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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    What's wrong with people taking things into their own hands? It seems like you may be jumping in and out and they might be frustrated with what to expect and when.

    Why not pull them together and facilitate the development of that plan you mention so that they feel like and are part of defining what should be done and so they understand it and can support it.

    There is absolutely nothing wrong with being spontaneous. Maybe a concept will help here. There is a really good chapter in "Please Understand Me II" about leadership. It explains 4 types that each temperament tends to gravitate to:
    - SPs (tactical leadership)
    - NTs (strategic leadership)
    - NFs (diplomatic leadership)
    - SJs (logistical leadership)

    I have found that I'm best at strategic. I'm good at tactical as well. Diplomatic and logistical are less strong. In particular, logistical leadership bores me. I can develop the detailed plan as well or better than most but it just doesn't particularly interest me to be ticking and tying to that on a daily basis. Left to my own devices, I will provide that strategic leadership (though not always communicating it as well as I need to) and exercise a lot of tactical leadership on a day to day basis. The result is that people may not understand why I'm making or directing some of the moves that I'm making. I have to remind myself to explain things. To compensate for some of these natural tendencies, a major thing that I do is to realize what I'm good at, what I suck at and to team with others where I have weaknesses. Part of it is letting go and allowing people to run with things, in particular in those areas of weakness. I have learned that it isn't a good idea for me to call all the shots. So to compensate for these weaknesses, I will mostly unconsciously engage with others that can provide the logistical leadership and diplomatic leadership for us to be an effective team working together.
    Hmm... Yes I'm very good at the in the moment leadership. I NEED A SNIPER OVER THERE. YOU SHOOT THAT GUY. that kinda stuff. Unfortunately in this business there are many many periods of stagnancy. So I'm essentially bored and not showing my gusto, and everyone else is just sitting around waiting for what to do and I feel responsible when they start to ask me what to do.

    Perhaps I just need to tell them, "well guys, there isn't much to report. Keep on keepin on. See you next meeting."

  2. #42
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azure Flame View Post
    While we're on the topic, I want someone to tell me I'm doing what I'm supposed to be good for.

    6's want stability last I checked. ESTJ's, ENTJ's, ENFJs', etc... they are good with providing enthusiasm on a routine basis. Whereas my enthusiasm is spontaneous and unpredictable. It frustrates all the 6's around me because I'm hot and cold. But when I get enthusiastic and I want a project done, I move MOUNTAINS.

    I hate having 6's around me because they always judge me negatively based on my lack of consistency. And its painful for me to give this consistency. It is a difficult chore for me to be dependable. I like the idea that I'm a weapon that people pull out when they need it, and then they put me in the closet when they're done. Fuckin Il duce.

    So am I doing something wrong? Or do I just need to make my purpose known? I think I do provide a sense of stability to others in the fact that I'm not concerned with the things they are.

    This turned into a little bit of a vent...which I'm sure (sarcastic) is what you were looking for more of.


    First off I have to apologize.

    For LMFAO at the OP.

    Holy fuck I was out of breath laughing hysterically.

    That is so me. LMAO You just have to deal with the cloud. Ha ha!!! They're just being themselves. lol let them be.

    They are a well working machine. A 6 will do anything you ask of them. They are ridiculous in that way.

    This is your responsibility as their supervisor.

    I have the same shit with my E8 boss. I've been trying to get a list of fucking priorities from her for 3 years. Bitch just wont give it to me.

    That is HER loss. Cause if she just told me what her priorities were and what the worst case scenario for her would be...I would uphold that list. And I'd make sure that the worst case never happened.

    But it's her own fault to blame, I have to make my own list now. Fuck her. And she doesn't like my list now. Which I find hysterical. It's too bad for her now if she doesn't like it. She left me in charge...that's what she gets. She was just dumb....she had putty in her hands...and told the fucking putty to build its self a castle with out the fucking MANUAL! Who does that??? I need a GD manual! Or else I don't know what you want you're gd castle to look like!!!!!

    See this ^ is a perfect example of what you could avoid doing.

    Give them your priorities, and what you think would be the worst case scenario. Don't let them try to figure it out on their own. They will guess wrong.

    8's are not that easy to read.

    Even if you do have Fe lol

    So I finally figured out that an 8 wants the problem to be solved for them. And having to figure this out on my own...was shitty and I resent my boss for it now.

    8's just want to say yes put it into place, after you have gone through the process of identifying the problem, AND fixing it. You just have to tell them this is what we're doing, and they ok it.

    Just tell them what u want. Even if its something that sounds like its common sense. A 6 will let u program them like a robot if you let them. They want to please you. But you have to be upfront and sometimes spell it out how to do so.


