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Thread: Ask a 1w2

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chanaynay View Post
    In the movie (with Chris Pine ), definitely. I'd say ISTJ 5w6 sp/so.

    I haven't heard much about the show, but the main typing I've seen of him with good reasoning behind it is INTJ 1w9 sp/sx.
    That very well may be correct, I haven't watched any newer versions of the Star Trek show but rather based my opinion from a Star Trek movie that was released 5-6 years ago.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Mxru4FJEIw

  2. #22
    Senior Member Cloud of Thunder's Avatar
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    What do you think of 4s, your stress type?
    The only way out is through. The faster you're in, the better.

  3. #23
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloud of Thunder View Post
    What do you think of 4s, your stress type?
    Prefacing this with the typical preface: pretty much everyone has a negative gut reaction to their stress type, in some way or another.

    There's a lot I don't understand about 4s -- especially how they can prioritize individual identity above all, without ever seeming to be able to gain a steady grasp on it. There are also things I appreciate about them. I appreciate that they're very wise in a lot of ways. I appreciate their kindness and compassion. On the negative side, it bothers me that they don't seem to understand others' emotional limits, namely that not everyone has the same capacity for, or willingness to take on, heavy loads of feeling.

    The way that 4s seem to be raw almost all the time is pretty triggering, precisely because that's how 1s are in their absolute darkest moments. On more than one occasion, and with more than one person, it's made me try to "fix" the 4, only to figure out that that rawness was their standard operating procedure -- that what I perceived to be the problem, was actually their solution. Hard for me not to see that as unnecessarily dramatic and masochistic, even though it works for them and gives them a different kind of strength.
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    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



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  4. #24
    climb on Showbread's Avatar
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    How do you generally interact with 2w1s?

    What do you do in situations where you are 85% sure that you are right, but the person you are arguing with also seems very confident? Do you fight for the last word? Or let them have it?
    Friends, waffles, work

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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Showbread View Post
    How do you generally interact with 2w1s?
    I like 'em. I feel like we have a lot of the same priorities, so we can have pretty accurate working assumptions about each other. Ideally we'd agree on most things, because I'd hate to ever have to see that 8 disintegration aimed at me!
    Quote Originally Posted by Showbread View Post
    What do you do in situations where you are 85% sure that you are right, but the person you are arguing with also seems very confident? Do you fight for the last word? Or let them have it?
    This would probably differ pretty widely depending on the 1w2 (attn @Hard ), but in my case, it's never really about the last word, nor is it really about "winning" -- it's about either convincing them, or being convinced. You'd think that without the focus on winning, I'd be less intense about it, but I'm VERY resistant to leaving a discussion like that without having some kind of closure, or a good stopping point. In a case like what you described, I'd decide whether it was likely that I'd convince them entirely -- and if not, I'd try for a smaller goal, and then call it a day.
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
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    want to ask me something? go for it!

  6. #26
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloud of Thunder View Post
    What do you think of 4s, your stress type?
    Not a fan. They're the enneagram type that usually causes the strongest "ick" response with me. Not all are bad of course, and I am close with a few, but by and large I don't like most E4's. There is simply way way too much focus on the self, to the point where it comes across as snooty. Or, it makes the individual seem like they have no self-esteem. The constant need to refine who they are, what they believe, and what makes them an individual is just, annoying and at worst egotistical. I guess a lot of it comes from the idea of needing to be genuine and authentic just never crosses my mind. Reason being is I simply see that stuff as implicit. I like what I like and that's that. Of course there are times where I feel twinges of guilt or shame for liking something that is attached to a bad image or w/e, but it's not a big deal and certainly not my focus. Many can get stuck wallowing in self-pity saying "I suck" kind of things, and it's just frustrating. Get the stick out of your ass and try and do something about it. I value productivity and effort which is something 4's shirk sometimes. This is more seen with 9's, but 4's can also have issues meekness, which greatly annoys me. Grow. A. Spine. Interestingly I don't have problems with 9's because they are often very unassuming so their issues can easily be ignored. 4's sometimes put on a show for attention. Ahem, yeah no.

    And of course, there's ye olde mirror effect. Because of it being the dissolve point, I can and do enter modes like this. It's not exactly like 4's do, but I can get overcome with so much "I'm imperfect and broken" from repeated failures and not meeting standards that I can start to wallow in ick, and I hate myself for it. I am very ashamed of it and try and hide it from everyone as much as I can. I crack (and do so more on forums than elsewhere). I really detest becoming like something that I do not like in others. In a way, it invalidates my wanting to bonk people on the head for it because I do it sometimes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Showbread View Post
    How do you generally interact with 2w1s?

