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  1. #11
    Warflower Nijntje's Avatar
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    OOOooo @Kasper said everything i wish i had.

    especially this:

    If we do have a view though, then we will likely react one of three ways to someone with an opposing wish; we will with diplomacy share why we 'can understand their view but prefer our alternate view', will silently and stubbornly ignore them and do what we want regardless of their wishes, or (over) react with anger/defiance/strength either a version of strong moral conviction of a w1 or assertiveness of a w8 and show our disagreement.

    Terrible things happen to good people every day.
    Consequentially, I am not one of the good people.
    I am one of the terrible things.
    .



    Conclusion: Dinosaurs


  2. #12
    Diabolical Kasper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nijntje View Post
    Okay, so i'll sound stupid, what exactly *is* self forgetting?
    Damn Fi. I kinda think Fi + 9 may help limit self forgetting.

    Self forgetting is allowing ourselves to believe we don't have needs or opinions, to allow ourselves to 'not care' one way or another and ignoring that rising anger inside that tells us 'oops, you do care, you just don believe you matter enough to count'.

  3. #13
    Warflower Nijntje's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kasper View Post
    Damn Fi. I kinda think Fi + 9 may help limit self forgetting.

    Self forgetting is allowing ourselves to believe we don't have needs or opinions, to allow ourselves to 'not care' one way or another and ignoring that rising anger inside that tells us 'oops, you do care, you just don believe you matter enough to count'.
    Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Oh, no, my fi makes sure that if i care about something that angry little bubble of rage and belligerence comes up and i either esplode with opinion or sulk about how im right and they're wrong and i can't MAKE THEM BEND TO MY WILL. THE ASSHOLES.

    Terrible things happen to good people every day.
    Consequentially, I am not one of the good people.
    I am one of the terrible things.
    .



    Conclusion: Dinosaurs


  4. #14
    Diabolical Kasper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nijntje View Post
    Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Oh, no, my fi makes sure that if i care about something that angry little bubble of rage and belligerence comes up and i either esplode with opinion or sulk about how im right and they're wrong and i can't MAKE THEM BEND TO MY WILL. THE ASSHOLES.
    W1 + Fi is gloriously scary with epic judgy hidden-unknown-boundaries wrath <3

    Fe is all like, your needs matter, I sorry

  5. #15
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    My boyfriend is sp-first 9w1 and I'd say one of his primary characteristics is his independence and autonomy. As far as taking care of himself goes, he has that completely covered and will do what he has to for that. @Kasper already covered it pretty well but it doesn't really seem to have much to do with being self-forgetting, malleable, or unassuming. He's just pretty laid-back in general and he'll change the flow of his life to avoid conflict, notching his willful priorities down to accommodate the existence of an unpleasant situation. He rarely gets angry though he may harbor an intellectual resentment against a crappy system or hateful person. In general it seems from the outside like it's an energy thing for him. He'll express sentiments like why would I waste my energy on an unpleasant situation when I could opt for a pleasant one instead....

    So that's where I see the self-forgetfulness/malleability coming in. The willingness to be redirected by environment.

  6. #16
    Warflower Nijntje's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    My boyfriend is sp-first 9w1 and I'd say one of his primary characteristics is his independence and autonomy. As far as taking care of himself goes, he has that completely covered and will do what he has to for that. @Kasper already covered it pretty well but it doesn't really seem to have much to do with being self-forgetting, malleable, or unassuming. He's just pretty laid-back in general and he'll change the flow of his life to avoid conflict, notching his willful priorities down to accommodate the existence of an unpleasant situation. He rarely gets angry though he may harbor an intellectual resentment against a crappy system or hateful person. In general it seems from the outside like it's an energy thing for him. He'll express sentiments like why would I waste my energy on an unpleasant situation when I could opt for a pleasant one instead....
    ^^^^^ yes. All this, as an INFP 9w1 i'm pretty good at all of the above and

    Quote Originally Posted by Kasper View Post
    W1 + Fi is gloriously scary with epic judgy hidden-unknown-boundaries wrath <3

    Fe is all like, your needs matter, I sorry
    not for the first time am i SUPREMELY glad i have Fi. <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 even if, during outbursts, i come across more like a belligerent kitten than an adult.

    Terrible things happen to good people every day.
    Consequentially, I am not one of the good people.
    I am one of the terrible things.
    .