    What the hell do I need the 8 around for if they aren't going to tell me what they want?


    This of course is all subjective experience I've had, so I'm not mad at you or anything lol. I am just saying, that these little steps would help.



    Quote Originally Posted by Azure Flame View Post
    Thanks for the responses guys.

    Perhaps my direct action will eventually yield their understanding. I'm setting up weekly meetings and trying to get some privacy.

    conversation I had with my ENFJ 6 head manager:

    me: I feel like everything is great when I have something for you guys to do. There's a mission in place, I'm enthusiastic, and everyone else is too. But in the last 2 months there has been nothing for us to do and I wanted to see how you guys act hands off. I'm not sure I can provide the consistent action that you guys seem to enjoy.
    enfj: oh you're consistent. you're just consistently miserable and unhappy.
    me: no I'm not I'm fine.
    enfj: we have plenty of drive and enthusiasm, you're just not joining it.
    me: I deactivated my car to save money on insurance and gas and I live on your living room floor. I can't be physically with all you guys every day.
    enfj: its fine. We understand. Do what you do. (I interpret this as a passive aggressive response when matched with the bitter look on his face and tone of voice)
    me: I'd like to set up weekly meetings on skype.
    enfj: *sharp tone* we already have weekly meetings at the gym. You're not seeing them.

    this is what I have to deal with. I ask for feedback but he always tells me I'm doing fine and nothing needs to change. Yet I have to deal with his attitude all the time. But when I'm enthusiastic and have something for him to do, suddenly everything is cool. His bitterness seems to be present anytime I act cold around him. Considering I'm a cold person and dont' always feel like smiling, its difficult when I feel like I have to be bright and smiley all the time around him. I'm thinking I just need to not live with him anymore so that everytime I'm interacting with him, its on the grounds of enthusiasm with a plan at hand.
    ugh I love enfj's but this sounds like macho syndrome

    I work with an ENFJ.

    and he just can't stand not being in charge.....

    That doesn't sound routed in 6 ness
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  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azure Flame View Post
    me: I feel like everything is great when I have something for you guys to do. There's a mission in place, I'm enthusiastic, and everyone else is too. But in the last 2 months there has been nothing for us to do and I wanted to see how you guys act hands off. I'm not sure I can provide the consistent action that you guys seem to enjoy.
    enfj: oh you're consistent. you're just consistently miserable and unhappy.
    me: no I'm not I'm fine.
    enfj: we have plenty of drive and enthusiasm, you're just not joining it.
    me: I deactivated my car to save money on insurance and gas and I live on your living room floor. I can't be physically with all you guys every day.
    enfj: its fine. We understand. Do what you do. (I interpret this as a passive aggressive response when matched with the bitter look on his face and tone of voice)
    me: I'd like to set up weekly meetings on skype.
    enfj: *sharp tone* we already have weekly meetings at the gym. You're not seeing them.
    lol if this was me everyone is so fired. You have to decide what kind of leader you want to be or else they are going to walk all over you. I prefer ruthless and effective it's less messy. I would never show weakness or let them talk shit to me.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by badger055 View Post
    lol if this was me everyone is so fired. You have to decide what kind of leader you want to be or else they are going to walk all over you. I prefer ruthless and effective it's less messy. I would never show weakness or let them talk shit to me.
    The ENFJ is the only problem. Everyone else is great. As long as I get all the money its not a problem. But ENFJ definitely wants to be in charge all the time, even though he gets confused an indecisive and comes to me for advice, then feels ashamed of himself for asking for help.

    lol, @Starry told me that 6's tend to grab their pitchforks when there's no one telling them what to do haha.

    @urarianev... so what do you mean by "send me your priorities?"

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azure Flame View Post
    Thanks for the responses guys.

    Perhaps my direct action will eventually yield their understanding. I'm setting up weekly meetings and trying to get some privacy.

    conversation I had with my ENFJ 6 head manager:

    me: I feel like everything is great when I have something for you guys to do. There's a mission in place, I'm enthusiastic, and everyone else is too. But in the last 2 months there has been nothing for us to do and I wanted to see how you guys act hands off. I'm not sure I can provide the consistent action that you guys seem to enjoy.
    enfj: oh you're consistent. you're just consistently miserable and unhappy.
    me: no I'm not I'm fine.
    enfj: we have plenty of drive and enthusiasm, you're just not joining it.
    me: I deactivated my car to save money on insurance and gas and I live on your living room floor. I can't be physically with all you guys every day.
    enfj: its fine. We understand. Do what you do. (I interpret this as a passive aggressive response when matched with the bitter look on his face and tone of voice)
    me: I'd like to set up weekly meetings on skype.
    enfj: *sharp tone* we already have weekly meetings at the gym. You're not seeing them.

