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  1. #31
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    How about Freddie Mercury?
    6w7 or 7w6 (his vibe is too damn innocent to be 7w8)
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
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    Sunburst!
    "You are a gay version of Gambit" Speed Gavroche
    "I wish that I could be affected by any hate, but I can't, cuz I just get affected by the bank" Chamillionaire

  2. #32
    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post

    @Starry, I agree with the sx/sp 7w6 being similar to 4. I know a lot of the time I feel a strong connection to the sexual 7- impulsive, indulgent, restlessly seeking, scattered on the bad days, excited and ready to move on to something better on the good ones. I know the ocean moonshine description says sx/sp 4 has a seven-like quality and it is for sure the case for me. I would guess the difference would be in the orientation to suffering. The four believes it can't escape it while the seven believes it can. (That's my guess anyway? Tell me if I'm wrong.) Hence Naranjo's sexual seven with the rose colored glasses. Meanwhile the sexual four wears black-bile colored glasses...
    brainheart - thank you so much for this information as I had no idea. I mean, I've read this vague 'will often act like 4s' reference made with regards to sexual 7s quite a few times now (yes, should be limited 7w6 sx/sp)...and yet I've never encountered a meaningful explanation as to why. Nor did it occur to me that this 'strange phenomenon' goes both ways as I've never seen a 7 reference for sexual 4s (probably should be limited to 4w5 sx/sp.)

    ^^So there's something really going on here haha. I mean, when I've used the word 'connection' when speaking about this *thing* I've often questioned it as if I was getting ahead of myself. It's one thing to resemble another type but the fact this goes both ways...weakening (for 7s) any case that might put the blame entirely on 7 possessing an e5 integration point... really says something to me. And now I want to understand what exactly is going on haha. So...7w6 sx/sp can become *emo* and despairing and write some damn good poetry if I do say so myself... while 4w5 sx/sp can get manic and reckless and people can't get enough of them at the party... but what is actually happening? haha. fyi - I wear black-bile glasses now ever since my rose-colored ones shattered. <-I have always considered myself to be a deep thinking, highly sensitive, highly aware individual with powerful instincts until I recognized how much of life I was embellishing with happy, it's-all-going-to-be-okay fantasy (survival strategy I imagine)... And I believe I will continue to wear them until I can learn how to wear my rose-colored ones without forgetting they're on.

    I agree with you with regards to the suffering. What do you think is going on though? If you have an opinion I'd love to hear it.

  3. #33
    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Qwan View Post
    I see tons and tons of social in me, a medium amount of Sexual, and just barely a little Self-Pres...

    @Starry
    @five sounds

    whoops...sorry MQ. I have been thinking about this because you had asked me about instinctual variant in another thread... And I had started a response and then got stuck.

    Basically, I think you've got it right. I think you are most likely so/sp. My only hesitation is once you get away from your present situation and really start coming into your own...will your behavior and preferences alter as you make new discoveries about yourself? I mean, you've been in a situation where it appears you couldn't really make your own decisions...and focus on what is important to you... <-which may not be enough to hide ENFP and e7...but may be enough to conceal your variant idk.

    All I can really say is that you vibe like a social dom...but what does that really tell you? Nothing much if anything at all. If you are relating to social dominance...I say go with it until Life tells you otherwise.

  4. #34
    The Dark Lord The Wailing Specter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    whoops...sorry MQ. I have been thinking about this because you had asked me about instinctual variant in another thread... And I had started a response and then got stuck.

    Basically, I think you've got it right. I think you are most likely so/sp. My only hesitation is once you get away from your present situation and really start coming into your own...will your behavior and preferences alter as you make new discoveries about yourself? I mean, you've been in a situation where it appears you couldn't really make your own decisions...and focus on what is important to you... <-which may not be enough to hide ENFP and e7...but may be enough to conceal your variant idk.

    All I can really say is that you vibe like a social dom...but what does that really tell you? Nothing much if anything at all. If you are relating to social dominance...I say go with it until Life tells you otherwise.
    ok
    Enneagram: 6w7 (phobic) > 2w1 > 9w1
    Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
    Holland Code: AIS
    Date of Birth: March 15, 1996
    Gender: Male
    Political Stance: Libertarian Liberal (Arizona School/Strong BHL)
    ATHEIST UNITARIAN UNIVERSALIST HUMANIST
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    SCIENCE ENTHUSIAST


    I say this as a reminder to myself, but this goes for everyone:

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    -Magic Qwan

  5. #35
    brainheart
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    brainheart - thank you so much for this information as I had no idea. I mean, I've read this vague 'will often act like 4s' reference made with regards to sexual 7s quite a few times now (yes, should be limited 7w6 sx/sp)...and yet I've never encountered a meaningful explanation as to why. Nor did it occur to me that this 'strange phenomenon' goes both ways as I've never seen a 7 reference for sexual 4s (probably should be limited to 4w5 sx/sp.)

