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  1. #1
    my floof is luxury Wind Up Rex's Avatar
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    Default The Love and Care of an E5

    I am hoping to start a general discussion on love and E5s. Much to my delight, I've recently gotten involved with an INTJ 5w4. I had always found 5s to be attractive, but was of the general impression that I was a little too crude for them.

    Whatever the case may have been, I seemed to have hit it off with this guy, but am admittedly ignorant as to much of anything about 5s. What moves them? What are--generally speaking--deal breakers? What tends to make them feel cared for and respected?

    Naturally, a lot of this will have to be worked out with him as we get to know each other, but I'd love to hear from men and women who identify as 5s just to get some general feedback. What tend to be your insecurities when it comes to relationships? What do you feel are your strengths as partners?

    There's been a lot about the INTJ that has been unexpectedly delightful--the blend of geeky introversion interwoven with definite opinion, swagger and vulnerability, and all that jazz--and he seems to be into me as well. Not sure how it will all end up, but I'm open to pointers on how not to fuck it up.

    Thoughts?
    And so long as you haven’t experienced this: to die and so to grow,
    you are only a troubled guest on the dark earth

  2. #2
    The Typing Tabby grey_beard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wind Up Rex View Post
    I am hoping to start a general discussion on love and E5s. Much to my delight, I've recently gotten involved with an INTJ 5w4. I had always found 5s to be attractive, but was of the general impression that I was a little too crude for them.

    Whatever the case may have been, I seemed to have hit it off with this guy, but am admittedly ignorant as to much of anything about 5s. What moves them? What are--generally speaking--deal breakers? What tends to make them feel cared for and respected?

    Naturally, a lot of this will have to be worked out with him as we get to know each other, but I'd love to hear from men and women who identify as 5s just to get some general feedback. What tend to be your insecurities when it comes to relationships? What do you feel are your strengths as partners?

    There's been a lot about the INTJ that has been unexpectedly delightful--the blend of geeky introversion interwoven with definite opinion, swagger and vulnerability, and all that jazz--and he seems to be into me as well. Not sure how it will all end up, but I'm open to pointers on how not to fuck it up.

    Thoughts?
    @Wind Up Rex --

    I'm an INTJ 5w4 male.

    The way to my heart is through my brain.
    Don't challenge: that is, not with the intent to *win*.

    But don't *let* him win intellectually either: it must be a tussle, a romp, with sparks flying off the anvil, peals of laughter, puns, jest, "tag you're it" with a twinkle in your eye at him, before darting away, making him *work* to catch you...

    Strength as a partner is unerring loyalty: but if you're under the INTJ armor, don't damage anything in the Fi, internal marshmallow fluff.

    INTJs have *NO* internal-facing defenses.

    And if they see or realize, you've aimed at damaging them, and succeed: you'll be lucky if you escape with a doorslam, almost certainly irrevocable, rather than a nuclear strike.

    Playful, sincere admiration, once you have his notice -- followed by (girlish giggle on your part) surrender.

    Until it's time for the next round...

    Oh, one other thing. 5w4 INTJ alpha males are capable of almost unspeakable bursts of intensity (in the terawatt range) [EDITED: petawatt to exawatt, in homage to 0.5 megaton/sec firepower for extended periods benchmark] for short periods, but then they need to recharge. ALONE. Only exceptions being throw his favorite sandwich into the door of the computer room, and leave, or ... [censored]. And either way NO emotional demands should be made on him during the recharge.

    Insecurities center around loyalty and faithfulness *towards* us. We don't cheat and so are devastated if we find we have been cheated *on*.

    Some insecurities may center around in-person social activities, or punctuality / time management; we aren't xNFP-flighty enough when schedules slip.

    Good activities include whatever his interests are (an INTJ in "happily-aerosol-spray-can-of-knowledge" mode is a wonder to behold!); introducing him to new books, music, art, or restaurants; non-competitive sports or hobbies (hiking, bicycling, that kind of thing); and in some cases, video games.

    INTJs are often sticklers for punctuality and order; but some can be almost as slovenly as an INFP, due to the utterly single-minded focus on the latest interest, and forgetting to cook, eat, or pretty much anything else while the intense data download is going on.

    Best wishes.
    Last edited by grey_beard; 06-02-2014 at 09:46 PM. Reason: punctuation on "aerosol" and environs; and add word 'mode'
    "Love never needs time. But friendship always needs time. More and more and more time, up to long past midnight." -- The Crime of Captain Gahagan

    Please comment on my johari / nohari pages.

  3. #3
    Blood of the Exile Animal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grey_beard View Post
    @Wind Up Rex --

    I'm an INTJ 5w4 male.

    The way to my heart is through my brain.
    Don't challenge: that is, not with the intent to *win*.

    But don't *let* him win intellectually either: it must be a tussle, a romp, with sparks flying off the anvil, peals of laughter, puns, jest, "tag you're it" with a twinkle in your eye at him, before darting away, making him *work* to catch you...

    Strength as a partner is unerring loyalty: but if you're under the INTJ armor, don't damage anything in the Fi, internal marshmallow fluff.

    INTJs have *NO* internal-facing defenses.

    And if they see or realize, you've aimed at damaging them, and succeed: you'll be lucky if you escape with a doorslam, almost certainly irrevocable, rather than a nuclear strike.

    Playful, sincere admiration, once you have his notice -- followed by (girlish giggle on your part) surrender.

    Until it's time for the next round...

    Oh, one other thing. 5w4 INTJ alpha males are capable of almost unspeakable bursts of intensity (in the terawatt range) for short periods, but then they need to recharge. ALONE. Only exceptions being throw his favorite sandwich into the door of the computer room, and leave, or ... [censored]. And either way NO emotional demands should be made on him during the recharge.

