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  1. #31
    untitled Chanaynay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    @Beyonce I just need to tell you because you know I won't be able to keep it inside...

    My ENFJ Mom just randomly doesn't like Beyonce. Telling her Oprah really likes Beyonce hasn't worked. Now the air is clear phew.
    It's okay, I'll be able to handle your mom's wrong opinion.
    7w6 - 2w3 - 8w7 sx/so


  2. #32
    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beyonce View Post
    It's okay, I'll be able to handle your mom's wrong opinion.
    Omg I know! (randomly not liking Beyonce...does that even make sense?) Anyway I appreciate you sharing this burden with me and my entire family.

  3. #33
    brainheart
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    I don't even know how it would be possible to see her as anything other than a 7. I mean, I remain undecided as to whether she is an ENFP or ESFP... there are specific features of her that stand-out to me as being either/or...(I actually lean ESFP) But as for e7 omg. I would love for you to connect me with posts or people that argue she is a 4. It would just be interesting for me to see. In my mind she is one of the most obscenely e7 characters...ever.
    I could only find one right now, but I've definitely read others from ENFP 4w3s who so-totally identify with her.

    http://personalitycafe.com/type-4-fo...ml#post1701743

    ^^We were just talking about this.
    Who's 'we'?

  4. #34
    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    I could only find one right now, but I've definitely read others from ENFP 4w3s who so-totally identify with her.

    Now when you say ENFP 4w3s above are you referring to:

    a.) Unicorns
    b.) actual ENFP 4w3s
    c.) Elves
    d.) Sasquatches

    or

    e.) actual ENFP 7s that merely believe they are *way too deep and intellectual and self-aware* to be a 7 and so they mistype as 4w3s


    ^I realize most people may attribute this 'Clementine phenomenon' to 'c.) Elves'... but my gut is telling me e.) might be involved somehow... that e.) might unlock the mystery for as to why all these 4s relate to such a quintessential e7 character.

    Thank you for the link brainheart I'll check it out.



    Who's 'we'?

    I'm not sure if you know them... they're a couple of mean bitches that go by the user names of 'brainheart' and 'Starry' have you heard of them?

    haha no, we were talking about the feeling of being pulled-under...the sensation that your 4 is stuck in heavy, knee-deep, emotional mud/quicksand...and you might get stuck too...or possibly sucked into 'the vortex of the forever oh noes'... do you remember that conversation we had?

    ----------


    I don't remember all of what you were discussing/considering in your OMFG I'm a sp 4w5 thread... But I watched this video the other day and just thought I'd pass it along...

    I had originally searched youtube for a video of this song (Something in the Way) because I wanted to be clever and attach it in Ginkgo's Vegetarianism thread. This is because one of my favorite lines/lyric of all time is "It's okay to eat fish 'cause they don't have any feelings."

    ^I've thought about how a lyric like this could separate actual NFPs...from the NFP mistypes. I've seen this a few times before... an individual defending an NFP typing... and in doing so... appearing to communicate in a more loose and whimsical way...while seemingly quadrupling the number of whispy, nonsensical, fragmented sentences they make use of. But this to me generally stands as evidence against NFP. iow, contrary to popular opinion, when an actual NFP goes to make a point...they aren't going to say a million (quirky) things in an effort to convey one idea. An actual NFP is going to pack a million ideas into a single phrase. This is how I feel about this lyric.





    I'm attaching this here though as opposed to there because of what happens at 3.45


    I don't know whether Cobain is a 4w5 or 5w4. Riso and Hudson put him at 5w4...other sources insist on 4w5. I have always leaned 5w4 but it's confusing. Like in this clip...he is onstage...reading some sort of book...while some other musicians are setting-up...and I wonder...was he 'casually' reading as part of a 'chill' image he was living-out...or was he actually attempting to escape/detach/remove himself from an overwhelming situation?

