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Enneagram 7s and feeling trapped in relationships

Avocado

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[MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION]

Cool that you met the dalai lama!

I still use your dad's advice for some things, but I also try to cherish my pleasures and meanings now, and not worry about losing them someday...
 

Avocado

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[MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION]

Cool that you met the dalai lama!

I still use your dad's advice for some things, but I also try to cherish my pleasures and meanings now, and not worry about losing them someday...
 

Starry

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^^Holy Dalai Lama [MENTION=18694]Magic Qwan[/MENTION] ...

The fact the first *triple post* I've ever seen on this site involved an individual expressing to me that they occasionally take my father's advice... I'm actually having a slight panic attack right now...and may drive myself to the emergency room later for xanax and an oxygen tank. Please don't do that haha. I mean, the whole "who's gonna give a shit..." <-that's a good one. Anything else you see me quoting of my father's though...just...don't even read it.

 

HongDou

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Magic Qwan has connected with 5 while you are holding tight at 7 is the only difference I see.

Oooh, interesting observation. :thinking: Would you mind illustrating an example of this? I thought when Magic said he was more of a slave to his superego and was very critical of himself when he violated what he thought he ought to do it sounded very 1ish. Maybe it could be being social-dom and Fi, but I'm both of those things and I'm not like that at all. I let myself off too easy. :blush: Would it be a so/sp vs so/sx difference?

I do not see you creating any false images. And so yes, you are one of the disintegrated :wink:

Hmm? I get what you mean when you see that I'm holding tight at 7. Connecting with 5, while I acknowledge it as a step towards personal growth, also scares me because it feels like losing a part of myself and caving into all those people who constantly told me I need to focus myself and not be so irresponsible. I always loved that part of myself and don't want to lose it. But I don't see how I've disintegrated to 1 at all. If you could point me towards where areas where I seem disintegrated I'd really appreciate it because of course becoming less unhealthy is something that sounds desirable for me!
 

Avocado

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^^Holy Dalai Lama [MENTION=18694]Magic Qwan[/MENTION] ...

The fact the first *triple post* I've ever seen on this site involved an individual expressing to me that they occasionally take my father's advice... I'm actually having a slight panic attack right now...and may drive myself to the emergency room later for xanax and an oxygen tank. Please don't do that haha. I mean, the whole "who's gonna give a shit..." <-that's a good one. Anything else you see me quoting of my father's though...just...don't even read it.


LOL, ok...
 

five sounds

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soo curious to hear about where i am on the disintegration spectrum :X

i tried to contain myself but i just really wanna know!
 

valaki

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I was in the same room once with the Dalai Lama...
I appreciate this question because it caused me to think even more about something that has bothered me...that has consumed a great deal of my thoughts for some time now.

Must've been a nice experience. ;)

Glad if my question helped with something.


Not so long ago an INFJ member here put something to words for me and I have felt relieved and grateful ever since (I don't know why I couldn't do this for myself...? but no matter what I did I couldn't get words assigned to this impression.) That what I primarily see around me on a daily basis are people that "mistake comfortable, uneventful circumstance...for good mental and emotional health and wellbeing." <-And while I am not discounting the role each individual plays in their own comfortable, uneventful circumstance... 'circumstance' and 'integration' are two completely separate entities.

I certainly don't mistake that for wellbeing. I hate ruts.


(...) What's weird though is she never mentioned when recounting her struggle how much easier spiritual-journeying probably is... when you can dedicate all of your time to it because you don't have to work. When you live in a penthouse apt. in New York city and you've got a fat alimony check coming in every month. When you have your own personal nutritionist, yoga coach and acupuncturist. When you can travel to all the 'spiritual hot-spots' and consult with every known guru. When you have no children and can afford the 80 lbs of fruits and vegetables it takes to make one glass of juice for your total body cleanse. <-WTF? Who misses this? Who doesn't make this connection? Who gives themselves all the credit for their successes when...? A lot of people. How in the hell can I take this individual's self-help advice as realistic, reasonable, effective...? See, what I want to know is how *integrated* would she be today if she had none of it... How integrated would she be if tomorrow it was all taken away... ???

