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  1. #51
    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I'm not sure that many people are self-aware enough to always distinguish between what appeals to them & how they really are. For this reason, people mistype to begin with. I've mentioned before that I think some ESFJ mistype as ENFP partly because the ENFP is a modern ideal for a woman, a romantic one; there's either poor grasp of typology and/or poor grasp of self going on.

    I really think your #2 is just someone not using typology well. It doesn't necessarily indicate they've typed themselves wrong.

    I really have that reaction to Amelie, who gets typed as INFJ by some, and who seems far more 9w1 than 4w5. But I heavily relate to that character. I don't believe this means I am mistyped. I might say something akin to "she's like me, but in movie character form", but if I did a deeper analysis, then I'd easily begin to point out where my envy is glaring & it's not apparent in that character.

    But Amelie's extremely withdrawn, a daydreamer, with a sneaky vengeance born out of empathy - this would resonate with quite a few introverts, probably. Even some ISFPs want to claim her.

    I think Clementine is ExFP enough that any ExFP might relate somewhat to her. She's not just carefree, but also dramatic, self-indulgent & defiant. That could be an sx 4, although I agree the whole character does not fit 4, but 7.
    The built in 7ish-ness in ENFPs you note might also just be that 7 profiles can be Ne heavy. 4 profiles are often Fi heavy though, but not all 4s are Fi-dom. So is this the matter of the nature of the fixation or just profiles often based on how a person of a type typically appears?

    I suppose my main point is that who we relate to in the movies doesn't necessarily indicate our type.
    Although I'm not disagreeing that some ENFPs who type as 4 may not be mistyped as 7. That's supposedly a common mistyping according to the "experts" out there too.
    OA, I'll be honest with you and say that I get the sense...from your initial post as well as this more recent response I've quoted...that you were looking for some amusement last night in the form of argument/debate...or perhaps there's some unknown element in what I've said that bothers you (I sometimes think just anyone talking about INFP e4 bothers you tbh)...and so you're challenging me merely to challenge. <-Which normally I welcome. Seriously, I will play 'devil's advocate' in my own mind just to solidify my understanding of things. But you aren't really functioning as such and so I'm left with no comprehension of what your aim is here.

    What is it that you're wanting me to submit/surrender to? The reason I'm asking this...the reason I'm saying you're merely challenging to challenge is because you're taking an argumentative stance...and yet not entirely disagreeing with me either...which may in fact be because you sense it would be foolish to do so.

    You indicate that your main point is "who we relate to in the movies doesn't necessarily indicate our type." Which good to know and thank you for that. Now, as would be expected, this particular comment would probably have more of an impact on me if what I was expressing was the opposite...as in "If you relate to a movie character...find out what that movie character's type is... because their type will be your type"...but that's not what I'm saying. And while I can certainly appreciate your input...I'm left with nothing that accounts for your critical tone. Like I just said...I think something may have irritated you on some level and this is the sole reason you are countering me...and in this way it feels unnecessary to restate this all for the sake of "understanding" but let's have at it...

    My statements here are 100% Clementine specific. They begin and end with Clementine. There's absolutely no need to bring up Amelie...or any other character that is complex, multi-faceted and/or mute (which in my mind opens the door to far more subjective type interpretation and identification) because they don't apply here. There's absolutely no need to bring up other characters that are generally understood to be e7 either. Why? Because most characters on the "silver screen"...even the "commonly understood as e7" ones...are actually characters and not caricatures… which allows for doubt and again, a good deal of subjective interpretation.

