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  1. #21
    As Long As It Takes.... Redbone's Avatar
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    Thinking about this a little more...

    ...it's like eating cotton candy. It's pretty much gone as soon as it melts in the mouth which makes me want to stuff more in mouth to compensate. That kind of gluttony.

    So I have a problem immersing myself in an activity, experience, moment and truly enjoying it because my gaze and desire is far-sighted. This doesn't mean I'm not enjoying whatever I'm doing but the thought of "this is going to end, then what?" is always in the back of my head. I can feel upset or even frantic when things are winding down. I try to compensate by looking for very intense experiences so that I can feel "full" or even trying to push energy into things that I should just let die. I have gotten in over my head because of this.

    @skylights , this has been true but it was hard to recognize it for what it was. I only figured this out when I read another description of 7s going through a time where something wonderful was painfully ripped away from them (I think elfboy posted this?). It spoke of having a tranquil childhood period and then that being ripped away from them, similar to what 4s experience but later...a kind of ejection from Paradise. I think the description said being a suckling babe and torn away from the breast. There is a determination that this never, ever happens again.

    It's a bad thing, I know. As a 7, I need to grow and appreciate/feel gratitude for the now/present instead of instead of engaging in this intense mental masturbation by focusing on the next thing I want to consume. I was lying in the dark thinking about this a few weeks ago and was really horrified when I realized this. I felt really bad and realized that I had ruined something good by focusing on the distress that it would be over soon and being upset that I didn't have anything else to "eat".

    My sister is Se-dom 7w6 (ESFP). She is materialistic and immerses herself in physical, material pleasures. Her way is this kind of moment-to-moment, rung-to-rung movement from experience to experience. It's smoother and she seems much more open and present to whatever she's doing. I think she enjoys anticipation but seems to derive less pleasure from this than I do and doesn't seem to suffer from as much feeling let down if things don't play out like she imagined they should be. I'm much more likely to be pretty upset from things not playing out like they did in my imagination. She'd be quicker to find something else to do or affect the situation to make it more pleasing to her. I guess this ability to impact what's going on right now? Not sure how to describe it. I really, really envy that about her. @Halla74 does that sound about right to you as an Se-dom?

  2. #22
    Entertaining Cracker five sounds's Avatar
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    i definitely fill my 7-void with information as well as experiences. i want to learn everything about everything, and get a rush out of learning and discovering new things and people. same with music. it's that same force with an endless appetite for more. sx definitely intensifies it. i do like "things" like little odd trinkety things or beautiful things or meaningful things. i have kind of a cluttery life as a result. i read that 7w6 is drawn to things like that. that also sounds like it might be sp peeking out, but that's just a guess

    in this way, i'm not relating to that anticipation as much as some other people on here. i get immersed in information, people, and music, and feel very engaged. i DO feel that way, though, with life plans. i have a tendency to dream myself up a grand adventure or an awesome experience, and then not really be present while i'm there, and be looking around for more. i also really love having things to look forward to. i'm constantly placing little carrots in front of myself to keep myself moving forward. and it totally works!
    You hem me in -- behind and before;
    you have laid your hand upon me.
    Such knowledge is too wonderful for me,
    too lofty for me to attain.

  3. #23
    The Dark Lord The Wailing Specter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by five sounds View Post
    i definitely fill my 7-void with information as well as experiences. i want to learn everything about everything, and get a rush out of learning and discovering new things and people. same with music. it's that same force with an endless appetite for more. sx definitely intensifies it. i do like "things" like little odd trinkety things or beautiful things or meaningful things. i have kind of a cluttery life as a result. i read that 7w6 is drawn to things like that. that also sounds like it might be sp peeking out, but that's just a guess

    in this way, i'm not relating to that anticipation as much as some other people on here. i get immersed in information, people, and music, and feel very engaged. i DO feel that way, though, with life plans. i have a tendency to dream myself up a grand adventure or an awesome experience, and then not really be present while i'm there, and be looking around for more. i also really love having things to look forward to. i'm constantly placing little carrots in front of myself to keep myself moving forward. and it totally works!
    I agree
    Enneagram: 6w7 (phobic) > 2w1 > 9w1
    Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
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    SCIENCE ENTHUSIAST


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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    Let's face it, I'm a 7, I'm a 7w8, I'm a 7w8 Sx/So - and I've got a SERIOUS wild side - and so all that has been allowed to express itself at this point in my life, and I've recognized those things as MY NATURE, but evolved far past the point where I ever thought they were my PURPOSE or my DESTINY. I'm totally at peace with my nature; I love it in fact - it's part of what makes me who I am, but I'll not let it control me - or cause harm to those I love. Maturity and experience allows all that you are to find their place within you, to be at peace, and allow you to live your life in comfort and success.
    I see. Do you place yourself on a specific level for type health levels?