Lol body cleanse, what bullshit is that. Anyway I get your point though I wouldn't want to go into speculating if harder life circumstances would've got in the way, or quite the opposite, would've ACTUALLY helped. What doesn't kill you... yeah makes your stronger.

As for the advice being realistic, I think I agree more on that, yeah, if one of her tips is this BS cleansing crap then I wouldn't really pay attention to the rest of her advice :D It does sound like all BS even without knowing about these circumstances of her life.

Oh and that about having a bad relationship with the husband, that does make some sense though, money isn't going to fix that sort of issue.


I have speculated that integration on earth is not possible. I have certainly met people that are strong, enlightened, righteous, just, good <-but I personally have never met an individual that I believe was sustainably so (except for maybe the Dalai Lama like I said. I think he could perhaps handle whatever was thrown his way :wink: .) I have never met an individual that wasn't making use of some form of denial, compartmentalization, rationalization, blame, escape, etc. It is only the people that are aware of this and admit it openly that I care to take my self-help tips from.

Good point, the bolded. Good thing I'm not trying to be perfect though. I would like to understand some things more, though.

Now, I'll join the others... :p Do you see disintegration about me? :) 1 or 5? :p (7 vs 8) :p
 

HongDou

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soo curious to hear about where i am on the disintegration spectrum :X

i tried to contain myself but i just really wanna know!

Silly Nic, you know E7s can't be contained. :wink:
 

The Great One

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maybe. I've become more free with age, though, and I expect the trend to continue...
]

Yeah, I feel very happy but yet also very trapped in relationships. The 7 wing gives me "the grass is greener" mentality with everything. I hate it!
 

Starry

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Wow. I just 'happened upon' these posts in this thread... I'll try to respond throughout the day...sorry.


Oooh, interesting observation. :thinking: Would you mind illustrating an example of this? I thought when Magic said he was more of a slave to his superego and was very critical of himself when he violated what he thought he ought to do it sounded very 1ish. Maybe it could be being social-dom and Fi, but I'm both of those things and I'm not like that at all. I let myself off too easy. :blush: Would it be a so/sp vs so/sx difference?

Hmm? I get what you mean when you see that I'm holding tight at 7. Connecting with 5, while I acknowledge it as a step towards personal growth, also scares me because it feels like losing a part of myself and caving into all those people who constantly told me I need to focus myself and not be so irresponsible. I always loved that part of myself and don't want to lose it. But I don't see how I've disintegrated to 1 at all. If you could point me towards where areas where I seem disintegrated I'd really appreciate it because of course becoming less unhealthy is something that sounds desirable for me!

I always forget to put in this disclaimer when talking about enneagram...that I do not see each individual's stress and integration point as 'either/or one-way destinations.' I basically forget that this isn't the common understanding of how the enneagram 'works.' For example, I do not believe unhealthy, stressed-out 7s will (only) make a connection to e1...while health is only possible once a connection to e5 is made. <-Not at all. I've seen e7s connected or not-connected between these 3 points in all kinds of crazy ways...sometimes mixing it up... making and breaking connections throughout the day haha.

I've encountered a good number of e7s on this site that are connected to e5 in a negative way myself included. I'm not sure why this occurs or what factors make this kind of thing more likely... A couple of things I've noticed is yes, sp in the aux position always seems to show up...but also an 'over-idealism' and an inclination towards 'magical thinking' on the part of the 7 as well. Obviously, in the absence of scientific research on a theory that isn't even legitimized by spell-check haha...it is difficult to be sure. But this is what I recognize in myself and others like me. It's kinda like...the higher up you are the greater the pain of the fall. Once the *magic* gets ripped from them...when there's no more reason to 'live in abundance'...these guys can throw themselves into an unhealthy 'nihilism.' The superego-critical stuff is a byproduct of a shitty connection to 5 as far as I'm concerned. Die-hard believers in Neverland like [MENTION=18694]Magic Qwan[/MENTION] and myself can start to feel ping-ponged back and forth between 'what we believe should be (what we previously believed in)' and 'what we fear is.' The two of us, however, are learning to uncover the beauty...which sucks because neither of us feel we should have to do work. Everything should work like...magic. duh.