    Now here's the crazy thing I'm doing... I'm taking the 2-dimensional, personification of the general e7 description known as the character 'Clementine'...and using her to make what was for me an amusing statement on the fact that so many e7s mistype as e4s (<-the fact you're challenging this is made more confusing when I consider how I've heard you allude to this same phenomenon many times. I thought you of all members would be in agreement.) So in an effort to summarize: I believe ExFPs can be 4w3s. I also believe ExFPs can identify with the character of Clementine and still be 4w3s. Now here's where things start to fall apart for me... Once an individual insists that the character of Clementine is an e4...right then and there I will have lost a substantial amount of faith in that individual's grasp of enneagram theory. Based solely on the nature of Clementine...I now no longer trust the person's skillz outright. But if in addition to the previous claim that same individual states that they are an ENFP 4w3...and proceeds to use as their primary evidence their significant identification with the character for why she's obviously enneagram 4... well, now everything changes as the odds of who's "right and wrong" ("understanding and not understanding enneagram theory") have shifted to the other side.

    Enneagram is not a science...but keeping track of probability...as new variables are introduced...is. ^When I put together everything I know about Clementine and common ENFP e7 mistypes...I believe the odds are on the side of "this individual is a mistyped e7."

  2. #52
    brainheart
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    I relate more to Joel than Clementine, for what it's worth. Not enough to say oh he's totally me, but more than I do to Clementine.

    My God @Starry, @OrangeAppled and @Animal, you guys write some long ass posts.

  3. #53
    Blood of the Exile Animal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post

    My God @Starry, @OrangeAppled and @Animal, you guys write some long ass posts.
    Says the Sp-dom

    Oh wait.. OA is an sp-dom.

    Hm.

    I have no excuse.
    Art is the blood of the Exile
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  4. #54
    brainheart
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    Quote Originally Posted by Animal View Post
    Yupyup, me too (think I said that in the last post)
    Did you? I might as well be honest; I have a hard time reading your entire posts- particularly if they aren't directed at me. As I said, they is long. (Went back and found it... Ah yes, so you did )

    What e-type would you give him?
    Well I'm pretty sure Charlie Kaufman (screenplay writer) is a 4w5. I could see Joel being one as well. I think 4 and 7 is a common movie (as well as real life) pairing. And then the whole basic premise of the film: she impulsively erases her memories of him because they are too painful; he's traumatized by the idea of them going away, because what is a four without the memory of treasured loves lost?

  5. #55
    Blood of the Exile Animal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    Did you? I might as well be honest; I have a hard time reading your entire posts- particularly if they aren't directed at me. As I said, they is long. (Went back and found it... Ah yes, so you did )
    Haha can't blame you. Also I'm busy during the day, and often write rambly posts late at night when I'm exhausted. I should probably not do that, so my posts are actually legible.

    Well I'm pretty sure Charlie Kaufman (screenplay writer) is a 4w5. I could see Joel being one as well. I think 4 and 7 is a common movie (as well as real life) pairing. And then the whole basic premise of the film: she impulsively erases her memories of him because they are too painful; he's traumatized by the idea of them going away, because what is a four without the memory of treasured loves lost?
    Yeah. I was thinking 4 as well. The idea of losing the memories is traumatizing.

    It's funny because, before that movie came out, I had written in my diary a lot about this guy who I wished I could forget, but then who and what would I be? And I pontificated a lot about - if I had the chance to forget him entirely, "unmeet him" - would I take it? It was a conundrum because I couldn't get over him. When that movie came out my feelings were still the same- that "peace of mind" is not worth the loss of the memories. I'd rather be miserable about my memories, than let go of them. In many ways, my imagination and memories are more real to me than reality, as in "here and now."
    Art is the blood of the Exile
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  6. #56
    brainheart
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    As far as Kurt goes, @Starry, I have a hard time believing sx/sp because of what he says in this interview, at 1:40- especially if he's a four:



    I think it's unusual for a sx dom to refer to their romantic partner as a 'best friend'. I could actually see him being a so/sx 4w5, for more reasons than this- however, I think so/sx types can often think of their love interest as their best friend. Yes, they are more, but it's a necessary part of the picture. Also, his swings between limelight and total isolation in his home seems like social four.


    @Animal, thanks for being cool about my comment.

    Yes. I can at times want to get rid of the pain of past love trauma, but then when it starts to fade I relive it in my head because I don't really want to lose it. It's part of my identity, and it's part of my inspiration when it comes to creating. And I'd say that's the whole premise of the movie.

