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Thread: Ask a 1w2

  1. #31
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloud of Thunder View Post
    In other words, the difference between Being Someone (4) and Doing Something (1).
    IMO it's messier than that. Type 1 can have a VERY strong sense of identity IME, but it is created by the 1's actions. If you talk to a 1 about their sense of identity, they will probably have a set of adjectives all picked out, a set of core values/beliefs that they live by, that they define themselves by. "I am a person who does ___" = "I am ___". They try to keep that as consistent as possible, because if it changes, then that means they were doing it WRONG before. Which is why it's so unnerving to us, to watch 4s constantly shift their value systems and identities around. They're pretty much taking this thing that type 1 sees as the ultimate symbol of failure and pain -- i.e. disowning everything they stand for and starting fresh -- and doing it over and over again, for fun.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cloud of Thunder View Post
    Comfort with "messy" emotions and wanting to control and quell them.
    Comfort? That's interesting. From this angle it always seems less comforting and more masochistic.
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  2. #32
    So she did. small.wonder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    IMO it's messier than that. Type 1 can have a VERY strong sense of identity IME, but it is created by the 1's actions. If you talk to a 1 about their sense of identity, they will probably have a set of adjectives all picked out, a set of core values/beliefs that they live by, that they define themselves by. "I am a person who does ___" = "I am ___". They try to keep that as consistent as possible, because if it changes, then that means they were doing it WRONG before. Which is why it's so unnerving to us, to watch 4s constantly shift their value systems and identities around. They're pretty much taking this thing that type 1 sees as the ultimate symbol of failure and pain -- i.e. disowning everything they stand for and starting fresh -- and doing it over and over again, for fun.
    Hmm...had to comment on this because I think there's a bit of a misconception here. 4's are constantly searching for their true identity, yes (at least in average and low health). Forsaking their values however, is not part of that at all. It's not so much experimentation with life and morality, as it is a search within ourselves to get to the bottom of who we really are. We explore things pertaining to personal style, vocation, means of expression, spiritual truth etc. Also, motivation check: we don't do this for fun but as a quest for the authentic (which can be a tumultuous struggle). We feel that existing in a way that is not genuine is worthless (our version of the "doing it WRONG" you mentioned, though ours is determined by the truth of who we are, not an overarching rightness)-- we want to present our true self, even if it's ugly, strange or not culturally normal. To live "as if we have it all together" is completely foreign to 4's-- yes, even when integrating to 1. We still wear our hearts on our sleeves, just in a more matter of fact, direct way.

    I hope the above is not taken the wrong way in the least, I mean it only as a clarification of the above and why 4's might rub you the wrong way (heck, I know my disintegration point does!). I actually like 1's for the most, I am close with three (two w/9's and a w/2) which makes my inner circle pretty Reformer-ish. Those friends are actually the reason this thread piqued my interest.

    I have definitely noticed that I have driven 1's bonkers before (unintentionally) and in one case in particular, found that it was my lawless-ness that drove her crazy. This was in part due to the fact that she had chained herself down very tightly with rules, and I believe was envious (note: a symptom of disintegration) for the freedom I had to be myself. I suppose there are a variety of ways each type can drive the other crazy!
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  3. #33
    Glamour puss with a tan Raffaella's Avatar
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    • In your childhood, did you always play the "adult" role? Where you rewarded for it?
    • What's your perception of E9? What do you admire? What do you think needs to be improved upon? What advice, if you have any, would you give?
    • What's you perception of E8? What do you admire? What do you think needs to be improved upon? What advice, if you have any, would you give?

  4. #34
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deceptive View Post
    • In your childhood, did you always play the "adult" role? Where you rewarded for it?
    Not really. I wanted to be the authority figure, the judge, the leader, the teacher, but not really the "adult" per say. I had maturity problems as I grew up with Asperger's and didn't always execute social things correctly. When I hear the term "adult" I usually think mature and well behaved. Assuming that, I almost never did even when I tried, and I was often punished or in trouble for not doing things correctly. That said, I was often rewarded or regarded for organizing or leading people as that aspect came naturally. When I was given some sort of power, structure, or control then I behaved rather well. It's when I had to be subservient or just listen/behave without given a reason or understanding why. I had problem sitting still and being quiet unless I was stimulated in some regard.

    That said, I was always considered rather "adult" with my observations of others.