    What do you do in situations where you are 85% sure that you are right, but the person you are arguing with also seems very confident? Do you fight for the last word? Or let them have it?
    I like 2's. When they get bent out of shape for not being "needed" enough or useful when it wasn't asked I can quell that in them quite easily. Essentially I can work with them very easily. I don't really identify with 2's very much though. It's my wing mostly because I do not identify with 9 at all. I'm like the inverse of a 9. Usually though their quite cordial and I very much respect that and get on board with it. I don't have any 2's in my life to my knowledge so it's difficult to say much.

    85%? Hmm... hard to say. I think that number wobbles a little, but I generally only go gung ho balls to the wall "I'm right, you're wrong" when I know I am 100% right, and with facts to back it up. You want to set me off? Keep resisting in those situations. Even if there is a little uncertainty I tend to not get too rigid, because I really do not like making mistakes, it makes me feel horrible. I'll argue my point strongly, but openly acknowledge my uncertainty. It would also depend on how they respond, if they're really gung ho about it and won't ease off I will attempt to agree to disagree. If that doesn't work, then I'll make a declarative conversation-ending statement so I can close it (don't like things being open ended).

    Sometimes the last word matters, other times it doesn't. Generally don't care. What I care about is closing the argument or discussion with as little uncertainty as possible. I'll usually go "ok, we don't agree, I think this, you think that, there's no common ground, you won't budge, there isn't any point in discussing anymore, I am ending it here." and if they reply after that (usually) I won't care because I laid the cores on the table. I let people have the last word if they either deserve it, need it, or the conversation is neutral.
    MBTI: ExxJ tetramer
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    Socionics: β-E dimer | -
    Big 5: slOaI
    Temperament: Choleric/Melancholic
    Alignment: Lawful Neutral
    External Perception: Nohari and Johari


  7. #27
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    The constant need to refine who they are, what they believe, and what makes them an individual
    The bolded drives me a little nuts, too. My gut reaction to it is distrust, because it suggests that their core values aren't really core values, so much as they are a fun little game to pick apart. Except that they clearly do care about those values -- especially when they're well-integrated to 1. Yet another example of the necessity of setting that gut reaction aside.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    I guess a lot of it comes from the idea of needing to be genuine and authentic just never crosses my mind. Reason being is I simply see that stuff as implicit. I like what I like and that's that.
    Yeah it seems to be an interesting irony of type 4, that they're one of the only types that ISN'T like that, and yet they care so much about their individual identity. I think the difference is that they're pickier and more perfectionistic about it. Something that we, as 1s, can relate to, except that the identity we're picky about is this sort of Platonic ideal that's hovering over us 24/7, rarely changing, if ever.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    What I care about is closing the argument or discussion with as little uncertainty as possible. I'll usually go "ok, we don't agree, I think this, you think that, there's no common ground, you won't budge, there isn't any point in discussing anymore, I am ending it here."
    Yep, same.
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
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    want to ask me something? go for it!

  8. #28
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    The bolded drives me a little nuts, too. My gut reaction to it is distrust, because it suggests that their core values aren't really core values, so much as they are a fun little game to pick apart. Except that they clearly do care about those values -- especially when they're well-integrated to 1. Yet another example of the necessity of setting that gut reaction aside.

    Yeah it seems to be an interesting irony of type 4, that they're one of the only types that ISN'T like that, and yet they care so much about their individual identity. I think the difference is that they're pickier and more perfectionistic about it. Something that we, as 1s, can relate to, except that the identity we're picky about is this sort of Platonic ideal that's hovering over us 24/7, rarely changing, if ever.

    Yep, same.
    The bold is a really interesting point. 4's often are quite perfectionistic in general, and I see it in many of them here, and in real life. What baffles me though is how they go about it and what they are perfectionistic about. They're completely different from the perfectionism I have in myself. It's more that who/what they are must be right. Where as with 1's it more of what we do must be right. Internal versus external in a way. I mean I do have a little of "what I am must be right" but it's almost always to fix an external "do".