Many, if not most idk, 7s...do what I referred to as 'holding tight at 7.' They don't really demonstrate positive or negative behaviors considered to be e1 or e5 in nature...they're just the happy, go-lucky classic e7 we all recognize. <-Is this a good or bad thing? It would be difficult to know really without being on an intimate basis with the 7...but if Life doesn't tear you down and apart...if everything seems to be going swell for yah...I think 7 is a wonderful place to be (I'm on my way back to it having been gone for an extended journey :wink:)
 

Starry

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soo curious to hear about where i am on the disintegration spectrum :X

i tried to contain myself but i just really wanna know!

You're a total mess. omg No haha. You are just the loveliest of human beings. Your feelings are as deep as the ocean...but I envy how you've retained a fairly practical edge...you do what you can to take things as they come and make sure to take away as much wisdom as possible from every lesson. You didn't stand at the beginning of your life like I apparently did and say "you know what I want? I want to live primarily in the world of imagination to insure all my lessons are hard, painful and seemingly come out of nowhere" haha. I see you getting a little ISTJ e1 all up in your ENFP e7 bsnss every once and awhile... over lost paperwork or socially 'inappropriate' ways to turn down dates to weddings (?)...but with the way the world is structured I'm not sure how that could have been/be avoided. We're just picking up where every single person we met in our formative years has left off... but for the most part you're doing e7 right and really making me look bad...all of you!
 

Starry

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I certainly don't mistake that for wellbeing. I hate ruts.

haha. I loved this. You and I should go into business together with a "ruts = bad livin" bumper sticker and of course...do a public school campaign as well. The *thorn* to this rose though...is that I fucked-up what I was saying. um where I said 'uneventful'... what I should have said was 'nothing especially tragic has happened to you recently...or possibly ever.'

In other words, whether an individual's life has become routine or each day is entirely different from the one before...that doesn't really matter (wtf Starry? geez.) People mistake 'nothing massively shitty happening' for 'I am solid. I'm mentally healthy.' When you and I both know...they just haven't been tested.

^^I think a lot of things go wrong when people do this. Here though, I was trying to explain why it is so many "healthy" people give me that scary, hollow feeling (and as far as I'm concerned should be restricted by law from making self-help videos that I might accidentally check out from the library)...while so many people in pain and despair and hardship...seem quite solid.



Oh and that about having a bad relationship with the husband, that does make some sense though, money isn't going to fix that sort of issue.

^^I think this is such a good point and not one that is lost to me... I disagree but acknowledge the above is considered a very healthy way of looking at these kinds of things. More people would/will agree with your statement above than what I will say and so I acknowledge that as well. And I'm multi-tasking here which is especially confusing. [MENTION=9486]gromit[/MENTION]

I had an ENFP supervisor that... one day had returned to our office after having been gone all morning visiting a friend of her's in the hospital that had terminal cancer. And she was a bit pale...she didn't say 'hi' or anything...she was just sorta sputtering all around kinda shaking and knocking shit over. So I was like 'wtf?' Basically, she was processing the embarrassment she felt over how many times she caught herself genuinely complaining about stuff that just... didn't... seem... all that tragic... once verbalized to someone dying in the hospital.

Now, my supervisor did blurt-out an apology for her behavior...to which her friend responded by mentioning this sort of Zen-like ideology...this notion that "we can't judge another person's suffering" <-And since this time I have poured thousands of hours into the consideration of this one precept. Ultimately concluding that that is absolute bullshit haha.

I mean, I think if you are dying in the hospital... listening to your friend discuss how she just can't recover from her last relationship that lasted 3 days...saying to yourself "we can't judge another person's suffering" is probably the smart thing to do. If, however, you have a difficult time seeing past your own narcissism...and one day find yourself complaining to a terminally ill person about men and work and 'just how hard you have it'...in my mind...that would be a very good time for you to begin judging other people's sufferings.

Money can't solve this lady's problems. If she were to take a moment though to consider her situation... against say...the situations of the 18 homeless people living in dumpsters she passed on her way to her pedicure <-that might help. That's how her money can help ha.