    Don't get me wrong, I am not without anxiousness, but I simply can't express when it affects me in a pattern of some kind related to my levels of activity, or thoughts about each day. If it comes to me later I'll reply as such, but I'm simply drawing a blank on this right now.
    Alright. Do let me know if it does.


    (2) I read the E7, E8, and E6 type descriptions at great length and in detail and realized that E7 was the decription that fit me best of all, however I also recognized I had a good dash of E8 in me.
    Yeah, but how did E7 fit you the best? I would be glad to hear specifics. Was it anything about gluttony? Or something else?


    (4) Also, in the spirit of full disclosure, I was born with a "7w8 Sx/So" tattoo on my ass. Just kidding.
    Yeah that way it's easy to type yourself


    (5) On a more serious note, my Dad is an ESTJ 8w7 - and I'm alot like him, but very much so my own person.
    So what are the main differences between you two?


    Then I said:
    "10-4"

    Yeah I know what you said it to, I just can't interpret what the numbers refer to :o


    Here's the Type 7 description from the Enneagram Institute's page. The reason I like it as a generic frame of reference for 7s is that it points out a wide variety of the predispositions 7s are typically noted to have - both one's most expect, but also those that are just as relevant but that don't stick out in most people's minds when they think of 7s becasue they don't fit the "E7 Wild Child" stereotype.

    In the description below I bolded the words/traits that are indeed those of 7s, but that I think are overlooked more often than not considering the reputation 7s typically have for being gregarious fun-loving people.
    Thanks that's good stuff.

    I relate to the bolded much more than the un-bolded, heh. Almost like you cherry picked the ones that describe me. (Though you left out a few negatives: impatience, going by impulses, needing more discipline)


    And when reading the bolded words below, please consider this summary of them: To be a person with any degree of freedom, have the ability to acquire things, to engage in a variety of experiences, and to focus one's talents on worthwhile goals most often necessitates being gainfully employed. Being gainfully employed requires consistently exhibiting responsibility of one or more varieties and applying one's talents to profitable undertakings. These are not typically the accomplishments of scatterred, frustrated party animals. Although 7s who are gainfully employed have in many ways the "fuel supply" for them to recognize their heart's desires, they are better yet served when they INTEGRATE their NEEDS with their OBLIGATIONS. My career is very challenging, I am busy to a terrifying degree by most people's standards, BUT over the years I have found a way to apply my skills to ENDEAVORS of PURPOSE and to use them during my work in ways that are FUN.
    Nice summary. You mention ADHD as well. So you basically had to learn to focus better? Do you originally relate to scatteredness, did you just manage to get a better focus over time?


    "To me, FUN is a MINDSET. I have fun doing almost anything each and every day. When I go shopping for groceries - I have fun. When I mow my yard and do landscaping each weekend - I have fun. When I am at the office working with 20 different people under a tight deadline - I have fun. I do EVERYTHING in a way that is FUN to ME."
    How do you make grocery shopping or mowing the garden fun? Can you describe your method of achieving that? I hope this isn't an impossibly deep question (if you have never observed how you do this)


    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    +1,000 - Perfectly stated.
    So you say scatteredness is a defining feature of 7? It just doesn't have to be mental, can be physical experiences instead?


    This is great. For years I was emotionally under-developed, and I attributed most of that to being an ESTP. Now that you point out the facet as such that is 7-related, it makes huge amounts of sense. In my case I had two emotional deficiencies, ESTP, and 7 -
    How do you relate uncertainties with being emotionally under-developed? What do you mean by the latter?


    Yes, absolutely. Control is an illusion, but we feel better when we identify objectives that will be satisfying to achieve, and then plot a course to accomplish them. This does not create control, it creates a sensation of "comfort."
    Why do you call control an illusion? Can you elaborate?

    Fighting (or going for the goal), I do not associate that with comfort, I associate it with feeling in control. How do you relate it to comfort?


