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  1. #31
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azure Flame View Post
    That is what scares me. Whenever I am taking a breath, they seem to be freaking out wondering where I disappeared to and then taking matters into their own hands. I can sense it. Like I'm standing in fog and its closing in around me at all times filling the spaces I used to occupy.

    But the thing is, I am spontaneous. Its not going away. My dad told me I should give a 1 month, 3 month, 6 month plan, and update them on that weekly. Do you think that would help? I need a concrete solution.
    What's wrong with people taking things into their own hands? It seems like you may be jumping in and out and they might be frustrated with what to expect and when.

    Why not pull them together and facilitate the development of that plan you mention so that they feel like and are part of defining what should be done and so they understand it and can support it.

    There is absolutely nothing wrong with being spontaneous. Maybe a concept will help here. There is a really good chapter in "Please Understand Me II" about leadership. It explains 4 types that each temperament tends to gravitate to:
    - SPs (tactical leadership)
    - NTs (strategic leadership)
    - NFs (diplomatic leadership)
    - SJs (logistical leadership)

    I have found that I'm best at strategic. I'm good at tactical as well. Diplomatic and logistical are less strong. In particular, logistical leadership bores me. I can develop the detailed plan as well or better than most but it just doesn't particularly interest me to be ticking and tying to that on a daily basis. Left to my own devices, I will provide that strategic leadership (though not always communicating it as well as I need to) and exercise a lot of tactical leadership on a day to day basis. The result is that people may not understand why I'm making or directing some of the moves that I'm making. I have to remind myself to explain things. To compensate for some of these natural tendencies, a major thing that I do is to realize what I'm good at, what I suck at and to team with others where I have weaknesses. Part of it is letting go and allowing people to run with things, in particular in those areas of weakness. I have learned that it isn't a good idea for me to call all the shots. So to compensate for these weaknesses, I will mostly unconsciously engage with others that can provide the logistical leadership and diplomatic leadership for us to be an effective team working together.

    Please provide feedback on my Nohari and Johari Window by clicking here: Nohari/Johari

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  2. #32
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azure Flame View Post
    I don't trust enfj's. A lot of em are pretty damn fake.
    This is a good example of making one of those negative judgments. To be honest, I have personally struggled with this Fe dom fakeness issue. In no time flat, the "bullshit meter" would go off. It was an aha moment when I began to realize - oh this is an Fe dom - that's how they express themselves and to remove some of this negative natural bias I had towards the way they tended to interact. They are just being themselves.

    Please provide feedback on my Nohari and Johari Window by clicking here: Nohari/Johari

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  3. #33
    failed poetry slam career chubber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    This is a good example of making one of those negative judgments. To be honest, I have personally struggled with this Fe dom fakeness issue. In no time flat, the "bullshit meter" would go off. It was an aha moment when I began to realize - oh this is an Fe dom - that's how they express themselves and to remove some of this negative natural bias I had towards the way they tended to interact. They are just being themselves.
    I have a problem with Fe too, how do you mind warp yourself to accept it? Because that Fe is sometimes to me, just really hollow and selective and ends up being annoying.

  4. #34
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chubber View Post
    I have a problem with Fe too, how do you mind warp yourself to accept it? Because that Fe is sometimes to me, just really hollow and selective and ends up being annoying.
    Simple. I accept it as being no better and no worse that Fi or any other function that I prefer. They're just functions that help support your mental processes.

    Please provide feedback on my Nohari and Johari Window by clicking here: Nohari/Johari

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  5. #35
    failed poetry slam career chubber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    Simple. I accept it as being no better and no worse that Fi or any other function that I prefer. They're just functions that help support your mental processes.
    Are you saying that you engage Te more often to resolve valued issues?

    edit: I think I have the same problem with Fi-dom too so it's not really just Fe-dom for me.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wind Up Rex View Post
    Is this one of those things where some guy goes on some intensely homophobic rant only for it to be revealed that he's been frequenting bath houses for the past thirty years?
    *laughs*

  7. #37
    Senior Member Sanjuro's Avatar
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    Hey, I can sympathise with your frustrations with your fellow mankind. I thought of a few questions as I went through your OP, which would help me understand better the nature of your problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by Azure Flame View Post
    I thought having an E6 as a boss was rough... having them as subordinates is just as bad! Its just fucking anxiety constantly. ANd they work their asses off to stave off the anxiety. And then as their boss who isn't a 6, I'm sitting calmly in my office meditating. They now talk behind my back about how lazy I am, or how they're worried about me because all I do is sit in my office being anxious! I'm not "Sitting in my office being anxious," I'm meditating and planning my next move, or enjoying some hot cocoa once in a while.
    I guess my question here is, What exactly bothers you? Serious question, not trolling. If they're working their asses off, who cares what they say? If you're managing adequately and everyone's getting things done, there's no cause to worry. Right?

    Its like they're completely fucking oblivious to the fact that other people don't have the same problems they do!
    LOL, most people are like that. We all project our psychological state on others. Very normal. You should introduce them to the enneagram!

    And I can't escape their anxiety. Working with them is completely miserable. If I move out of the house they live in, they visit me every day. If drive away in the car, they call my cell phone looking for validation on their decision!
    First, what is it about the anxiety that is bugging you? I'm not real clear.

    Given the above scenarios, it sounds more like you have every opportunity to see your vision through to a T--I wish I had employees that awaited my every response! Use it all to your advantage I say!! Though if they're really calling you out of line, I'd simply turn of the phone or not give the number out.