    He was undoubtedly sx/sp though...and at 3.45...he questions and was preparing to go off on an audience member until he discovers he has heard them wrong. It's subtle...and I imagine most people viewing this incident wouldn't think much of it...but NFP to NFP...I think you will know just how intense that was...just how offended he was if only for a moment. That to me is the 4 + 5 + sx/sp anger people have been mentioning. He would have gone off on an audience member during a live, MTV performance had things gone differently...and there's something just stunning to me about that.

  5. #35
    Blood of the Exile Animal's Avatar
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    @<a href="http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/member.php?u=10082" target="_blank">Starry</a> @<a href="http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/member.php?u=7140" target="_blank">brainheart</a>

    I think a lot of women can identify with Clementine regardless of their e-type, because she has this "fucked up girl looking for peace of mind" thing. But as I said a few posts back, for me at least, I would not be that confident about it, at least inwardly. If I like a guy "the fantasy of being rejected leads to the behavior that gets me rejected." To express myself as clearly as she did I would have to know the guy really well. When she says that thing about , "I'll get bored and leave - because that's what happens with me" - I would never say that. I want something that lasts forever and it's not about getting "bored" but rather, that someone isn't the ideal, they don't see me or accept me, or something just doesn't work.

    I could see myself treating a guy like she treated Joel in the library, if I wasn't really into him. But not if I really liked him. I'd be too self conscious and worried about rejection.

    I think many people could identify with her TO A POINT, but if they identify with this outward confidence, getting bored, constantly changing hair color, all of the underlying behaviors in a deep way as @<a href="http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/member.php?u=10082" target="_blank">Starry</a> did, they are more likely to be a core 7; or maybe they don't understand the difference between feeling like you're different and you can't hold a relationship and you deserve XYZ, and expressing it outwardly with unshakable confidence. 4s can be confident but there's a whole process of looking inward, digging etc which I don't see as much with Clementine.


    .. I think Jeff Martin (singer) is definitely a 4w5 SX.




    I could see Kurt Cobain as a 4w5 maybes
    Art is the blood of the Exile
    4w3 6w7 8w9 ~ Sx/Sp ~ ISTP ~ LSI-Se

  6. #36
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    I can't wait till I'm old free morphine can be an asshole to people and they'll be like awww she's old and senile she doesn't know better. Plus racing wheel chairs down the a
    Hall
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  7. #37
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    Is one of sevens biggest fears getting old?
    It's not a direct fear for me, but, of the most prominent insecurities within me, it does tie into it.

    My most prominent insecurities:

    - reaching a point where curiosities cannot be chased to its edges, due to limitations (like others have said)
    - not having enough time to do, learn, be, experience, all the things that I want to experience
    - not being able to continue to live life to the fullest
    - fear of experiencing loss, and the subsequent inability to deal with the grief and pain (as I get older, accumulate more relationships, love more people, I will lose more of those that I love). I will have bouts of irrational fears, sometimes, waking myself up from dreaming, of a loved one dying. Usually happens when I'm not engaged with something, and my mind has time to wander into the deep, dark places that I try to avoid peeking into too often. And, I'll go through the emotions, of grief, as if the person really did die. It's exhausting, emotionally so. Thankfully, it doesn't happen often, but I've noticed that as I get older, it is more of a thing I think about than ever having visited this train of thought when I was younger.

    There's this sense of urgency, that the sand is running down, every day, and there's nothing I can do to stop it, pause time. It is greatly distressing, when I ponder on it too deeply.