    Insecurities center around loyalty and faithfulness *towards* us. We don't cheat and so are devastated if we find we have been cheated *on*.

    Some insecurities may center around in-person social activities, or punctuality / time management; we aren't xNFP-flighty enough when schedules slip.

    Good activities include whatever his interests are (an INTJ in "happily aerosol-spray can of knowledge" is a wonder to behold!); introducing him to new books, music, art, or restaurants; non-competitive sports or hobbies (hiking, bicycling, that kind of thing); and in some cases, video games.

    INTJs are often sticklers for punctuality and order; but some can be almost as slovenly as an INFP, due to the utterly single-minded focus on the latest interest, and forgetting to cook, eat, or pretty much anything else while the intense data download is going on.

    Best wishes.
    I dated an INTJ 5w4 and I wholeheartedly agree with what you wrote here.
    He could have written a lot of it himself.
    Art is the blood of the Exile
    4w3 6w7 8w9 ~ Sx/Sp ~ ISTP ~ LSI-Se

  4. #4
    my floof is luxury Wind Up Rex's Avatar
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    Thank you for your response, @grey_beard.

    What did you mean by the lack of "internally facing defenses"?
    And so long as you haven’t experienced this: to die and so to grow,
    you are only a troubled guest on the dark earth

  5. #5
    The Typing Tabby grey_beard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wind Up Rex View Post
    Thank you for your response, @grey_beard.

    What did you mean by the lack of "internally facing defenses"?
    @Wind Up Rex --

    An INTJ has the functions Ni, Te, Fi, Se.

    The stereotypical way to characterize them is that of an armored vehicle, a tank, with no emotions.
    But that's not true -- all their emotions are on the inside.
    So they're like an impenetrable armored shell, but if you happen to get inside that, there's nothing
    of any hardness or durability at all -- it's like marshmallow fluff *all the way down*.

    But everything that involves analysis, or categorizing, at which they are so formidable, and which
    they could use to defend themselves, is *OUTWARDLY DIRECTED*.

    Which means, that if they've trusted someone, and let them inside the armor -- a three-year-old
    armed with only a pea shooter could conquer them entirely inside of a week.

    Therefore, if you have been trusted, and you hurt them...the ONLY option they have, is to kick you out,
    and to put in fresh, brand-new armor on everything you've ever touched.

    Another way to put it, is if you hurt them on the inside, it's like severing an emotional artery.
    Their only hope is to stop the bleeding, IMMEDIATELY, and irrevocably, lest they bleed to death.
    The way they do this is autocauterization: everything having had to do with you, emotionally,
    is charred, burnt, sealed by fire, all at once, in order to close the blood vessels and stop the bleeding.

    Yes, it's painful: but being self-inflicted, it's much easier for an INTJ to heal from that, than
    from damage inflicted by another.

    Sorry if that isn't much use: I honestly to goodnessly don't have any other language to describe it.
    "Love never needs time. But friendship always needs time. More and more and more time, up to long past midnight." -- The Crime of Captain Gahagan

    Please comment on my johari / nohari pages.

  6. #6
    WhoCares
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    Quote Originally Posted by grey_beard View Post
    @Wind Up Rex --

    Therefore, if you have been trusted, and you hurt them...the ONLY option they have, is to kick you out,
    and to put in fresh, brand-new armor on everything you've ever touched.
    This. I will never allow another person under that defense again. The bleeding never ends. I feel as if I shall always be weaker for that wound.

  7. #7
    The Typing Tabby grey_beard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhoCares View Post
    This. I will never allow another person under that defense again. The bleeding never ends. I feel as if I shall always be weaker for that wound.
    @WhoCares -- I am desperately sorry to hear that. Let me encourage you by saying that you *can* heal; it is just that you need to do the root cause analysis yourself;
    which can be excruciatingly slow and painful. Paradoxically, one of the best ways to do this, is *NOT* to introspect directly; you'll just end up in an Ni-Fi infinite loop.
    Rather, find as close an analog to the pain or the relationship which hurt you, as you can, in the OUTSIDE world, among other people. Set your Te on "automated seek and destroy" mode and pull in as many parallels from your analysis as you can. With any luck, you'll get enough factual/emotional nodes to hang an Ni approximation mesh onto, and you can then intuit the real causes of your own pain, at which point solutions and healings become intuitively obvious.

    Best wishes.
    "Love never needs time. But friendship always needs time. More and more and more time, up to long past midnight." -- The Crime of Captain Gahagan

    Please comment on my johari / nohari pages.

  8. #8
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    Provide good sex & intellectual stimulation without drama and everything should be smooth. If you want something more serious, try to support him with his goals (INTJs tend to be ambitious). Add value to his life, basically.

    What are--generally speaking--deal breakers?
    Bitchiness, unreliability, emotional neediness.

  9. #9
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    I'm pretty sure 5s secretly envy and crave the 8's unapologetic approach to life where they swoop in, take what they want and thoroughly enjoy it before they find a new target to conquer.

    I think a lot of how you are naturally would be energizing and exciting to them, so that's always a good start.

  10. #10
    The Typing Tabby grey_beard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by senza tema View Post
    I'm pretty sure 5s secretly envy and crave the 8's unapologetic approach to life where they swoop in, take what they want and thoroughly enjoy it before they find a new target to conquer.

    I think a lot of how you are naturally would be energizing and exciting to them, so that's always a good start.
    @senza tema -- Thanks for posting that; didn't I read somewhere that the 5 *integrates* to an 8?
    "Love never needs time. But friendship always needs time. More and more and more time, up to long past midnight." -- The Crime of Captain Gahagan

    Please comment on my johari / nohari pages.

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