    Quote Originally Posted by Deceptive View Post
    • What's your perception of E9? What do you admire? What do you think needs to be improved upon? What advice, if you have any, would you give?
    I don't relate to E9 at all. In many ways it is the opposite of me. The only thing I relate to with them is I do seek peace/harmony to keep myself stable, but who doesn't? Either way, E9's are known for not wanting or having solid opinions; I have an opinion on pretty much everything and go out of my way to find one. They like keeping things open and free; I need things nailed down and locked in. They seek to present a calm placid position and usually speak softly; I am rather energetic, dramatic, and while not loud, I am not the least bit quiet. They fear loss, abandoment, and separation; these do not concern me at all, and I am unphased when people leave me (even suddenly). I can snip the cord quite easily myself. They avoid conflict; I attempt to defuse it, and don't have issues with wading in it if needed. I could go on for a while but I am starting to diverge. Point is, I am not like them at all.

    It's that difference that can create a problem. I suspect a lot of 9's would be put off by me. Some for "intensity" (though I don't consider myself that intense of a person, just a strong presence), but mostly for doing they kinds of things they don't want. I have had to work with 9's before and it can drive me bonkers. The former president of a group I am part of (humans vs. zombies) and I butt head a lot last year because he refused to nail anything down when I felt we had to, and when It tried to, he'd try and stop me, and do so in a passive manner. He has a spine, but he doesn't act like it and it just makes me turn up my nose in an "ick!" kind of response. The thing that drives me nuts the most is their sheer ambivalence to almost everything. Opinions aren't scary. In fact, their useful and needed. In general 9's will either irritate me, bore me to death, and in rare cases anger me if their fence sitting infringes upon me by forcing inaction.

    That said, I do admire their clear headedness and ability to see all sides of an issues pretty much every time. I'll lock into something fast (sometimes too fast) because I can think things through quickly, and I'll want to nail something and get it done. They'll get me to pause and consider something I didn't see though, and in some cases bring to like grave errors I could make for not seeing another prospective. When I was an admin on the INFJforums one of my fellow admins was a 9w1, and her ability to see all sides consistently was super admirable, and I benefited from it (we worked very well together and balanced each other). It was impossible for anyone to get mad at her or hate her. Can't say the same for myself.

    As far as thing to improve upon and advice? It's difficult to say. I mean, these are personality types we're talking about. They sort of are what they are. The best thing you can do is just better yourself. The biggest thing I would suggest to 9's is that it is ok to take a stand and be declarative from time to time. Don't lose yourself in what makes you great mediators.


    Quote Originally Posted by Deceptive View Post
    • What's you perception of E8? What do you admire? What do you think needs to be improved upon? What advice, if you have any, would you give?
    I actually don't have that much experience with E8's. I knew few online, and few IRL. My best friend in high school I strongly suspect is an ENFP E8, but I am not sold on it. Her and I got along famously. Generally I perceive them as interesting characters, but from what little I have observed they seem to be a bit too much of slaves to their anger. I don't value (nor respect really) frequent displays of anger or any negative emotion. The thing with anger though, is it can very often lead to behavior that harms another and is usually very reprehensible and unjustifyable. While I admire their ability to take charge in an unrestrained manner, it doesn't seem that it alleviates the kinds of emotional pressure I have to deal with; i.e. they still have their issues as well. Again, I have little experience with them. I wonder if I repel them or visa versa? Or perhaps my circle of friends just doesn't attract them. Upon reflection of all the people I have come to know (and at one point considered a friend), E3, and E8 have been very rare (if any). Most of my good friends end up being E7's.

    I don't really have any commentary on what needs to be improved upon except for please contain your temper. I lose a lot of respect for people who let that out often (in particular if it's vengeful or unjustifed.)
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  5. #35
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deceptive View Post
    In your childhood, did you always play the "adult" role? Where you rewarded for it?
    Yeah sort of. I was a typical only child, in that I was expected to be very self-sufficient and adult-like, but also got a lot of attention, and enjoyed getting a lot of attention. I attribute a lot of my 7-ness to that. I guess you could say I played the "adult" role in that my parents had very high expectations of me, and always saw me as mature for my age. But I saw that less as an adult role, and more as "being a good kid" and "being a smart kid".

    Quote Originally Posted by Deceptive View Post
    What's your perception of E9? What do you admire? What do you think needs to be improved upon? What advice, if you have any, would you give?
    The way they ebb and flow somehow makes them very steady, calming, and reliably chill. I'm always impressed by that. Not sure about improvements because the 9 that drives me the most crazy is an INFJ, and a lot of the things that drive me crazy about him are INFJ-related as well as 9-related. I don't think I have any advice -- but then again, if a 9 is in a place where I'd need to give them advice, they'd probably ignore it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deceptive View Post
    What's you perception of E8? What do you admire? What do you think needs to be improved upon? What advice, if you have any, would you give?
    I admire that they have no qualms about saying what everyone's thinking, and letting out all the anger that I always hold in. But I can get into this anger cycle with them, as well as with counterphobic sixes, where their anger makes me angrier, which makes me angry at THEM for making me angry, etc. And I usually end up holding that in because I don't want it to turn into a huge argument. I'm not sure I have any advice for them. Maybe to pick your battles, and to remember that kindness, restraint, etc., are not weaknesses, but are tactical tools.
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



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  6. #36
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    What type(s) do you find yourself commonly not getting along with?