    this is what I have to deal with. I ask for feedback but he always tells me I'm doing fine and nothing needs to change. Yet I have to deal with his attitude all the time. But when I'm enthusiastic and have something for him to do, suddenly everything is cool. His bitterness seems to be present anytime I act cold around him. Considering I'm a cold person and dont' always feel like smiling, its difficult when I feel like I have to be bright and smiley all the time around him. I'm thinking I just need to not live with him anymore so that everytime I'm interacting with him, its on the grounds of enthusiasm with a plan at hand.
    I could be completely wrong but one of the aspects of Fe is that it seems to approve of things that are on the socially acceptable side of the spectrum and disapprove of things that are not. If you act cold, people can think you don't like them and if you are meditating in your office, people might think that's weird. It's exactly the kind of thing that an Fe dom or aux would bring to your attention in an effort to provide incentive for you to change because their judgment that it would be good for the group as a whole.

    I believe Fe doms are very much motivated to support what is best for the group as a whole, so I would suggest considering that it might not be so much about them personally. They are sensitive to the overall atmosphere. 6s are also very alert to problems before they happen. The impression I'm getting is that he feels that you are not connecting enough with the staff. He may be concerned about morale, people feeling appreciated and things like that. He may feel that it would be better to connect with people in person at the gym instead of skype also. People need to hear you and see you. There is a book I can recommend called The Leadership Challenge by Koutzes and Posner. It has very practical and concrete advice about leadership. It helped me when I read it.

    As I think about what I'm writing here, it helps me to realize just how valuable that Fe perspective is to me. I value when others bring it because it is not something that I really do. It's very much a blind spot for me.

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  6. #46
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azure Flame View Post
    The ENFJ is the only problem. Everyone else is great. As long as I get all the money its not a problem. But ENFJ definitely wants to be in charge all the time, even though he gets confused an indecisive and comes to me for advice, then feels ashamed of himself for asking for help.

    lol, @Starry told me that 6's tend to grab their pitchforks when there's no one telling them what to do haha.

    @urarianev... so what do you mean by "send me your priorities?"
    Well I will give you an example: At my job I want a clear cut answer.I have 2 bosses sorta. And I have figured out by trial and error (a dreaded way to find things out for me) that one boss holds customer service higher than money. The other one, kind of the opposite. In this case that means that I have more leeway to tell the guest " let me see what I can do for you" instead of "this is policy sir".


    At the bank I used to work at...policy was everything. Every job is different, and I'm not going to assume they are all the same. You have to program me like a robot. Even if you think it's common sense. Program it!

    You could start by sharing a vision of where you want things to progress. Or having a rule book. 6's are always looking for the rule book. They are guidelines to me. I don't like to make mistakes, and I don't want to be in trouble.

    I should be able to make decisions on my own. And not have to ask my bosses for help. Or be unsure if I will have a talking to if I make a decision.

    This still goes back to worst case scenario i think.

    For me, i need to know (other than a fire or emergency situation) what the most important thing is to my boss, so that I don't get disapproval.

    This is so that my boss is predictable. At least to some degree.

    That kind of stuff. My best boss ever was an ISFJ he was always talking about what he wanted the place to look like, and he shared some of his anxieties and concerns with me. It helped me get into his head and build the kind of atmosphere he wanted. While avoiding going down the path where he had concerns.

    I am mostly counter phobic in my home life and phobic at work though.

    Do your employees seem phobic or cp at work?
    "Once the game is over, the Pawn and the King go back into the same box"

    Freedom isn't free.
    "Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." ~ Orwell
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  7. #47
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    The never-broadening vigilance of the enneagram six.

    I think it's been written a dozen times over, yeah, they're on the whole unlikable.

  8. #48
    Blind Guardian Haven's Avatar
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    I had a girlfriend I think was a 6. Seemed like the more I did for her, the less happy she was with me and the more she'd try to provoke me, and when I ended up telling her what was on my mind, whatever it was, confirmed her greatest fear and she'd burst into tears. Usually I can be really soft and encouraging with the truth, but damn when you try to extract it from me it's not always nice.

    But then I think, hey did I say that because I actually felt it or because I was being hassled non-stop and I just wanted to get her off my back?
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  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by superunknown View Post
    The never-broadening vigilence of the enneagram six.

    I think it's been written a dozen times over, yeah, they're on the whole unlikable.
    Uggghh.

  10. #50
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    I can't relate to any of your descriptions of Sixes in the workplace, frankly. But if you need a scapegoat...

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