    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    The way I understand 7 in general is "more more more". It runs - quite literally - on the fear of deprivation. At its simplest origin it could be understood to be derived from the fear of hunger and thirst. e7 is the self-protection pattern which runs from "not having access to" and celebrates the self as expansiveness, variety, novelty, and spontaneity, mistaking the inability to acquire "more" as a restriction of self. The process of acquisition makes the 7 feel comforted, easing the fear of deprivation for just a moment. But it doesn't work, because the fear of deprivation is something that has to be settled from within, just like all of the enneatype fears - once the 7 realizes there are other things out there they might need access to, the drive to acquire comes rushing back. So e7 becomes the glutton, seeking to cure their inner panic through constant acquisition.

    What is acquired could be anything outside the self - a new plan, a song, a theory, a feeling, food, drink, drugs. For many 7s it is experiences - skydiving, bungee jumping, world travel, and so on. It's why 7 and ExxP are so related, because it's all about being open to the external world, rushing towards it and pulling it into the self for fear that you might lose it all otherwise. 7s always are running ahead of themselves, thinking about the next thing to pull into themselves while still in the context of the last. That's part of why the acquisition always fails - because 7's fear drives them to push forward towards "more", they struggle to feel satisfaction with the current acquisition. Which is ironic, because what they are ultimately seeking is satisfaction with the current moment. But the more 7 pushes into the future, the less they have to think about their current satisfaction, so they can live in a state of always making their satisfaction contingent on the promise of the next thing, thus avoiding pain in real time.
    Awesome summary, this too.

    Would you say scatteredness belongs to core of 7 at least at the average health levels? I ask because you talk a lot about the variety aspect and about 7's running ahead of themselves.

    What would happen if an average 7 allowed themselves to feel satisfaction with the current acquisition? How would it make them feel anxious about their inner world? I don't understand that one. I mean, if you immerse yourself in the current moment, in the experience in the moment, would that not keep you outwardly focused enough thus prevent the painful inner shit from coming out?

    I guess what I strongly don't relate to here is avoiding pain by imagining or anticipating the next thing. Pain is pain and I will feel it regardless of whatever escapist thoughts I'd try to think of. What I've seen myself do though is make up a direction in which to go to fix my issues. And it was nice to imagine it. Putting it into practice is also a nice feeling of course. But even just managing to make the plan would be great so in that sense it's avoiding pain? Though these plans are always to do with fixing the whatever issue


    Quote Originally Posted by 21% View Post
    I can relate to this "sin" through the feeling of when you visit a new country or town and you feel this strong craving to see everything within the time limit, and you feel a sense of great loss when you don't have time for that little historical museum or that lesser-known castle and to make yourself feel better you promise yourself that you are definitely coming back some time in this life to visit them all. It's a panicky energy that drives you to want everything just for the sake of having done it, so I think "gluttony" describes it pretty well.
    Lol that honestly just sounds like a pain in the ass from my perspective. When I visit a new country I don't feel compelled to check out everything in this compulsive way. I guess this is just an example but I see what you mean and I don't have that panicky energy thingie... I've seen myself in that state rarely, and even then for maybe a couple of seconds, only seconds as it's not a good feeling mentally and it's not normal either.

  5. #25
    Senior Member Sanjuro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    @Sanjuro - your post is AWESOME.
    Thanks! Seven is the first type I really "got into" and I'm always appalled by the misconceptions that exist.

    Please write a book. Seriously!


    I just might. There's a lot said about cognitive functions and a lot said about enneagram...and when people try to overlap it and correlate it, it just goes wrong. The field really needs someone to use the two systems to catch the bullshit that accretes around each, rather than just spin them off each other.

    Agreed, my mind gets bent out of shape upon reading such things.
    Sadly, it confuses a lot of people. And folks who favor one system tend to look down on the other, with the end result that many beams get crossed and even otherwise credible authors appear not to understand their non-favored system.

    I love the way you stated the above, and would like to put it in my footer, citing you of course.

    You're welcome to do so!


    I was planning on summoning you earlier, actually, but totally forgot your username. Glad you found this place on your own!

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redbone View Post
    So I have a problem immersing myself in an activity, experience, moment and truly enjoying it because my gaze and desire is far-sighted. This doesn't mean I'm not enjoying whatever I'm doing but the thought of "this is going to end, then what?" is always in the back of my head. I can feel upset or even frantic when things are winding down. I try to compensate by looking for very intense experiences so that I can feel "full" or even trying to push energy into things that I should just let die. I have gotten in over my head because of this.
    Hmm I relate to the wish that things shouldn't end. Though it's not always visibly in the back of my head and I don't react too strongly when the experience is ending, though sure it's not great.


    this has been true but it was hard to recognize it for what it was. I only figured this out when I read another description of 7s going through a time where something wonderful was painfully ripped away from them (I think elfboy posted this?). It spoke of having a tranquil childhood period and then that being ripped away from them, similar to what 4s experience but later...a kind of ejection from Paradise. I think the description said being a suckling babe and torn away from the breast. There is a determination that this never, ever happens again.
    Did you have this experience as a kid? Do you remember it?


