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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    I think the two can exhibit the same behaviors but for different reasons. Whether that is an accurate depiction of the difference, I'm not sure.
    I think an 8 can see the difference more than a 6, but sure there's similarities.

    Some 6 see me as fighting against authority. I'm no authority.
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  2. #42
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    That's not exactly what I said but I can understand why you're making the interpretation you are. I don't think of 6s as typically competing for a leadership role. It's not really our style and feels distasteful. We will assume them. We will engineer getting into them. We'll be given them. We won't compete. It may be part of why we don't like that dynamic with the 8s - because of the way you are thinking about this.
    So, CP6s must be viewed in a positive light, even though they automatically view others in a distrustful and negative light?

    I believe CP6s will be slower to take the "agency" you mention because they don't want to damage their relationship with others. It's not that they need it to be given to them. In a situation of urgency or crisis, they won't hesitate to take that agency.
    This reinforces my above perspective. They need agency externally granted.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullterrier View Post
    I think an 8 can see the difference more than a 6, but sure there's similarities.

    Some 6 see me as fighting against authority. I'm no authority.
    I mean absolutely no disrespect whatsoever when I say this... but have you ever wondered if you weren't cp6 yourself? It's a common placement for ISTP. cps are often suspicious of other cps... And...I can't imagine an 8 making a thread like this.

    Just a thought...
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  4. #44
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andante View Post
    So, CP6s must be viewed in a positive light, even though they automatically view others in a distrustful and negative light?

    This reinforces my above perspective. They need agency externally granted.
    I said we viewed competing for leadership roles as distasteful. Do you take that as a condemnation of 8s?

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  5. #45
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    I said we viewed competing for leadership roles as distasteful. Do you take that as a condemnation of 8s?
    Nope and even if that was your intent, it's okay to condemn 8s.

    My point was that CP6s are engaging in counterproductive behaviours. People are viewed with mistrust and all sorts of negativity but it's very important to the CP6 to be viewed favourably and if not viewed as such, their 'persecutors' must be trashed. They set people up for the fall. They're also controlling but more from the perspective of attempting to top from the bottom.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    I mean absolutely no disrespect whatsoever when I say this... but have you ever wondered if you weren't cp6 yourself? It's a common placement for ISTP. cps are often suspicious of other cps... And...I can't imagine an 8 making a thread like this.

    Just a thought...
    I'm not suspicous of CPs. I want to know how to handle these situations better before they escalate into something else.
    Lost but now I am found
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    I was so confused as a little child
    Tried to take what I could get
    Scared that I couldn't find all the answers

  7. #47
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andante View Post
    Nope and even if that was your intent, it's okay to condemn 8s.

    My point was that CP6s are engaging in counterproductive behaviours. People are viewed with mistrust and all sorts of negativity but it's very important to the CP6 to be viewed favourably and if not viewed as such, their 'persecutors' must be trashed. They set people up for the fall. They're also controlling but more from the perspective of attempting to top from the bottom.
    I agree that viewing people with mistrust is counterproductive. It was a hard lesson that I learned a number of years ago. We're not powerless to change these aspects of our personality.

    Do you think 8s can be guilty of viewing those in leadership roles with mistrust as well?

    What do you mean "top from the bottom"?

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  8. #48
    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullterrier View Post
    I'm not suspicous of CPs. I want to know how to handle these situations better before they escalate into something else.
    I'm trying to think of what I want to say here... Another thing you might consider is the behaviors you make note of in the OP... those actions could have been perpetrated by anyone/any type. There's nothing there that stands out as being distinctly cp. Which is one of the reasons I appreciate highlander's comments in this thread as counterphobia is so misunderstood. Criminal, abusive, disruptive, hurtful behavior does not automatically point to the presence of counterphobia in a person as it seems so many would have you think. Most cps are not this way at all.

    Whatever word you would choose to describe what you're experiencing... while it is unclear to me whether or not the individuals in the OP are cp... I could see a cp doing whatever it is you're doing in response to that.
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  9. #49
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    Do you think 8s can be guilty of viewing those in leadership roles with mistrust as well?
    Can't speak for other 8s but for myself, I'm fine with authority figures until they prove themselves incompetent with quantifiable negative impacts to me. That's when it hits the fan where if they can't lead, I'll either take over or consider them irrelevant and go do my thing, in the manner I wish. This includes detaching to the point of walking away.

    But I do plan for the worst and hope for the best, although it's not so much mistrust but that people are generally self-interested which includes myself. This is an acceptance of humanity where everyone is multifaceted.

    What do you mean "top from the bottom"?
    6s as a generality, wish to be led. With CP6s, they too have a desire to be led but mistrust authority, so they preemptively harass authority, as if authority was responsible for their needs even though authority never agreed to be responsible for them. The definition of authority is 'someone who the CP6 perceives as authority'.
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  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by andante View Post
    Can't speak for other 8s but for myself, I'm fine with authority figures until they prove themselves incompetent with quantifiable negative impacts to me. That's when it hits the fan where if they can't lead, I'll either take over or consider them irrelevant and go do my thing, in the manner I wish. This includes detaching to the point of walking away.
    And the difference between you detaching or taking over is how much it effects you? I've never managed to detach, it's either take over or walk away.
    Lost but now I am found
    I can see but once I was blind
    I was so confused as a little child
    Tried to take what I could get
    Scared that I couldn't find all the answers

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