    ^^So there's something really going on here haha. I mean, when I've used the word 'connection' when speaking about this *thing* I've often questioned it as if I was getting ahead of myself. It's one thing to resemble another type but the fact this goes both ways...weakening (for 7s) any case that might put the blame entirely on 7 possessing an e5 integration point... really says something to me. And now I want to understand what exactly is going on haha. So...7w6 sx/sp can become *emo* and despairing and write some damn good poetry if I do say so myself... while 4w5 sx/sp can get manic and reckless and people can't get enough of them at the party... but what is actually happening? haha. fyi - I wear black-bile glasses now ever since my rose-colored ones shattered. <-I have always considered myself to be a deep thinking, highly sensitive, highly aware individual with powerful instincts until I recognized how much of life I was embellishing with happy, it's-all-going-to-be-okay fantasy (survival strategy I imagine)... And I believe I will continue to wear them until I can learn how to wear my rose-colored ones without forgetting they're on.

    I agree with you with regards to the suffering. What do you think is going on though? If you have an opinion I'd love to hear it.
    cool I'm glad that was helpful to you

    Here's the ocean moonshine descriptions so you can see what I'm referring to (got them off personalitycafe):

    Sexual/Self-pres Four

    This is a very volatile type. They are driven to form connections but have very high demands of their partners. When their powerful fantasies don’t match reality, they become very restless. They take the fire and passion of the sexual instinct and turn it inward. This can cause both brooding and fiery outbursts. Dramatic mood swings are very likely with this type. This subtype of Four could be considered the most classic Four, because of the way they seem to embody the archetype of the tortured artist, although not all Fours of this subtype are artists. Stereotype aside, this subtype does tend to bring their emotions into focus more readily then the other subtypes of Four. What is under the surface with the self-pres/sexual is now bubbling to the surface. This subtype can resemble type Seven because of their drama, passion for experience and tendency to suffer from frustration when life seems dull. Like type Seven, they can seem to throw themselves into experience.

    When healthy, this subtype learns to balance the need for passion with the less obvious need for groundedness which can come from solid and focused relationships with others and with their creative outlets.
    Sexual/Self-pres Seven


    The energy of the sexual instinct is, in some ways, at odds with the type Seven fixation. The Seven’s focus is future oriented and outward, away from the inner world, while the sexual variant is instinctual and dwells on the inner self as far as relationships and identity are concerned. This combination can make for a Seven that can be Four-like in many ways. They can have a flamboyant style and be very moody and intense. In relationships, there is often a push-pull quality. They are very attracted to the falling in love part. The buzz and high of that is very stimulating to them, almost drug-like for them. Their problems come when that buzz wears off. They want to recreate it again and again, but they also have a way of becoming attached and sometimes very dependent on their romantic partners. On the down side, they can be very clingy but don’t want at the same time to lose their freedom. When unhealthy, they can be very selfish in these relationships, things become one-sided in a way that favors the interests of the Seven.

    The sexual/self-pres Seven’s addictive behavior with relationships can extend to other areas, like music, and performing in general. The rock star image and lifestyle can be attractive to the sexual Seven. Many rock stars are sexual Sevens the buzz they experience from music can be similar to what they experience in relationships. Creativity can also function as a release of frustration from the boredom.
    I agree that there's something about that line to five, for sure. I think a sx 4w3 might seem more flamboyant, but I think a sx 4w5 will have more of the mental monkey thing going on like a seven. I've found it interesting being on here because there are a number of sexual sevens on here that I really relate to, you being one of them. But I know I'm not a sexual seven.

    As far as what is happening, I think a lot of it is both are frustration types so it can play out in similar ways. There are certain enneagram experts who say that the connection lines of four are actually seven and one, and vice versa for seven, so that could be part of it as well. I think it's more likely that sexual types feel the frustration the most.

  6. #36
    Step into my office. Luv Deluxe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    ^^You're right badger.