    My sister is Se-dom 7w6 (ESFP). She is materialistic and immerses herself in physical, material pleasures. Her way is this kind of moment-to-moment, rung-to-rung movement from experience to experience. It's smoother and she seems much more open and present to whatever she's doing. I think she enjoys anticipation but seems to derive less pleasure from this than I do and doesn't seem to suffer from as much feeling let down if things don't play out like she imagined they should be. I'm much more likely to be pretty upset from things not playing out like they did in my imagination. She'd be quicker to find something else to do or affect the situation to make it more pleasing to her. I guess this ability to impact what's going on right now? Not sure how to describe it. I really, really envy that about her.
    Yeah see, a lot of the typical 7-ness is just Ne's version of 7... interesting, that. How did you type your sister as 7?

  7. #27
    Senior Member Sanjuro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redbone View Post
    I kind of think of it being more as "craving" than gluttony. I say that because I experience pleasure from anticipation. Well, as long as I'm sure that I'm going to actually get what I want. I could be simple things such as having a glass on wine later, plans I may have made for the weekend, or a treat that I have hoarded to enjoy by myself. Sometimes the anticipation can be more pleasurable than the act and I may not get much enjoyment from the act because of this. I feel anxious and pretty unhappy when I don't have something to look forward to because my mind can become occupied with that...instead of less pleasant things.
    This is a good description.

    I myself experience what I've bolded. There are times when I will specifically NOT do things simply because anticipating it in the future is more fun than actually starting on it. And yeah, it can be minor things, such as eating a box of cookies. It doesn't have to partying 24/7.

    Quote Originally Posted by valaki View Post
    The bolded means they want variety yeah? I don't always... Only case I want a sort of variety is when I want many of the same kind of thing. Generally I have an inclination to just get deeper into the same thing, repeat it and so on, intensity is nice including intensity of focus.
    This speaks more to "lust" than to "gluttony".

    This one was at ocean moonshine btw I'll quote it: "In the traditional Enneagram, the passion of type Eight is said to be “lust.” This should not be confused with the insistent desire to enjoy the pleasures of the senses, sexual or otherwise, which is more characteristic of the gluttony of type Seven. The lust of type Eight has an expansive quality to it – rather than the need to “take in,” the lust of type Eight manifests in the need to push outwards- to assert the self in order to attain the objects of desire."

    Hmm also, entitlement, it's mentioned for 7 by Naranjo (and elsewhere), what does that exactly mean, assuming 8 doesn't have it?
    For 7s, they can feel "entitled" to things because they were born "brilliant"--multitalented and smarter than most other people. They bank on that, and at unhealthier levels, this can reach incredibly crappy proportions bordering on narcissism in which the 7 is constantly comparing him/herself to others and having to feel like s/he has to (and does) come out "better" than everyone.

    So the entitlement is based on this sense.

    I think 8s can be entitled, too, but it's less obvious as they view life as struggle and are willing to get down and dirty more easily than a core 7. Whatever entitlement they have is less likely to be based on their own mental brilliance.

    I'm not sure how opposite preferences come up here? That's Si to Se in my case.
    Ah, well you mentioned that thing about grandiose fantasies and how that might make you feel literally unwell because your mind doesn't focus that way. I thought that might be cognitive rather than a core 7 vs core 8 concern.

    Can you explain more about this uncertainty in the inner world? I didn't understand that. Well in general I'm not sure I understand what the 7's mind is like when not occupied. What exactly is so terrible about boredom? Any 7's here who can describe that?
    I'm not a core 7, so it's difficult. I'll leave that to @Halla74 whose posts on this topic have been completely excellent.

    Right, though sometimes one has to wonder when the two seem to overlap so completely. In some cases.
    I think there are probably correlations. But, Etypes also show up using cognitive functions you might not expect.