  8. #38
    untitled Chanaynay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    There's this sense of urgency, that the sand is running down, every day, and there's nothing I can do to stop it, pause time. It is greatly distressing, when I ponder on it too deeply.
    This is my experience as well and I think this is pretty much the answer IMO.
    7w6 - 2w3 - 8w7 sx/so


  9. #39
    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Animal View Post
    @<a href="http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/member.php?u=10082" target="_blank">Starry</a> @<a href="http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/member.php?u=7140" target="_blank">brainheart</a>

    I think a lot of women can identify with Clementine regardless of their e-type, because she has this "fucked up girl looking for peace of mind" thing. But as I said a few posts back, for me at least, I would not be that confident about it, at least inwardly. If I like a guy "the fantasy of being rejected leads to the behavior that gets me rejected." To express myself as clearly as she did I would have to know the guy really well. When she says that thing about , "I'll get bored and leave - because that's what happens with me" - I would never say that. I want something that lasts forever and it's not about getting "bored" but rather, that someone isn't the ideal, they don't see me or accept me, or something just doesn't work.
    I think you know this but just in case I'm wrong here... My comment wasn't directed towards you or any specific individual that identifies as an ENFP 4. I'm very vocal about the fact that I 100% believe most ENFP 4s are mistyped 7s that are getting caught-up and confused by the descriptions...by the stereotypical expression of 7 and subsequently reject it on the basis of being intellectual/emo/deep.

    I've put off responding to your longer post in this thread...I've wavered and remain undecided as to how much I want to reveal of myself in a space anyone in the universe could potentially access (I need to figure out blogs and privacy settings. Actually, I need someone else to figure out blogs and privacy settings and explain it to me in easy to follow steps - let's be realistic Starry haha.) I'd have to give it another read but feel it's safe to tell you that there's nothing I can remember from your response that seemed foreign to me.

    Had I known how fascinated people would be by this "even my pain was a distraction from my pain" comment...shit I would have said it sooner (omg think Starry!) <-but this is the key to all the mistypes. This is how so many ENFP 4s are born. e7 descriptions fail us because this distinction is never made... that it is not necessary for an e7 to flee "all pain." Most do...most will not entertain pain at all... but would this even be possible for an NF? Can a hardcore Feeler truly reject outright one of Life's most beautiful, compelling, inspiring of emotions as pain? The only 'requirement' for 7 is that you distract yourself from your pain. And an amazingly effective way of going about this is by using other pains to keep you from focusing on your deepest hurts. This is the common method of the majority of those "ENFP 4s."

    They have discovered a way to 'have their cake and eat it too.' They have discovered a way they can fully embrace NF in all its glory...and hide from themselves how distracted...how superficial they truly are from...who they truly are. It's genius really...and a sign of someone that is almost inescapably bound to the 'sickness of 7'...which is why I'm so vocal about it.

    ^^Do I think this is you? Oh, I think the chances here are great...but I don't know yet. Many of the tell-tale signs seem to be in place but I haven't had an opportunity to put much thought towards it. I do believe in ENFP 4w3s. I just think they are incredibly rare.



    I think many people could identify with her TO A POINT, but if they identify with this outward confidence, getting bored, constantly changing hair color, all of the underlying behaviors in a deep way as @<a href="http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/member.php?u=10082" target="_blank">Starry</a> did, they are more likely to be a core 7; or maybe they don't understand the difference between feeling like you're different and you can't hold a relationship and you deserve XYZ, and expressing it outwardly with unshakable confidence. 4s can be confident but there's a whole process of looking inward, digging etc which I don't see as much with Clementine.

    When I take a look at all the women around me...it's difficult for me to imagine a lot of women relating to Clementine. There are so many social/public *fronts/personalities* that females can take on and be rewarded for...and I see *Clementine* being at the bottom of that list if on the list at all. She dresses like a slob...provides no service to anyone...does not function as an object of sexual fantasy even (which to this day is a powerful, heavily rewarded social role women can fill if they got what it takes)...

    I want to quickly insert here that Clementine is a very 2 dimensional character...purposely exaggerated to sorta get the points this story is attempting to make (on the topic of relationships) across...and in this way it's very difficult for me to relate to her... But I'm a thousand times more like her than any female I know and I do not see a lot of females relating to me. But maybe you're right and I'm just completely missing something here.

  10. #40
    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beyonce View Post
    This is my experience as well and I think this is pretty much the answer IMO.
    Just caught those last lines as well and relate entirely...

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