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Thread: 9w8s and 8w9s

  1. #11
    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
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    Just from what little I've gathered, it seems that a 9 who had a "spark" of "go-getter" in him or her would need just enough 8 aggression to push them into doing what needs to be done. Or maybe they would be like Thomas Jefferson once said, in matters of style (temporary or passing trends) go with the stream, but in matters of principle (eternal values or the big picture) stand like a rock (mountain). Maybe a 9w8 lives by the motto of "pick your battles," if it's something that won't matter in two months, let it go. If it's something that will make a long term difference, open a can of Whoopass!

    I can see that in me. Maybe there's just enough 8 to keep a fire lit under my tail and make people wonder how a laid back, sweet, easy-going southern gal can be so full of fire beneath the surface. Like I said though, ennegrams are only just now beginning to make sense to me.

    One guy told me I couldn't be a nine because I'm creative. I thought that was malarkey. I imagine that ANY type can have a spark of creativity in their own way.
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14

  2. #12
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    Second - If you do, has it ever seemed strange to you that 8 and 9 are next to each other? They seem so different to me. 8 seems to be the most aggressive of the types and 9 seems to be the most diplomatic or "nice". When I think of a 9w8 or 8w9, it seems like an odd pairing.
    I can totally see the push/pull in the people I know who are either 9w8 or 8w9. My sister is almost certainly 9w8- and it may be all the bullying from her I experienced growing up (she's older), but both influences are definitely there. And I have a rather close friend who is either 9w8 or 8w9- it's so close that I can't even tell. It's hard to explain, but it seems like two different sides of the same coin (much like e4 and e5 seem to me).

    On the other hand, my son is 9w1 and I don't see anything resembling 8 in him. Same with my dad. It's weird, it's like a totally different flavor of e9- in fact an e9 with a balanced wing seems stranger to me than an e9 with w8.
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

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  3. #13
    Senior Member statuesquechica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ene View Post
    Just from what little I've gathered, it seems that a 9 who had a "spark" of "go-getter" in him or her would need just enough 8 aggression to push them into doing what needs to be done. Or maybe they would be like Thomas Jefferson once said, in matters of style (temporary or passing trends) go with the stream, but in matters of principle (eternal values or the big picture) stand like a rock (mountain). Maybe a 9w8 lives by the motto of "pick your battles," if it's something that won't matter in two months, let it go. If it's something that will make a long term difference, open a can of Whoopass!
    I identify with this interpretation a great deal. I even find myself using the phrase "pick your battles" both personally and professionally...I think it is the essence of the 9w8. The comparison of the flow of the stream vs. the persistence of the rock is very apt as well...I experience both and use both in my language. I think the combination results in an atypical e9 and makes it all the harder to recognize.

    I do like the visual of the Enneagram being a circular spectrum where so many different flavors of an e9 (or any type) can be identified. I don't find it strange that the 9 is between the 8 and the 1. It does contribute to the push/pull dynamic that has been discussed already where there is the constant battle against inertia. I think the 8 wing causes me to be more confrontational, but out of a sense of strength rather than control and this results in me probably appearing more intense. I can become angry (rather than use other euphemisms like frustration/upset) but pretty quickly defuse...but only about things that really matter to me.

    I am really working on accepting my anger and calling it that...learning about the 8wing characteristics is helping me to be more honest with myself.
    I've looked at life from both sides now
    From up and down and still somehow
    It's life's illusions I recall
    I really don't know life at all

    Joni Mitchell

  4. #14
    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by statuesquechica View Post
    I identify with this interpretation a great deal. I even find myself using the phrase "pick your battles" both personally and professionally...I think it is the essence of the 9w8. The comparison of the flow of the stream vs. the persistence of the rock is very apt as well...I experience both and use both in my language. I think the combination results in an atypical e9 and makes it all the harder to recognize.

    I do like the visual of the Enneagram being a circular spectrum where so many different flavors of an e9 (or any type) can be identified. I don't find it strange that the 9 is between the 8 and the 1. It does contribute to the push/pull dynamic that has been discussed already where there is the constant battle against inertia. I think the 8 wing causes me to be more confrontational, but out of a sense of strength rather than control and this results in me probably appearing more intense. I can become angry (rather than use other euphemisms like frustration/upset) but pretty quickly defuse...but only about things that really matter to me.

    I am really working on accepting my anger and calling it that...learning about the 8wing characteristics is helping me to be more honest with myself.
    So glad you shared this! I don't become "upset" either. I get angry and when I do, I get determined and in rare instances, especially when I was a kid, I would go stone cold silent and then physically attack. I've always been quick, strong and agile. So, people would start to freak out when I gave them "the glare" and other kids knew...run. Banner is about to change into Hulk! It only happened maybe three times in twenty years.
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14

  5. #15
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Well I think I'm 9w1, but I'm not always diplomatic and nice. I'm more concerned with whatever agenda I have at the time and being right. Maybe that's the 1. I fight for justice even if it's just my right to do what I want.

    It does seem strange to me that the two are next to each other, but I could see how they might be connected; 9 is a number of completion, so after mastering the lessons of 8 and learning how to balance power one can find inner peace. And from a place of inner peace comes reform (1). You sometimes need to fight for peace (or balance, or harmony), which is how 8 could work with 9. Kind of paradoxical, but balance comes through action as well as receptivity.