    The way Jung describes Te-doms for instance correlates almost identically with type 1. Yet there are also Te-dom 3s, 6s, and 8s, and these types make that work for them. It's possible that descriptions of cognitive functions have also been biased by the type that most frequently uses is.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanjuro View Post
    There are times when I will specifically NOT do things simply because anticipating it in the future is more fun than actually starting on it.
    Happened to me too, that I imagined it'll be great doing something (note, this is never simply an experience, but some project to get done, goal related things), and I didn't start on it for a while because... oh no idea why :p

    The imagination part would last a few seconds for these cases.


    This speaks more to "lust" than to "gluttony".
    Ah, okay. Btw, I can do this both in a physical sense and in a mental sense. Physical: doing stuff, getting stuff, or just enjoying whatever, feeling very satisfied too in the process and/or as a result. Mental aspect: deeply analysing a topic that interests me, I can get enjoyment out of that too, it's different than physical things of course, but the point of it is still focus, intenseness etc. What's that, then?


    For 7s, they can feel "entitled" to things because they were born "brilliant"--multitalented and smarter than most other people. They bank on that, and at unhealthier levels, this can reach incredibly crappy proportions bordering on narcissism in which the 7 is constantly comparing him/herself to others and having to feel like s/he has to (and does) come out "better" than everyone.

    So the entitlement is based on this sense.

    I think 8s can be entitled, too, but it's less obvious as they view life as struggle and are willing to get down and dirty more easily than a core 7. Whatever entitlement they have is less likely to be based on their own mental brilliance.
    Oh if entitlement means justifying why I should have something, then no I don't do this at all. I simply don't justify it Do 7's need to justify?

    I do think of myself as smarter than most but that's based on objective criteria. It does give me confidence. Otoh my strong will also has me confident and I think I focus on this aspect more, though I wouldn't know if this is type related.

    What I didn't understand here is how the topic of struggle and getting down&dirty is related, in terms of making entitlement less obvious. Explain a bit more ??

    Another q; when the narcissist 7 compares themselves to others, do they just try to see themselves better than others in imagination? Or do they get actively competitive or something? Doesn't make a lot of sense atm


    Ah, well you mentioned that thing about grandiose fantasies and how that might make you feel literally unwell because your mind doesn't focus that way. I thought that might be cognitive rather than a core 7 vs core 8 concern.
    Oh yeah, it might be Se because that sort of stuff belongs to daydreaming as far as I'm concerned and yeah I don't do daydreaming as it just takes focus away from what I like to focus on, stuff that's real.


    I'm not a core 7, so it's difficult. I'll leave that to @Halla74 whose posts on this topic have been completely excellent.
    OK no problem I'll wait for his explanation :p


    It's possible that descriptions of cognitive functions have also been biased by the type that most frequently uses is.
    That's a good point.

  9. #29
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redbone View Post
    So I have a problem immersing myself in an activity, experience, moment and truly enjoying it because my gaze and desire is far-sighted. This doesn't mean I'm not enjoying whatever I'm doing but the thought of "this is going to end, then what?" is always in the back of my head. I can feel upset or even frantic when things are winding down. I try to compensate by looking for very intense experiences so that I can feel "full" or even trying to push energy into things that I should just let die. I have gotten in over my head because of this.
    Really interesting, Redbone. I often feel an upsetness and "hollowness" at the end of a very engaging experience. I first realized how powerful the feeling was when I'd get into my car after parties or when leaving home or school and just crying because I felt so empty. I don't share the frantic feelings - I guess e6 slows my tempo down enough - and I don't think I try to compensate with intensity for the most part, but (and I don't know if this is so/sx related) I do feel so much better about things when I have the next thing in line or if I am with someone. Like it'll be so much easier for me to go home if I know I'm going to see the people in class the next day. I love going to parties with my boyfriend now because we go, it's big and exciting and stimulating, and we can leave and it's comforting but there's no "bottom falling out" feeling like there used to be because I'm going home with him and I have a companion to engage with and someone to curl up with at night. So the enjoyment never really ends, it just changes.

    @skylights , this has been true but it was hard to recognize it for what it was. I only figured this out when I read another description of 7s going through a time where something wonderful was painfully ripped away from them (I think elfboy posted this?). It spoke of having a tranquil childhood period and then that being ripped away from them, similar to what 4s experience but later...a kind of ejection from Paradise. I think the description said being a suckling babe and torn away from the breast. There is a determination that this never, ever happens again.
    How sad

    Quote Originally Posted by valaki View Post
    Awesome summary, this too.
    Thank you valaki

    Would you say scatteredness belongs to core of 7 at least at the average health levels? I ask because you talk a lot about the variety aspect and about 7's running ahead of themselves.
    Yes, definitely. I think it can be a strength when wielded with awareness. It's a very expansive and varied energy. Always pushing further, going beyond boundaries, constantly recombining, riding on the crest of the wave.