  7. #57
    Blood of the Exile Animal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    @Animal, thanks for being cool about my comment.
    Oh I am always "cool" about comments about myself that I perceive as true. It's when I feel I'm "misunderstood" or have failed to communicate correctly, that the rants spill forth. I know I'm long-winded. I hate it about myself. But I am aware of it. And I actually appreciate the honest reminder. It keeps me focused on improving if that makes sense.


    Yes. I can at times want to get rid of the pain of past love trauma, but then when it starts to fade I relive it in my head because I don't really want to lose it. It's part of my identity, and it's part of my inspiration when it comes to creating. And I'd say that's the whole premise of the movie.
    Yes. Exactly. It was funny to me becuase I'd had that very debate with myself in my own diary.

    Clementine erasing her memories on a whim is very 7ish…. I don't know how anyone can type her as core 4. So much of her character for better or worse is just SOOOO quintessential 7.
    Art is the blood of the Exile
    4w3 6w7 8w9 ~ Sx/Sp ~ ISTP ~ LSI-Se

  8. #58
    Temporal Mechanic. Lexicon's Avatar
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    I keep reading this thread as, "Seven year-olds fear getting old."

    And then I think.. stupid children, fuck you.
    03/23 06:06:58 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:06:59 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:21:34 Nancynobullets: LEXXX *sacrifices a first born*
    03/23 06:21:53 Nancynobullets: We summon yooouuu
    03/23 06:29:07 Lexicon: I was sleeping!



    04/25 04:20:35 Patches: Don't listen to lex. She wants to birth a litter of kittens. She doesnt get to decide whats creepy

    02/16 23:49:38 ygolo: Lex is afk
    02/16 23:49:45 Cimarron: she's doing drugs with Jack

    03/05 19:27:41 Time: You can't make chat morbid. Lex does it naturally.

  9. #59
    untitled Chanaynay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lexicon View Post
    I keep reading this thread as, "Seven year-olds fear getting old."

    And then I think.. stupid children, fuck you.
    Still applies to E7s.
    7w6 - 2w3 - 8w7 sx/so


  10. #60
    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    As far as Kurt goes, @Starry, I have a hard time believing sx/sp because of what he says in this interview, at 1:40- especially if he's a four:



    I think it's unusual for a sx dom to refer to their romantic partner as a 'best friend'. I could actually see him being a so/sx 4w5, for more reasons than this- however, I think so/sx types can often think of their love interest as their best friend. Yes, they are more, but it's a necessary part of the picture. Also, his swings between limelight and total isolation in his home seems like social four.

    Oh wow brainheart really? Okay, let me back-up a step...
    When I slap the sx/sp label down on Cobain...that doesn't originate from me. All over the internet you will find personality related debates going on in his name. The primary debate is between 4w5 and 5w4...but some of these debates are with regards to his MBTI as well. IOW, and to a lesser extent, some people battle it out between INFP, ISFP...and even INTP.

    The only thing that people appear to agree on is sx/sp for him. From the professional enneagram sites to the informal/obscure...you will see sx/sp. And after consideration I absolutely agree.

    It's funny because I watched the video prior to reading what you wrote directly below... and the whole time I was thinking "uh huh, uh huh...okay...this all sounds sx/sp to me so wait what...?" haha.

    The fact he was saying that he and Courtney (another sx dom)...wanted to be with each other all the time...that's basically the cornerstone of sexual dominance. You are merged and you do not wish to unmerge. I think this is why...in part... I prefer sx doms as romantic partners because I'm not left wanting...and this part of me is not misunderstood. The fact he called Courtney his best friend is total sx/sp. The way I see it is...I ain't becoming emotionally, spiritually, physically, mentally attached...at the "psycho" levels of attachment I attach at haha...if the person isn't first and foremost my best friend (that I have sex with.) I very much relate to what he said and continue to see him as a sx/sp.

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