    I mean, I actually didn't read Elfboy's descriptions...I only looked at the pictures haha. But if Elfboy is using the word 'brooding' for 7 sx... You are right and he is right.

    The 7 descriptions are way fucked-up in my opinion. Most of them have a 7w8 bias...but there are a few descriptions floating around that account for a certain anomaly...that I have only ever seen in the 7w6 sx...and yet it is always applied to all of 7 which I totally agree is complete bullshit. I don't fully understand why but 7w6 sx is very connected to 4 in some way...and I'm assuming 4w5 to be specific (as 7 is connected to 5.) And yes, 7w6 sx are known for fits of melancholy like 4s. Not to worry though because most 7w6 sx...are totally mistyped as 4s and 5s anyway.

    Elfboy should be able to link you to one of these descriptions... but yah. No way is 7w8 sx brooding.
    I've been uncertain of my wing for a long time; 7w6 always feels too soft/romantic, 7w8 too much of an asshole. Lately, I've begun to think I'm wingless. This idea that 7w6 sx individuals are mostly "broody" in a manner resembling 4s...well, if that's the case, chop off my 6-wing. I'll be a flightless bird.

    I'm quiet when I first meet people. I'm also casual and confident, but I suppose my initial reticence could be to blame for any suggestion that I'm a broody person. When it comes to the cultivation of negative emotions - which is exactly what I consider "brooding" to be - I don't do it. Sure, I'm not happy all the time, but I strive to be. If I'm feeling down, I want to flush it out of my system as quickly as possible.

    I'm an intensity junkie, but for intensely positive experiences. What volume of melancholy constitutes brooding in the case of a 7w6 sx-dom?
    AMERICAN TRASH
    Ni > Se > Fe > Ti
    7w6 cp
    so SX it hurts
    Sanguine/Choleric
    Chaotic Good

    ~ Gryffindor on the streets, Slytherin in the sheets ~

  7. #37
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    @Starry
    @Badger @AntiheroComplex

    tbh, I need to reevaluate Sexual 7s in general, so I'll probably rewrite the description at some point
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
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    Motivation: Dark Worker
    Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
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    Male Archtype: King/Lover
    Sunburst!
    "You are a gay version of Gambit" Speed Gavroche
    "I wish that I could be affected by any hate, but I can't, cuz I just get affected by the bank" Chamillionaire

  8. #38
    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AntiheroComplex View Post
    I've been uncertain of my wing for a long time; 7w6 always feels too soft/romantic, 7w8 too much of an asshole. Lately, I've begun to think I'm wingless. This idea that 7w6 sx individuals are mostly "broody" in a manner resembling 4s...well, if that's the case, chop off my 6-wing. I'll be a flightless bird.

    I'm quiet when I first meet people. I'm also casual and confident, but I suppose my initial reticence could be to blame for any suggestion that I'm a broody person. When it comes to the cultivation of negative emotions - which is exactly what I consider "brooding" to be - I don't do it. Sure, I'm not happy all the time, but I strive to be. If I'm feeling down, I want to flush it out of my system as quickly as possible.

    I'm an intensity junkie, but for intensely positive experiences. What volume of melancholy constitutes brooding in the case of a 7w6 sx-dom?
    ^^Why am I getting a 8w7 vibe from you here with what you wrote above? Has that ever been on the table for consideration (8w7...knowing you I'm sure it has.) Not that this means anything to anyone other than me...but the fact I've never even privately attempted to retype you in my mind...tells me how much faith I have in your knowledge, awareness, etc. I've enjoyed interacting with you before and this is the first time I've been hit with a 'hmmm' (and for some reason that registered as 8w7.) I don't know though. Maybe it's merely an inability to imagine how a 6 wing would be experienced by an INFJ sexual 7. And perhaps because I wouldn't have necessarily pegged you as a sx/sp either...I guess I've always thought you were sx/so.

    Still, I will say that I do not believe this *brooding* is an automatic to the 7w6 sx. I think that some sexual 7w6s trick themselves into believing they are addressing their pain but what they are truly doing is continuing to avoid their pain by getting wound-up in dramatic, romanticized, artful pains...like the human condition or love lost. I do not believe all sexual 7s (or 7w6 sx/sp) will do this though.

