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  1. #1
    Senior Member iHeartCats's Avatar
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    Default Type 6 - Phobia and Counterphobia

    I have three close friends (esfj, isfj and istj) - about 10 years of friendship with them - who are seem to have "type 6" characteristics and they are emotionally healthy and stable people.

    Then there was that entp friend from high school who was a true phobic (she was generally emotionally unhealthy), and then suddenly turned very counterphobic and emotionally agressive at the age of 17.
    The change from phobic to counterphobic was permanent and it essentially looked like she turned into an opposite of everything she was before.
    I found her likeable as a phobic, but I couldn't stand her counterphobic side - in her friendships, it was like she would often disagree with people just for the sake of disagreeing, and was ready to verbally fight to death with anyone who would disagree with her about any little thing.

    A lot of people seem to adopt a generalized opinion about "type 6" based on those phobic/counterphobic individuals, it seems.

    Any thoughts?

    EDIT: Lately I've spent some time researching the Enneagram theory, but I found out that the Enneagram theory has no real scientific basis and is not recognized in academic psychology, so I don't place any significance on it any more.
    Last edited by iHeartCats; 11-06-2014 at 09:43 AM.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by iHeartCats View Post
    I have three close friends (esfj, isfj and istj) - about 10 years of friendship with them - who are all Type 6 and they are emotionally healthy and stable people. The isfj can sometimes display mildly phobic or counterphobic behavior, usually when life gets rough, but is nonetheless generally grounded and emotionally stable.

    Then there was that Type 6 entp friend from high school who was a true phobic (she was generally emotionally unhealthy), and then suddenly turned very counterphobic and emotionally agressive at the age of 17.
    The change from phobic to counterphobic was permanent and it essentially looked like she turned into an opposite of everything she was before.
    I found her likeable as a phobic, but I couldn't stand her counterphobic side - in her friendships, it was like she would often disagree with people just for the sake of disagreeing, and was ready to verbally fight to death with anyone who would disagree with her about any little thing.

    Since I have three emotionally stable Type 6 friends, and I've seen a lot of prejudice about 6s on MBTI forums, I think it's a bit unfair.
    A lot of people seem to adopt a generalized opinion about 6s based on those phobic/counterphobic individuals, it seems - or even worse, based on some Type 6 descriptions - which I think generates confusion and prejudice about that type. I think that most of 6s are neither truly phobic or counterphobic, but those who are emotionally unhealthy, like that high school friend, seem to have it so bad that they give a bad reputation to all 6s.

    Any thoughts?
    Aren't all emotionally unhealthy, unhealthy?

    Is it your views on 6s or others views on 6s? How do they differ?
    Lost but now I am found
    I can see but once I was blind
    I was so confused as a little child
    Tried to take what I could get
    Scared that I couldn't find all the answers

  3. #3
    Senior Member iHeartCats's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullterrier View Post
    Aren't all emotionally unhealthy, unhealthy?
    Sure, but the unhealthiness doesn't manifest as phobia/counterphobia in all people, right? As far as I understand, chronical phobia/counterphobia is something that is more common with unhealthy 6s than with other unhealthy types...... with other types unhealthiness would more likely manifest itself in ways other then phobia/counterphobia, according to the Enneagram theory at least

    Quote Originally Posted by Bullterrier View Post
    Is it your views on 6s or others views on 6s? How do they differ?
    Quote Originally Posted by iHeartCats View Post
    A lot of people seem to adopt a generalized opinion about 6s based on those phobic/counterphobic individuals, it seems - or even worse, based on some Type 6 descriptions - which I think generates confusion and prejudice about that type. I think that most of 6s are neither truly phobic or counterphobic, but those who are emotionally unhealthy, like that high school friend, seem to have it so bad that they give a bad reputation to all 6s.
    I explained it here.....The impression I get is that a lot of people think that all 6s are more or less phobic/CP, while I myself make a distinction between the ones who display no phobia/CP whatsoever and the ones who display a lot of it and I think that the "displayers" are in the minority compared to "non-displayers", so I think that type 6 shouldn't be generally considered phobic/counterphobic.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by iHeartCats View Post
    Sure, but the unhealthiness doesn't manifest as phobia/counterphobia in all people, right?
    Sx 6 are usually CP. Not sure if health is something which tells you whether they're mostly CP or P.

    Read this

    Passions and counterpassions
    Lost but now I am found
    I can see but once I was blind
    I was so confused as a little child
    Tried to take what I could get
    Scared that I couldn't find all the answers
    Likes highlander liked this post

  5. #5
    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iHeartCats View Post
    I have three close friends (esfj, isfj and istj) - about 10 years of friendship with them - who are all and thu are emotionally healthy and stable people. The isfj can sometimes display mildly phobic or counterphobic behavior, usually when life gets rough, but is nonetheless generally grounded and emotionally stable.

    Then there was that Type 6 entp friend from high school who was a true phobic (she was generally emotionally unhealthy), and then suddenly turned very counterphobic and emotionally agressive at the age of 17.
    The change from phobic to counterphobic was permanent and it essentially looked like she turned into an opposite of everything she was before.
    I found her likeable as a phobic, but I couldn't stand her counterphobic side - in her friendships, it was like she would often disagree with people just for the sake of disagreeing, and was ready to verbally fight to death with anyone who would disagree with her about any little thing.

    Since I have three emotionally stable Type 6 friends, and I've seen a lot of prejudice about 6s on MBTI forums, I think it's a bit unfair.
    A lot of people seem to adopt a generalized opinion about 6s based on those phobic/counterphobic individuals, it seems - or even worse, based on some Type 6 descriptions - which I think generates confusion and prejudice about that type. I think that most of 6s are neither truly phobic or counterphobic, but those who are emotionally unhealthy, like that high school friend, seem to have it so bad that they give a bad reputation to all 6s.

    Any thoughts?

    Ummm...I was responding in a different thread about counterphobia haha and just know that nothing about ending up here confused me. Nothing. (totally thought there had been a thread split or a bunch of posts got dumped for a short while.)

    Thoughts... <-if you weren't Fi aux I would be a bit nervous about responding in this thread but...
    Something that came into mind reading the OP is your ENTP friend...I would bet large sums of money which I totally have being rich and all...on her actually being an e7 and what occurring thereafter (around age 17) was a 6 wing kicking-in. In other words, what seems to be the general understanding from the little there is out there on the topic...is for counterphobia to come into existence in the way you appear to be describing it (although correct me if I'm wrong) there needs to be a link to e5 and e6. 6w7 does not have a connection to 5...but 7w6 does by way of our point of integration. So the "defender of the underdog" styled cp will only manifest in the 5w6, 6w5 and 7w6.

    This does not mean that 6w7s do not use a variety of coping strategies to alleviate their fears but there's a semblance of forethought. I always think of 6w7 as the "inside the actors studio" point. With a connection to e3...once that 7 wing hits they can spin images that bring them a great deal of admiration...they use displays of strength and sexuality...or...some will actually use helplessness and cuteness to be taken care of...I'm thinking of Marilyn Monroe or Meg Ryan. And like for a male...that stupid dude from the show Friends. It's a whole different kind of "counterphobia."

  6. #6
    Senior Member iHeartCats's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullterrier View Post
    Sx 6 are usually CP. Not sure if health is something which tells you whether they're mostly CP or P.

    Read this

    Passions and counterpassions

    The CP6 person from high school was definitely SX-dom - like 100% SX-dom, not even a slightest doubt about it. She was even a nymphomaniac, and those are her own words, and not mine, as she had no problem admitting it, and the nymphomania was quite obvious - she just wasn't able to participate in a conversation without mentioning sex for longer than 5 minutes, let alone the other, more literal, displays of that trait.

    Passions and counterpassions
    Excerpt from the aticle:
    1. The duality of the Six is in direct relationship to its passion: fear. In both cases, fear (like the other characteristics of the type) is present. Phobic Sixes know that they're afraid and show it. Counterphobic Sixes also are afraid; however, they deny their fear and seek to prove to others, and themselves, that they are not afraid.
    2. Counterphobic Sixes often believe that they're practicing the virtue of their type: courage. However, counterphobia is a caricature of courage.

    Yes, this was exactly what her behaviour looked like: a caricature. When she went CP, she would commonly insist on strongly disagreeing with people about such insignificant subjects and do it in such unnecessarily intrusive manner, that she appeared like a caricature of courage indeed, as she would so boldly state her strong opinions about movies and shirts and aggressively oppose people who would disagree with those opinions, and yet remain insecure and cowardly anytime she was faced with serious stuff that required real courage and real decisions.

    "Six: Temerity
    The passion of Sixes is fear. The counterpassion is a caricature of the virtue of courage. In these situations, Sixes are harsh; they aggressively face dangers that don't exist or don't need to be confronted. This is the counterphobic Six so often described in Enneagram literature."

    Yes - this was exactly it.

  7. #7
    Senior Member iHeartCats's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    Something that came into mind reading the OP is your ENTP friend...I would bet large sums of money which I totally have being rich and all...on her actually being an e7 and what occurring thereafter (around age 17) was a 6 wing kicking-in. In other words, what seems to be the general understanding from the little there is out there on the topic...is for counterphobia to come into existence in the way you appear to be describing it (although correct me if I'm wrong) there needs to be a link to e5 and e6. 6w7 does not have a connection to 5...but 7w6 does by way of our point of integration. So the "defender of the underdog" styled cp will only manifest in the 5w6, 6w5 and 7w6.
    The reason why I find her unlikely to be a 7w6 is that type 7 is supposed to be essentially carefree, and she was really always quite the opposite of that - she would always worry about non-existent problems (mostly relationship-related) that she would invent in her head and about a lot of other stuff that most people don't worry about, she was never truly carefree.
    Also, she didn't turn from type 7 to CP - she turned from phobic to counterphobic. Before she became predominantly CP, she was a description of phobic type 6 personified - she was quiet, shy, would avoid anything that even remotely resembled a confrontation and constantly tremble with fear of non-existent problems.

    Also, 7s are supposed to be enthusiastic and inspiring, which she never was. Also she didn't make new friends with ease like 7s do - she was distrustful towards people whom she didn't know well. She was also too stuck in her own head to be a 7 - 7s are supposed to be outwardly oriented, which she wasn't - when she was phobic she believed that the role of her friends, from her perspective, was to lead her and reassure her that there was nothing wrong with her (she could never really be reassured though, and always needed more external reassuring), and when she went predominantly counterphobic, the role of her friends was to agree with everything she said, so pretty much the role of the external was always to serve the internal, and that was why, no matter whether acting phobic or counterphobic, she would always end up stuck in her own head.

    I do believe that she is 6w7, certainly not 6w5, and that 7 wing combined with SX-dom would explain her extraordinary need for sexual adventures which pretty much kicked in somewhere about the time she went counterphobic.

    She was also never the defender of the underdog - she would actually need to look somewhere outside of her own head to actually notice an underdog.

    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    This does not mean that 6w7s do not use a variety of coping strategies to alleviate their fears but there's a semblance of forethought. With a connection to e3...once that 7 wing hits they can spin images that bring them a great deal of admiration...they use displays of strength and sexuality...or...some will actually use helplessness and cuteness to be taken care of.
    Well, she did that quite often.

    If you still can't see type 6 here, I give up
    Last edited by iHeartCats; 11-07-2014 at 01:52 PM.

  8. #8
    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iHeartCats View Post
    If you still can't see type 6 here, I give up
    Umm sorry...I didn't mean to put you out (???) [note to self - whatever you do, do not respond to OPs that end with a solicitation of 'thoughts.' It may no longer mean what you think it means.]

    I was merely trying to account for the fact that an e6 doesn't just suddenly *become counterphobic* like you describe in the OP. <-And that's not merely 'my own understanding.' Any enneagram book with a chapter on e6 will express that same sentiment. People with 6 wings though... wings are believed to emerge in the late teens so I thought that explanation made more sense and suggested it. For example, my sister is the more explosive, 'classic' kind of e6 counterphobe being INFJ 6w5 sx/so. And while this nature didn't take its final form until her senior year in high school...(same as you say)...there were many, many, many, many, many displays of counterphobia in her youth.

    Like I can remember being on an elementary school field trip with her to an aquarium where we had been asked to vote for our favorite fish by putting our name tag on the tank. And from across the room I saw that this one small, out-of-the-way tank containing the butt-ugliest fish you've ever seen had a name tag vote on it and in spite of not being able to read it... I knew exactly who that vote was from and why. And yes, she violently defended her underdog fish against the other kid's mocking causing a scene.

    So, I guess if you still can't see that counterphobics are counterphobic their entire lives here, I give up.

  9. #9
    untitled Chanaynay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    Umm sorry...I didn't mean to put you out (???) [note to self - whatever you do, do not respond to OPs that end with a solicitation of 'thoughts.' It may no longer mean what you think it means.]
    We keep getting ourselves into trouble with posting our thoughts Starry haha.

    Like I can remember being on an elementary school field trip with her to an aquarium where we had been asked to vote for our favorite fish by putting our name tag on the tank. And from across the room I saw that this one small, out-of-the-way tank containing the butt-ugliest fish you've ever seen had a name tag vote on it and in spite of being able to read it... I knew exactly who that vote was from and why. And yes, she violently defended her underdog fish against the other kid's mocking causing a scene.
    Omg this is adorable. That kid is awesome.
    7w6 - 2w3 - 8w7 sx/so


  10. #10
    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chanaynay View Post
    We keep getting ourselves into trouble with posting our thoughts Starry haha.
    Maybe the forum needs to accommodate Ne doms? We're possibly coming into these things with too broad a "thought field" or something. People asking for "thoughts" should maybe help us out by identifying the boundaries like "only thoughts that are in total agreement with what I put forth"... stuff like that would be helpful for us.



    Omg this is adorable. That kid is awesome.
    I know, I love that story. On the bus ride back to the school I said to her "that was not your favorite fish." And she replied "I know but I just felt so bad because I knew no one would vote for him."

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