  7. #37
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    How did others tend to perceive you as you were growing up?
    7w6 - 2w3 - 8w7 sx/so


  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noll View Post
    What type(s) do you find yourself commonly not getting along with?
    I think I have answered this before. Either way E4's top the list, and E9's are a close second. After that it's hard to draw patterns.


    Quote Originally Posted by Chanaynay View Post
    How did others tend to perceive you as you were growing up?
    I really ran the gambit with this one. Some people saw me as wise, some saw me as immature, some saw me as friendly and giving, some saw me as selfish, some saw me as cautious, some saw me as a walking tornado. The general consensus between everyone though was that I was curious, earnest, imaginative, talkative/friendly, moody, leader-type, and somewhat hyperactive.
    MBTI: ExxJ tetramer
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  9. #39
    Senior Member riva's Avatar
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    If dating a/married to a e1 are there day to day minor things in general to e1s - and preferably limited to e1s - that could be done to avoid annoying you and make you happy?
    .

  10. #40
    Glamour puss with a tan Raffaella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    Not really. I wanted to be the authority figure, the judge, the leader, the teacher, but not really the "adult" per say. I had maturity problems as I grew up with Asperger's and didn't always execute social things correctly. When I hear the term "adult" I usually think mature and well behaved. Assuming that, I almost never did even when I tried, and I was often punished or in trouble for not doing things correctly. That said, I was often rewarded or regarded for organizing or leading people as that aspect came naturally. When I was given some sort of power, structure, or control then I behaved rather well. It's when I had to be subservient or just listen/behave without given a reason or understanding why. I had problem sitting still and being quiet unless I was stimulated in some regard.
    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Yeah sort of. I was a typical only child, in that I was expected to be very self-sufficient and adult-like, but also got a lot of attention, and enjoyed getting a lot of attention. I attribute a lot of my 7-ness to that. I guess you could say I played the "adult" role in that my parents had very high expectations of me, and always saw me as mature for my age. But I saw that less as an adult role, and more as "being a good kid" and "being a smart kid".

    I should have expounded on the basis of the question; Riso and Hudson’s enneagram podcast (the enneagram one description is approximately 5 minutes) stated this regarding the childhood of an E1:

    As children, ones were good boys and good girls who learned to discipline and restrain themselves and postpone rewards until their work was done. They often disliked or distrusted authority figures who they usually saw as unjust or arbitrary or indifferent. As a result, young ones decided to take the issue of reward and punishment onto themselves. Their own consciences would be their guide, they were praised and rewarded for being adult and rational at an early age and may not have had a very happy or carefree childhood.

    Which is interesting as I would say it somewhat corresponds to your childhoods.


    E9's are known for not wanting or having solid opinions; I have an opinion on pretty much everything and go out of my way to find one. They like keeping things open and free; I need things nailed down and locked in.

    It's that difference that can create a problem. I suspect a lot of 9's would be put off by me. Some for "intensity" (though I don't consider myself that intense of a person, just a strong presence), but mostly for doing they kinds of things they don't want... The thing that drives me nuts the most is their sheer ambivalence to almost everything... In general 9's will either irritate me, bore me to death, and in rare cases anger me if their fence sitting infringes upon me by forcing inaction.

    When I was an admin on the INFJforums one of my fellow admins was a 9w1... It was impossible for anyone to get mad at her or hate her. Can't say the same for myself.
    I was curious if our perceptions of each other (E1, E9) were what I assumed (which it is). I’ve always respected ones for their self-discipline, rational decision-making and grounded nature. But, you’re right, ones do play the bad cop to the nines' good cop. I’ve seen ones make imperative decisions despite how undesirability to the populace, repeatedly, and stand by them. It’s a quality I’ve admired and desired but never tried to develop since I lack the tenacity and certitude. The irony is what I admire about ones is also what I dislike about them; I tend to keep E1s at a distance (IRL) because I’m usually in the average levels of the enneagram and we clash often due to their obstinacy and my passivity and detachment.

    but then again, if a 9 is in a place where I'd need to give them advice, they'd probably ignore it.
    Accurate. You know us well, there's really no type more stubborn than a disgruntled, dispassionate nine.
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