  9. #39
    Step into my office. Luv Deluxe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    ^^Why am I getting a 8w7 vibe from you here with what you wrote above? Has that ever been on the table for consideration (8w7...knowing you I'm sure it has.) Not that this means anything to anyone other than me...but the fact I've never even privately attempted to retype you in my mind...tells me how much faith I have in your knowledge, awareness, etc. I've enjoyed interacting with you before and this is the first time I've been hit with a 'hmmm' (and for some reason that registered as 8w7.) I don't know though. Maybe it's merely an inability to imagine how a 6 wing would be experienced by an INFJ sexual 7. And perhaps because I wouldn't have necessarily pegged you as a sx/sp either...I guess I've always thought you were sx/so.

    Still, I will say that I do not believe this *brooding* is an automatic to the 7w6 sx. I think that some sexual 7w6s trick themselves into believing they are addressing their pain but what they are truly doing is continuing to avoid their pain by getting wound-up in dramatic, romanticized, artful pains...like the human condition or love lost. I do not believe all sexual 7s (or 7w6 sx/sp) will do this though.
    I feel confident in my core type, but I think I may have phrased some of those queries in a fairly direct, demanding way - in which case I could see why you picked up an Eight vibe.

    (By the way, I very much appreciate your acceptance of the apparent typological abomination that is the INFJ 7. I understand the generalized reluctance that many people share in even entertaining the idea; for most, the solution seems to be, "INFJ 7? Yeah...that's not possible," because it's easier than merging the motivations and desires of a Seven with the cognitive processes of an INFJ. I get it - it's weird!)

    With regard to wing confusion, however, I have definitely had more trouble. Given my overall reading on Eight and Six, I have always tended to be more sympathetic toward the Eight perspective (scoring higher there as well on internet Enneagram tests, for whatever that's worth - not necessarily much). I briefly felt more at ease with the 7w6 label after my boyfriend identified as a 7w8. We're eerily similar in many ways, but I'm a little more playful and he's a little more screw you. (Just a little. He picks his battles well.) Might a counterphobic Six also seem aggressive under the right circumstances, in ways that would be reminiscent of the Eight?

    I'm curious to learn why you've thought sx/so would be a good fit - seriously, I'm interested (I don't mean to sound...interrogating). For a while, I was still sort of sussing out what the social instinct really meant, and was uncertain of where I stood with that drive in particular; I now feel more solid in my identification with sx/sp, but I'm always excited to learn more.

    I think I can identify with the "human condition" sort of broodiness. I'm intrigued by philosophy and psychology, I observe the world around me even when I don't mean to (it's an unconscious, internal thing), and it's a very natural inclination to ponder the resulting deep questions that arise. But I would be hesitant to attach a negative tone to this sort of contemplation, especially the negative flavor that "brooding" implies. Maybe you're referring to something different, something a little darker? I don't really relate to the romanticized lost love though. I once had a crush on a college classmate that lasted for two years. When it became apparent that nothing would happen with him, I sort of chose to force quit...and was over him in forty-eight hours. I don't like to think about past romances, as I generally find them too unpleasant and would rather move forward into more exciting, promising territory. Again, though - maybe I'm telling myself I'm dealing with the pain while not actually dealing with it.

    Thanks for responding!
    AMERICAN TRASH
    Ni > Se > Fe > Ti
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    so SX it hurts
    Sanguine/Choleric
    Chaotic Good

    ~ Gryffindor on the streets, Slytherin in the sheets ~

  10. #40
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AntiheroComplex View Post
    I've been uncertain of my wing for a long time; 7w6 always feels too soft/romantic, 7w8 too much of an asshole. Lately, I've begun to think I'm wingless. This idea that 7w6 sx individuals are mostly "broody" in a manner resembling 4s...well, if that's the case, chop off my 6-wing. I'll be a flightless bird.

    I'm quiet when I first meet people. I'm also casual and confident, but I suppose my initial reticence could be to blame for any suggestion that I'm a broody person. When it comes to the cultivation of negative emotions - which is exactly what I consider "brooding" to be - I don't do it. Sure, I'm not happy all the time, but I strive to be. If I'm feeling down, I want to flush it out of my system as quickly as possible.

    I'm an intensity junkie, but for intensely positive experiences. What volume of melancholy constitutes brooding in the case of a 7w6 sx-dom?
    i don't know that i would describe 7w6 as soft and romantic. i think there's a bit of that...maybe...but probably just a part experienced in their head all alone and not experienced by others. idk.

    also...this broody thing...i would very much doubt that's something experienced by others about us either. we may experience darker moments...moments of deep disappointment but i'm not so sure how others experience that.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
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