    "Just tell them to leave you alone." I did that. I saw pain in their eyes. And then several of them started badmouthing me about how "I just want to play CEO" and "I just wanna be this" and "I just wanna do that" or how i"m completely selfish.
    Is that bad? Employees are gonna talk about the boss, regardless of enneatype. Your job as boss is to ignore the petty stuff and just focus on the goal. That's what I think. Pretend it's not happening.

    I'm at a loss. I have no idea how to deal with these people anymore. This is miserable and I don't know how to fucking satisfy their expectations. It seems like whenever I give them something they just want more, and when I take it away, they stop working entirely.
    Question, how many of them are there? Are you sure they're ALL 6s?

    Please help. I feel like I'm supposed to completely ignore all emotions and thoughts running through their head and just do what I do and they will follow. I don't like it, but I'm starting to not take anything they think or feel seriously and view them as extremely predictable. Its like I'm this dude walking down the street and they're dancing around me waving their arms and poking me with sticks to see what I do. And it just never fucking ends. My full time job is to get poked with sticks from all directions. Unbelievable.
    If they're really like that, it sounds like they're immature more than anything else. I hope you're getting paid well.

    However, when 6s start poking, it's generally to test you out as an authority. Hold firm and maintain your sense of humor. That's about all you can do.

  8. #38
    Rainy Day Woman MDP2525's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azure Flame View Post
    I thought having an E6 as a boss was rough... having them as subordinates is just as bad! Its just fucking anxiety constantly. ANd they work their asses off to stave off the anxiety. And then as their boss who isn't a 6, I'm sitting calmly in my office meditating. They now talk behind my back about how lazy I am, or how they're worried about me because all I do is sit in my office being anxious! I'm not "Sitting in my office being anxious," I'm meditating and planning my next move, or enjoying some hot cocoa once in a while.

    Its like they're completely fucking oblivious to the fact that other people don't have the same problems they do!

    Its like, they are this self sufficient cloud of hell that supports itself and I need to just fucking get out of the way. But when I get out of the way, they think I'm no longer supporting them, so they take over and start doubting my leadership, and giving me that fucking "you left me out to die!" look on their face.

    And I can't escape their anxiety. Working with them is completely miserable. If I move out of the house they live in, they visit me every day. If drive away in the car, they call my cell phone looking for validation on their decision!

    "Just tell them to leave you alone." I did that. I saw pain in their eyes. And then several of them started badmouthing me about how "I just want to play CEO" and "I just wanna be this" and "I just wanna do that" or how i"m completely selfish.

    I'm at a loss. I have no idea how to deal with these people anymore. This is miserable and I don't know how to fucking satisfy their expectations. It seems like whenever I give them something they just want more, and when I take it away, they stop working entirely.

    *pulls hair out*

    Please help. I feel like I'm supposed to completely ignore all emotions and thoughts running through their head and just do what I do and they will follow. I don't like it, but I'm starting to not take anything they think or feel seriously and view them as extremely predictable. Its like I'm this dude walking down the street and they're dancing around me waving their arms and poking me with sticks to see what I do. And it just never fucking ends. My full time job is to get poked with sticks from all directions. Unbelievable.
    As an E6 boss who manages more than 20 people in a very high volume business, I can give you some words of advice. Your employees/people under you work very hard. It is a team effort - yes you do very different things and they should realize this. Most of them won't because they aren't in your shoes. No matter what decision you make you aren't going to please 25-50% of your staff. You just have to do your best and realize there is a bigger picture even if they don't see it (it's not their job/responsibility to see it).

    If you are in the office and have no validation for that time spent in there, (meditating? That would make me scratch my head too. ) then I can see their point. Or at least, manage the time spent in the office on down times for the job. You have to be hands-on otherwise respect will never be gained and it is that much harder to collectively attain goals.

    Either way, you can't think of them as idiots. You will soon start to treat them as such subconsciously and your lack of appreciation and respect will show in your mood and actions.

    You need them just as much as they need you.
    ~luck favors the ready~


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  9. #39
    Paranoid Android Video's Avatar
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    You could give them to me if I were a boss. I love this type.
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  10. #40
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    Thanks for the responses guys.

    Perhaps my direct action will eventually yield their understanding. I'm setting up weekly meetings and trying to get some privacy.

    conversation I had with my ENFJ 6 head manager:

    me: I feel like everything is great when I have something for you guys to do. There's a mission in place, I'm enthusiastic, and everyone else is too. But in the last 2 months there has been nothing for us to do and I wanted to see how you guys act hands off. I'm not sure I can provide the consistent action that you guys seem to enjoy.
    enfj: oh you're consistent. you're just consistently miserable and unhappy.
    me: no I'm not I'm fine.
    enfj: we have plenty of drive and enthusiasm, you're just not joining it.
    me: I deactivated my car to save money on insurance and gas and I live on your living room floor. I can't be physically with all you guys every day.
    enfj: its fine. We understand. Do what you do. (I interpret this as a passive aggressive response when matched with the bitter look on his face and tone of voice)
    me: I'd like to set up weekly meetings on skype.
    enfj: *sharp tone* we already have weekly meetings at the gym. You're not seeing them.

    this is what I have to deal with. I ask for feedback but he always tells me I'm doing fine and nothing needs to change. Yet I have to deal with his attitude all the time. But when I'm enthusiastic and have something for him to do, suddenly everything is cool. His bitterness seems to be present anytime I act cold around him. Considering I'm a cold person and dont' always feel like smiling, its difficult when I feel like I have to be bright and smiley all the time around him. I'm thinking I just need to not live with him anymore so that everytime I'm interacting with him, its on the grounds of enthusiasm with a plan at hand.

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