028

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    This is interesting.

    So those are the options when authority figures prove themselves incompetent with quantifiable negative impacts to you. How do you decide they are incompetent and what kind of negative impacts have you seen or would bother you?

    I'm curious. How does loyalty come into play, obligation to the larger team you are working with, or commitment to complete something you signed up for?
    My response is with a work focus in mind, since that's the direction you appear to be coming from. Efficacy and equity are the determinants for competence.

    Loyalty in a work environment? What's that? As far as group, end goal is the focus.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bullterrier View Post
    Because when you do that you actively challenge the leader in front of the entire group. If you get to do your thing you're the new leader. If you quit or get fired you're not.
    Sorry, I don't understand this. One doesn't have to become a leader. It's possible to just do your own thing with focus to end goal.

  2. #62
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    6w5 sx/sp
    Socionics
    ILI Ni
    Posts
    17,906

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bullterrier View Post
    How do you take over a leader role without first challenging the current leader?
    I have never challenged a current leader to get into a leadership role but have been in plenty of these roles. Here are some examples of things that can be done.

    1. Step in and assert leadership to fill a need, staying loyal to the person who is in charge and keeping them informed. They get credit. You get credit. It's all fine.
    2. Take the initiative to start something new where there is nobody there leading.
    3. If you're in an ambiguous situation where nobody is effectively leading, tell people you are in charge and take ownership and responsibility for things getting done.
    4. Start small and make meaningful contributions. It is a way of building up the reputation for someone who gets stuff done.Then tell people you want a role or run for an elected office and campaign for it.
    5. Develop a strategy and plan and lobby people around it. Alternatively you can be a person who facilitates the development of a strategy and plan. Then start leading execution.

    If you can see a theme, mostly it's stepping in where there is an absence of leadership.

    Please provide feedback on my Nohari and Johari Window by clicking here: Nohari/Johari

    Tri-type 639

  3. #63
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    28

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by andante View Post
    Sorry, I don't understand this. One doesn't have to become a leader. It's possible to just do your own thing with focus to end goal.
    And what goal is that?
    Lost but now I am found
    I can see but once I was blind
    I was so confused as a little child
    Tried to take what I could get
    Scared that I couldn't find all the answers

  4. #64
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    28

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    I have never challenged a current leader to get into a leadership role but have been in plenty of these roles. Here are some examples of things that can be done.

    1. Step in and assert leadership to fill a need, staying loyal to the person who is in charge and keeping them informed. They get credit. You get credit. It's all fine.
    2. Take the initiative to start something new where there is nobody there leading.
    3. If you're in an ambiguous situation where nobody is effectively leading, tell people you are in charge and take ownership and responsibility for things getting done.
    4. Start small and make meaningful contributions. It is a way of building up the reputation for someone who gets stuff done.Then tell people you want a role or run for an elected office and campaign for it.
    5. Develop a strategy and plan and lobby people around it. Alternatively you can be a person who facilitates the development of a strategy and plan. Then start leading execution.

    If you can see a theme, mostly it's stepping in where there is an absence of leadership.

    Yes, that's the 6 way. The 8 way is "ok, you suck now step aside!"
    Lost but now I am found
    I can see but once I was blind
    I was so confused as a little child
    Tried to take what I could get
    Scared that I couldn't find all the answers

  5. #65
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    8,028

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bullterrier View Post
    And what goal is that?
    Eh? Whatever end goal would be for the group, which is usually defined by the company or educational institution.

    Or are you talking about social situations? In social situations, I can't be arsed to waste energy on leading. As long as no one messes with my autonomy, it's all good. Probably the only time I can be bothered to lead in social situations is when people are hemming and hawing around or are boring me to death. That's when I step up to make decisions or to get the party started.

  6. #66
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    28

    Default

    And I'm not talking about an offical title, it can be though. I don't care so much for titles.
    Lost but now I am found
    I can see but once I was blind
    I was so confused as a little child
    Tried to take what I could get
    Scared that I couldn't find all the answers

  7. #67
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    6w5 sx/sp
    Socionics
    ILI Ni
    Posts
    17,906

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by andante View Post
    Loyalty in a work environment? What's that? As far as group, end goal is the focus.

    Sorry, I don't understand this. One doesn't have to become a leader. It's possible to just do your own thing with focus to end goal.
    Here is a place where we differ. 6s do feel loyalty towards others. That includes bosses, peers and those who work for them. It's an important part of our makeup - the collaboration and to have each other's back.

    If an 8 were to decide to go off and do their own thing or detach from the group in the middle of a big project or endeavor, and if a 6 were in charge, this could easily seen as an act of selfishness, unprofessionalism or disloyalty - resulting in relationships being damaged and/or bridges being burned. Generally, I think those things can be career limiting moves. People remember stuff for a long time and people talk to each other in professional communities they work in. I have learned to never burn a bridge because you never know when it is going to bite you in the ass.

    Please provide feedback on my Nohari and Johari Window by clicking here: Nohari/Johari

    Tri-type 639

  8. #68
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    28

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by andante View Post
    Eh? Whatever end goal would be for the group, which is usually defined by the company or educational institution.
    Heh, sounds like Te

    But regardless of what goal, if you give the current leader the finger and challenges him, don't you think the rest of the group might see you as more of a real leader and not just a paper leader which just got run over?
    Lost but now I am found
    I can see but once I was blind
    I was so confused as a little child
    Tried to take what I could get
    Scared that I couldn't find all the answers

  9. #69
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    8,028

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    Here is a place where we differ. 6s do feel loyalty towards others. That includes bosses, peers and those who work for them. It's an important part of our makeup - the collaboration and to have each other's back.

    If an 8 were to decide to go off and do their own thing or detach from the group in the middle of a big project or endeavor, and if a 6 were in charge, this could easily seen as an act of selfishness, unprofessionalism or disloyalty - resulting in relationships being damaged and/or bridges being burned. Generally, I think those things can be career limiting moves. People remember stuff for a long time and people talk to each other in professional communities they work in. I have learned to never burn a bridge because you never know when it is going to bite you in the ass.
    This makes no sense to me. Everyone in a group project has their responsibilities. So if everyone is working towards the same end goal, the warm and fuzzies aren't necessary.

    I've never burned a work bridge. Between being a ten year career manager and being a self-employed business consultant, I well understand how important bridges can be. But if you notice, I was either in charge or doing my own thing.

  10. #70
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    8,028

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bullterrier View Post
    Heh, sounds like Te

    But regardless of what goal, if you give the current leader the finger and challenges him, don't you think the rest of the group might see you as more of a real leader and not just a paper leader which just got run over?
    Their perceptions are irrelevant, since they're responsible for themselves unless I choose to be responsible for them by taking on the leadership role.

    Frankly, I've spent my life being made responsible for others. Tired of it and won't do it anymore.

Similar Threads

  1. is God sadistic??? Or is it just me?
    By targobelle in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 198
    Last Post: 07-12-2009, 07:32 PM
  2. Is it just me?
    By The Ü™ in forum The Fluff Zone
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 01-30-2008, 08:31 PM
  3. Is it just me?
    By Xander in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 91
    Last Post: 01-15-2008, 07:33 AM
  4. Replies: 10
    Last Post: 07-24-2007, 07:35 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO