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  1. #11
    metamorphosing Flâneuse's Avatar
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    I remember reading that 4w3s often have an ideal self that is far more uninhibited and freely expressive than how they really feel (inhibited, even "trapped in themselves", and self-conscious), and that they may have a flamboyant air in public and seem emotionally open, but in reality the deepest feelings (especially their deepest shame and the source of it) remain hidden. (I'm a 4w3-fixer and I relate to that to a degree, but the sp-9w1 veil "tones it down"/"filters it out" so that it's just a whisper, or a hint of drama in my expression.)

    I don't have much experience with 4w3s and I'm just theorizing here - even I'm taking my opinions with a grain of salt. I wouldn't mind if anyone shares their differing opinions and experiences.
    I think that both 3w4s and 4w3s have a tendency to act like their ideal selves in hopes they can actually become them, but 4w3s are more acutely aware that they're not being 100% sincere, which creates more shame, which drives the need to reject their real selves and reach for the idealized self even more. The healthier a 4w3 becomes, the more genuinely open they can be, and the more authentically the public self/persona reflects the real person underneath. (This is probably more essentially e3...but from what I've seen it applies to 4w3s, to a degree). In the case that the 4w3 is healthy, there will be more equanimity but also less inhibition about expressing their true feelings in the moment, and the person would probably come across as less pretentious/affected/melodramatic, and instead would be more grounded while still being expressive and colorful. <-- This probably depends on stacking, too. I could see a painfully shy Social 4w3 coming across as more dramatic and forceful as they get healthier.

    I think the level of obvious emotional expressiveness might correlate with stacking (sx-doms are probably the least filtered, sx-lasts the most) and the level of extroversion. ENFP 4w3s are the most likely to appear have any resemblance to the stereotype Chanaynay mentions; in contrast, I knew an INFP 4w3 who was very shy and socially awkward, though she did have a dramatic edge that was apparent in her writing and around people she knew well.

  2. #12
    eye of the storm magpie's Avatar
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    I've read a bit of what people have said about 4w3s on this site and most of it was contradictory and confusing. I based my typing off descriptions from other places that seemed a bit deeper and... kinder, somehow.

    And I agree with what some of the above posters have said, that 4w3s have ideals set for themselves, and I can only talk about myself, obviously, but I think in some ways the longing itself has more meaning than actually reaching any of those ideals. I've read about contradiction being a theme with 4w3s and I think it's true. The intensity of feeling and the need for expression versus the fear of what destruction expression might cause. Control versus lack of control. But I don't think that with 4w3s there's a "real" person hiding underneath, or anything like that. It's all real. I've realized that as I've become more comfortable with myself I've become far more more comfortable being around other people, and I think that the fact that I am louder, friendlier and more sociable around others isn't part of some sort of split in personality or forced inauthenticity.

    Oh, here's what I read (about contradiction): 4w3s are marked by multiple dichotomies due to types 3 and 4 being opposites in so many ways: inferior/superior, being/becoming, self-conscious/confident, putting themselves down/glorifying themselves, withdrawn/assertive, emotional/flatlined, reactive/cool-headed, mired in the past/focused on moving forward, awkward/poised, fragile/resilient, easily discouraged/do whatever it takes, rejecting the game/conquering the game.
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  3. #13
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    4w3 are more flamboyant than 4w5. Boy George much? I originally typed myself as 4w3 and its still my heart fix. It's probably Lana del Reys heart fix even if she is a 9...4w3 like to stand out as personas or artistes. A lot of writers who don't really write but live like hipsters are likely 4w3...it doesn't.necessarily mean "loud."
    Lana is such a 4w3. Haven't you heard Born to Die?!

    Even the video is...



    Quote Originally Posted by Saoirse View Post
    I remember reading that 4w3s often have an ideal self that is far more uninhibited and freely expressive than how they really feel (inhibited, even "trapped in themselves", and self-conscious), and that they may have a flamboyant air in public and seem emotionally open, but in reality the deepest feelings (especially their deepest shame and the source of it) remain hidden.
    That sounds about right to me too.
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  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Lana is such a 4w3. Haven't you heard Born to Die?!

    Even the video is...




    That sounds about right to me too.
    I have heard all of her music, I am only trumped as a fan by the person she got a restraining order against. In all seriousness though, I know all of her unreleased stuff, and I know how many others were involved in Born to Die vs. Ultraviolence and her earlier stuff...so, going by her interviews I got a real sense of her being non confrontational and floating in her own detached head space in a body oriented way, also she idealizes holy perfect love in many of her songs. But the invention of an ideal self that she created down to the name strikes me as 4w3 ...they're the only two types I would accept for her, honestly. 9s integrate at 3 so they get more motivated when they focus on success, which she did, and would explain 3 characteristics. They disintegrate at nervous paranoia of an unhealthy 6, and she has horrific stage fright or rather she used to, which I think contributes to the creation of the Lana shell, like the look empowers her to be confident.

    She's one or the other.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Cloud of Thunder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chanaynay View Post
    I sometimes see people saying 4w3 is more extravagant, loud, flashy, showy, etc even though it's still one of the more introverted types (if not one of the most along with 5) of the Enneagram. I think 4w3 is still just as withdrawn, sensitive, and inward-focused, just with more of an orientation towards appearing impressive to others.

    Just something I'm wondering about.
    It's probably an attempt to set it apart from the 4w5, which is considered the more intellectual, loner type of 4.
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  6. #16
    As Long As It Takes.... Redbone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hel View Post
    Oh, here's what I read (about contradiction): 4w3s are marked by multiple dichotomies due to types 3 and 4 being opposites in so many ways: inferior/superior, being/becoming, self-conscious/confident, putting themselves down/glorifying themselves, withdrawn/assertive, emotional/flatlined, reactive/cool-headed, mired in the past/focused on moving forward, awkward/poised, fragile/resilient, easily discouraged/do whatever it takes, rejecting the game/conquering the game.
    I read this, too. It's one of the things that convinced me that I was a 4w3. Am and am not all those things! It made it so difficult to decide on an enneagram type...they fit but didn't fit, too (thought I was a 5, then 7, now 4). These contradictions were so accurate for me.

  7. #17
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chanaynay View Post
    I sometimes see people saying 4w3 is more extravagant, loud, flashy, showy, etc even though it's still one of the more introverted types (if not one of the most along with 5) of the Enneagram. I think 4w3 is still just as withdrawn, sensitive, and inward-focused, just with more of an orientation towards appearing impressive to others.
    Just something I'm wondering about.
    it's typically the Sexual 4w3 which is more flamaboyant, extravagant diva. Social 4w3 is whinier and more shame-ridden (like that Christa Aguilera song "I am Beautiful"). as for Sp 4w3s, I can't think of a good example (though they would probably be a lot more chill than the other 4w3)
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  8. #18
    Symbolic Herald Vasilisa's Avatar
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    *Mod edit: Lana Del Rey tangent moved here, please keep this thread on topic, thanks*
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  9. #19
    Paranoid Android Video's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    it's typically the Sexual 4w3 which is more flamaboyant, extravagant diva. Social 4w3 is whinier and more shame-ridden (like that Christa Aguilera song "I am Beautiful"). as for Sp 4w3s, I can't think of a good example (though they would probably be a lot more chill than the other 4w3)
    I'm close on the sp and so. Though I have only myself for experience, I feel my sp-first may make me seem more 3w4-ish than the others. When I visit the differences between 3 and 4, though, it becomes all too clear which is the true core. You'll know it more the closer you are to me, too. I am more chill...up to the moment that I'm not. The public/intimate split in expression that comes up in descriptions of both of these types is stronger in me than it seems to be in at least sx 4s - it has been that way since childhood.
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