    Conclusion: Dinosaurs


  7. #17
    Diabolical Kasper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nijntje View Post
    not for the first time am i SUPREMELY glad i have Fi. <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 even if, during outbursts, i come across more like a belligerent kitten than an adult.
    Hehe, you make it sound cute, yet I'm sure it's not (well, completely) XD

    Fe can make the Fe type feel all warm and gooey in an OMG I'M CONNECTED TO ALL OF THE WORLD/UNIVERSE THIS IS BLISS kinda way when the feels are flowing so while I do have envy of what being as individualistic as a Fi type can be inherently, and the being less or unimpacted by others could be, I like being Fe over Fi well enough, although maybe it's just that I can intellectually understand Fi but I can't "get" it to know any better. Actually the most important element is I wouldn't trade my Ti for the world, subjective logic is the most awesome to have ever awesomed!

  8. #18
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kasper View Post
    Damn Fi. I kinda think Fi + 9 may help limit self forgetting.
    Self forgetting is allowing ourselves to believe we don't have needs or opinions, to allow ourselves to 'not care' one way or another and ignoring that rising anger inside that tells us 'oops, you do care, you just don believe you matter enough to count'.
    well put

    PS: @Starry
    see now why I don't type as a 9?
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
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  9. #19
    Senior Member Dannik's Avatar
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    i am extremely malleable and easily led in most situations-
    and also very stubborn and an intractable asshole in others.


    I think a key to ISTPs is our belief that:
    all things (all decisions and all situations) are contextual.
    and; in the absence of morality, it is easier to follow than lead.

    so despite having ferocious loyalty, i will always want to make my decisions based on the immediate strongest most relevant evidence.
    if there is no conflict, i will often hold back my thoughts/opinions until all other possibilities are heard - and then i will happily re-align my decisions with the closest proximal equivalent.
    in most social encounters i much prefer to defer.



    what do you mean by self-forgetfulness?
    i find i am always very aware of my self; my sense of my self is the most powerful and real and substantial thing in my life, it is a powerful constant.
    i find that my love for myself is the only thing that never fails me.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kasper View Post
    In the absence of an opinion a 9 will just go along, we will be unaware of our personal stance as we haven't considered or upon consideration found we really couldn't feel strongly one way or another, if someone else has a strong view we will go along with them because of our lack of conviction for or against and the impact of holy love on our desire to not be unacceptable to others means 'why not?', after all the 9 doesn't care so let's not close the door to any options, and let's also not create a situation where someone else's needs that seem to be important are dismissed, we hate it when the latter happens to us so do not enjoy doing it to others.

    Personally, I am highly malleable, yet I am also fiercely independent, this plays out by being forever open to views on 99% of life, things I haven't sat down and via my own experiences and learning come to a hard fast conclusion, I, like all 9s, can see and hold duel seemingly contradictory points of views open in my mind as valid possibilities so in a conversation if you hold a strong view and it contradicts what I have previously considered, I can genuinely see it as a possibility, however there are firm boundaries with me, I cannot be moved if I do not want to be, I will rely on no one to get what I want once I've made up my mind. I minimise my own needs in a self forgetting way, I am malleable and unassuming, I am also always autonomous despite my willingness to work with others and I am my own man who will not be changed because others want it. Often when a 9 goes along with others it's because they are uninvested, when we do not it's a sign we are present in the moment as we tend to know what we do not want easier than knowing what we do.
    i feel very much the same way.


    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    My boyfriend is sp-first 9w1 and I'd say one of his primary characteristics is his independence and autonomy. As far as taking care of himself goes, he has that completely covered and will do what he has to for that. @Kasper already covered it pretty well but it doesn't really seem to have much to do with being self-forgetting, malleable, or unassuming. He's just pretty laid-back in general and he'll change the flow of his life to avoid conflict, notching his willful priorities down to accommodate the existence of an unpleasant situation. He rarely gets angry though he may harbor an intellectual resentment against a crappy system or hateful person. In general it seems from the outside like it's an energy thing for him. He'll express sentiments like why would I waste my energy on an unpleasant situation when I could opt for a pleasant one instead....
    absolutely!, that strikes home.

  10. #20
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    @Dannik
    what do you mean by self-forgetfulness?
    i find i am always very aware of my self; my sense of my self is the most powerful and real and substantial thing in my life, it is a powerful constant.
    i find that my love for myself is the only thing that never fails me.
    ^this sounds 7 to me (shamelessly self indulgent, but in a good way)
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
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    Sunburst!
    "You are a gay version of Gambit" Speed Gavroche
    "I wish that I could be affected by any hate, but I can't, cuz I just get affected by the bank" Chamillionaire

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