    I also agree on the distrust bit. It's ironic really, they put so much effort on getting their core internals right that it can make them seem ingenuine to me, which is exactly what they don't want. I used to just hate all 4's in the past, but it was all a gut reaction "ew... a 4? blegh, they must be like this, this and this. Ain't no one got time for that!" more often than not they're fine or even lovely people. They can be remarkablly kind, sweet, and caring, to the point where sometimes I feel like I am gonna get diabetes .

    I don't know if you relate to this, but 1's in general have a lot of tension. I hold in a lot and if I am poked at the right angle, it starts to uncork (and 4's can be quite good at this). It's sort of like someone hugging you, and you're like "stop, let go, let GO! *KICK* LET ME GO RARRHH... *sobs uncontrolably* I'm so deprived T_T"
    MBTI: ExxJ tetramer
    Functions: Fe > Te > Ni > Se > Si > Ti > Fi > Ne
    Enneagram: 1w2 - 3w4 - 6w5 (The Taskmaster) | sp/so
    Socionics: β-E dimer | -
    Big 5: slOaI
    Temperament: Choleric/Melancholic
    Alignment: Lawful Neutral
    External Perception: Nohari and Johari


  9. #29
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    The bold is a really interesting point. 4's often are quite perfectionistic in general, and I see it in many of them here, and in real life. What baffles me though is how they go about it and what they are perfectionistic about. They're completely different from the perfectionism I have in myself. It's more that who/what they are must be right. Where as with 1's it more of what we do must be right. Internal versus external in a way. I mean I do have a little of "what I am must be right" but it's almost always to fix an external "do".
    Which is why we so often disintegrate to 4 when we haven't been doing things right in a while. External validation fades away and all we're left with is wrongness, ineptitude. And the only way out is to pull yourself up and do things right again.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    I also agree on the distrust bit. It's ironic really, they put so much effort on getting their core internals right that it can make them seem ingenuine to me, which is exactly what they don't want.
    I get the strongest vibe on that from less healthy 4s, and I think that's because there's some overcompensation in there. Whereas with a more mature and healthy 4 that's integrated to 1, it's easier to see that refining as part of a quest for a similar kind of "rightness" to what us 1s are looking for.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    I don't know if you relate to this, but 1's in general have a lot of tension. I hold in a lot and if I am poked at the right angle, it starts to uncork (and 4's can be quite good at this). It's sort of like someone hugging you, and you're like "stop, let go, let GO! *KICK* LET ME GO RARRHH... *sobs uncontrolably* I'm so deprived T_T"
    Usually I save the sobbing until no one's around, but the rest of that I can relate to.
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
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    want to ask me something? go for it!

  10. #30
    Senior Member Cloud of Thunder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    Not a fan. They're the enneagram type that usually causes the strongest "ick" response with me. Not all are bad of course, and I am close with a few, but by and large I don't like most E4's. There is simply way way too much focus on the self, to the point where it comes across as snooty. Or, it makes the individual seem like they have no self-esteem. The constant need to refine who they are, what they believe, and what makes them an individual is just, annoying and at worst egotistical. I guess a lot of it comes from the idea of needing to be genuine and authentic just never crosses my mind. Reason being is I simply see that stuff as implicit. I like what I like and that's that. Of course there are times where I feel twinges of guilt or shame for liking something that is attached to a bad image or w/e, but it's not a big deal and certainly not my focus. Many can get stuck wallowing in self-pity saying "I suck" kind of things, and it's just frustrating. Get the stick out of your ass and try and do something about it. I value productivity and effort which is something 4's shirk sometimes. This is more seen with 9's, but 4's can also have issues meekness, which greatly annoys me. Grow. A. Spine. Interestingly I don't have problems with 9's because they are often very unassuming so their issues can easily be ignored. 4's sometimes put on a show for attention. Ahem, yeah no.

    And of course, there's ye olde mirror effect. Because of it being the dissolve point, I can and do enter modes like this. It's not exactly like 4's do, but I can get overcome with so much "I'm imperfect and broken" from repeated failures and not meeting standards that I can start to wallow in ick, and I hate myself for it. I am very ashamed of it and try and hide it from everyone as much as I can. I crack (and do so more on forums than elsewhere). I really detest becoming like something that I do not like in others. In a way, it invalidates my wanting to bonk people on the head for it because I do it sometimes.
    In other words, the difference between Being Someone (4) and Doing Something (1). Comfort with "messy" emotions and wanting to control and quell them.
    The only way out is through. The faster you're in, the better.

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