    I get mad a lot; might that mean I have balanced wings? I am very averse to expressing it physically though. I intellectualize my emotions. And oddly for a 9 anger is the emotion other than happiness I am most comfortable with.

    Or maybe I'm not a 9. Who knows. I probably am because I don't know.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sanjuro View Post
    The 9 is caught between the "goodness" of 1, and the "badness" of 8. They don't know whether to agree or disagree, to obey or disobey, indulge physical desires or deny physical desires, etc. On one side there's the impulse to be self-interested, on the other there's the impulse to make the world more perfect. How do you deal with all that push-pull other than become numb and stubborn? Outwardly comply, but inwardly follow your own way. 9s can be both callous to others, like 8s, and concerned with maintaining the "right" way of doing things, like 1s.
    This describes my experience well.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Sanjuro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    Well I think I'm 9w1, but I'm not always diplomatic and nice. I'm more concerned with whatever agenda I have at the time and being right. Maybe that's the 1. I fight for justice even if it's just my right to do what I want.

    ...

    This describes my experience well.
    Thanks. Just wanna add that my mom's a 9w1 as well...she's not always diplomatic and nice, either. Actually, she sees herself as pragmatic, sensible, and a bit feisty--which she is when you cross the "line". She's always quietly done her own thing and isn't really "nicey-nice"--she's rather resentful, strict, and proper, and a bit standoffish (I thought she could be a 1w9 at first). She also sees herself as being incredibly passive till, again, you cross the line.

  7. #17
    Junior Member King Temur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    I have always thought of our individual placement on the Enneagram as being at some point on the circle - rarely on an exact number but somewhere in-between two numbers, which gives rise to the wings. Two questions.

    First - Do you agree with this?

    Second - If you do, has it ever seemed strange to you that 8 and 9 are next to each other? They seem so different to me. 8 seems to be the most aggressive of the types and 9 seems to be the most diplomatic or "nice". When I think of a 9w8 or 8w9, it seems like an odd pairing.
    I think the enneagram is not an end-all-be-all system as you seem to be making it out to be.

    It comes close to identifying some key repetitive archetypes that occur in human nature. That being said -- I'm sure everyone is some blend on a spectrum rather than a pinpoint type -- so yes, I'd agree with your assertion.


    I can see how at first glance 8 and 9 being together seems ridiculous. But in action it actually comes together quite well. I think the 8w9 is called "The Bear" in some places, and this is a really good way of putting it. They tend to want to do their own thing, go their own way -- when they don't like something, rather than yelling and blasting like the stereotypical 8w7, they'll just leave.

    It's when they are crossed in their pathway that they tend to attack. So as you can see it's a nice blend of the two types and actually describes the personality quite well, in my opinion.

  8. #18
    Junior Member Yeah...Nope.'s Avatar
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    I'm a 9w8. And have gone through all these "anger", "pick your battles" and "stone cold silent then physically attack (as a child)" situations. Also removed a verbal sexually harassing teacher from my kid's school, screaming match with a rude drunk (yeah, low point in my life), put all my 5 siblings in place because of a stupid argument between some of them (they've only witness my rage maybe 3 times in their lifetime) and told off a handsy ex-boss. If at that moment we're not particularly healthy, woe on you...

    And my preferred show of anger is cold, calm and hissed. It's more effective in getting your point across.

  9. #19
    Member Tem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yeah...Nope. View Post
    I'm a 9w8. And have gone through all these "anger", "pick your battles" and "stone cold silent then physically attack (as a child)" situations. Also removed a verbal sexually harassing teacher from my kid's school, screaming match with a rude drunk (yeah, low point in my life), put all my 5 siblings in place because of a stupid argument between some of them (they've only witness my rage maybe 3 times in their lifetime) and told off a handsy ex-boss. If at that moment we're not particularly healthy, woe on you...

    And my preferred show of anger is cold, calm and hissed. It's more effective in getting your point across.
    +1.

    I do similar things -- particularly when I snap, people are often really surprised. I tend to go from my usual flat, neutral composure to filling up the entire room.
    In retrospect I know that deep down I regret the things I do to other people, but what runs through my mind is that they were dealt what they deserve -- and not even enough. It's never enough.

    Genuinely, I prefer for people to get the picture when I give them a dirty look -- I don't like getting involved nor getting angry.

    I identify with a lot of the type 9. I really like for people to be getting along, for people to be treated fairly and for nobody to feel left out or ostracized unless they've crossed the line. Innocent souls reach out to me I have a soft spot for them, I've always been the guy to include that person who is different in some way, probably because I can identify. I don't like to be disturbed, and I'm usually pretty content just doing my own thing and being with the people who I've grown to love.

  10. #20
    Member Tem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ene View Post
    I can see that in me. Maybe there's just enough 8 to keep a fire lit under my tail and make people wonder how a laid back, sweet, easy-going southern gal can be so full of fire beneath the surface.
    That's really sexy

    One guy told me I couldn't be a nine because I'm creative. I thought that was malarkey. I imagine that ANY type can have a spark of creativity in their own way.
    What a moron :p

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