Do you see disintegration about me? :) 1 or 5? :p (7 vs 8) :p


Oh my money's on 8 for you valaki don't you kinda think? I mean, I think what you've got listed is accurate...I get the sense you know yourself pretty damn well. And while I haven't had a lot of exposure to you on the site I believe what I have seen is very much in line with 5>8>2
 

hjgbujhghg

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I know this feeling pretty well and is not only about relationships, to be honest anything stereotypical and obligatory , somehow takes your freedom from you. This was the reason why I didn't want to be in a relationship 'till I was almost 20...I fear the obligations and unfreedom it brings.
 

Avocado

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Wow. I just 'happened upon' these posts in this thread... I'll try to respond throughout the day...sorry.




I always forget to put in this disclaimer when talking about enneagram...that I do not see each individual's stress and integration point as 'either/or one-way destinations.' I basically forget that this isn't the common understanding of how the enneagram 'works.' For example, I do not believe unhealthy, stressed-out 7s will (only) make a connection to e1...while health is only possible once a connection to e5 is made. <-Not at all. I've seen e7s connected or not-connected between these 3 points in all kinds of crazy ways...sometimes mixing it up... making and breaking connections throughout the day haha.

I've encountered a good number of e7s on this site that are connected to e5 in a negative way myself included. I'm not sure why this occurs or what factors make this kind of thing more likely... A couple of things I've noticed is yes, sp in the aux position always seems to show up...but also an 'over-idealism' and an inclination towards 'magical thinking' on the part of the 7 as well. Obviously, in the absence of scientific research on a theory that isn't even legitimized by spell-check haha...it is difficult to be sure. But this is what I recognize in myself and others like me. It's kinda like...the higher up you are the greater the pain of the fall. Once the *magic* gets ripped from them...when there's no more reason to 'live in abundance'...these guys can throw themselves into an unhealthy 'nihilism.' The superego-critical stuff is a byproduct of a shitty connection to 5 as far as I'm concerned. Die-hard believers in Neverland like [MENTION=18694]Magic Qwan[/MENTION] and myself can start to feel ping-ponged back and forth between 'what we believe should be (what we previously believed in)' and 'what we fear is.' The two of us, however, are learning to uncover the beauty...which sucks because neither of us feel we should have to do work. Everything should work like...magic. duh.

Many, if not most idk, 7s...do what I referred to as 'holding tight at 7.' They don't really demonstrate positive or negative behaviors considered to be e1 or e5 in nature...they're just the happy, go-lucky classic e7 we all recognize. <-Is this a good or bad thing? It would be difficult to know really without being on an intimate basis with the 7...but if Life doesn't tear you down and apart...if everything seems to be going swell for yah...I think 7 is a wonderful place to be (I'm on my way back to it having been gone for an extended journey :wink:)

wow.. story of my life...
 

Avocado

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haha. same.

I wonder if I'm Sx/Sp, after all? I don't feel intense, but people who know me say I am. My values differ from my society radically, but I try to be as kind as I can...
 

NK258

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7's are so silly. They just need to take responsibility for themselves and communicate the need for a long leash. No one is a mind reader. I myself don't need a long leash but I need to not be manhandled. Every person (or type) just needs to know their needs and communicate them. Of course, I'm still learning so I suppose it's all relative to timing :p
 

valaki

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haha. I loved this. You and I should go into business together with a "ruts = bad livin" bumper sticker and of course...do a public school campaign as well.

Lol.


^^I think this is such a good point and not one that is lost to me... I disagree but acknowledge the above is considered a very healthy way of looking at these kinds of things. More people would/will agree with your statement above than what I will say and so I acknowledge that as well.

Money can't solve this lady's problems. If she were to take a moment though to consider her situation... against say...the situations of the 18 homeless people living in dumpsters she passed on her way to her pedicure <-that might help. That's how her money can help ha.

Yeah, well money would help with that, sure. I don't see how anyone would disagree on that one. Buuut, such a smart way of twisting this statement of mine into such a different direction ;) Heheh.

(Don't take that the wrong way, I don't have a problem with it :p )


Oh my money's on 8 for you valaki don't you kinda think? I mean, I think what you've got listed is accurate...I get the sense you know yourself pretty damn well. And while I haven't had a lot of exposure to you on the site I believe what I have seen is very much in line with 5>8>2

Lol I could know myself better. Anyway thanks for the opinion :)
 
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