    What would happen if an average 7 allowed themselves to feel satisfaction with the current acquisition? How would it make them feel anxious about their inner world? I don't understand that one. I mean, if you immerse yourself in the current moment, in the experience in the moment, would that not keep you outwardly focused enough thus prevent the painful inner shit from coming out?
    Ah. I was probably being confusing by using internal and external, perhaps a better distinction would be "future" and "present". Immersing in the present moment requires being in touch with one's present self, as well - exactly what one is at the moment. The 7 has to stop running away into the future world and come to terms with the present world. It's hard for the 7 to trust that because they see limitations in the present world and fear them, while the future has no limitations. The 7 who starts focusing on the present might at first feel panic because of the perceived lack of possibility, but will eventually begin to understand that the only thing that really ever has existed is the present.

    But I do think this will be different for a Se dom than Ne dom, as others have been saying. My description is probably unintentionally biased towards Ne-7. I think of my ESTP 7w8 sx/so friend and I think she sort of lives her version of this process by creating huge fun explosions of activity wherever she goes. She's always gearing everyone up for the next big thing, getting everyone more drunk, getting people to agree to do more things with her, pulling more people in on her adventures. In college if the party wound down or if I went to class she'd go find someone else to party with or she'd go do a killer workout at the gym or she'd go on a 7 mile run or she'd watch TV with her whole suite of neighbors. It was always go-go-go with her, very grounded and tangible but always about constant movement, never stopping.

    I guess what I strongly don't relate to here is avoiding pain by imagining or anticipating the next thing. Pain is pain and I will feel it regardless of whatever escapist thoughts I'd try to think of. What I've seen myself do though is make up a direction in which to go to fix my issues. And it was nice to imagine it. Putting it into practice is also a nice feeling of course. But even just managing to make the plan would be great so in that sense it's avoiding pain? Though these plans are always to do with fixing the whatever issue
    Well, I think that would sort of depend on how you go about planning. As a Ne-dom w7, I totally "spin my wheels" in planning sometimes. The plan becomes enjoyable because it's all about this ideal version of the future where everything is possible, and while I'm lost in the plan I don't think about the present mess or how difficult things may actually be. An example - I just started post-bac classes at a new university, and I missed the spring registration deadline last semester because I didn't realize how soon it would be (my old university's registration dates were much later in the semester). I tried not to think about the reality of it and constructed a plan to get myself into the classes I wanted, speaking to people, pulling strings, filling out forms, etc. Lots of forward movement but not really addressing the core of me needing to be better about learning the university's calendar and policies. And that's a sort of 7 thing to do. Push-push-push and skate over the top of things. Ignore the festering reality while dreaming about a brighter future. Distract yourself with more fun things so you don't have to deal with how you might be boxed in (that strikes me as particularly 6/7-7/6 whereas 7/8-8/7 would probably be more about breaking the boxes). Hopefully that's a pretty decent example. Again, I might be 6-biased, but I think that's a fairly true one.

    Lol that honestly just sounds like a pain in the ass from my perspective. When I visit a new country I don't feel compelled to check out everything in this compulsive way. I guess this is just an example but I see what you mean and I don't have that panicky energy thingie... I've seen myself in that state rarely, and even then for maybe a couple of seconds, only seconds as it's not a good feeling mentally and it's not normal either.
    I get it. It's not really a pain for me, just a little sad knowing you won't get to see everything, at least not in this lifetime (note w7 coping mechanism of "never say never")

    Ya know, it makes me think of The Lion King.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Circle of Life
    From the day we arrive on the planet
    And blinking, step into the sun
    There is more to be seen
    Than can ever be seen;
    More to do
    Than can ever be done.

    There's far too much
    To take in here,
    More to find
    Than can ever be found

    But the sun rolling high
    Through the sapphire sky
    Keeps great and small
    On the endless round...

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    Quote Originally Posted by valaki View Post
    Ah, okay. Btw, I can do this both in a physical sense and in a mental sense. Physical: doing stuff, getting stuff, or just enjoying whatever, feeling very satisfied too in the process and/or as a result. Mental aspect: deeply analysing a topic that interests me, I can get enjoyment out of that too, it's different than physical things of course, but the point of it is still focus, intenseness etc. What's that, then?
    Sounds like a reasonably intelligent 8w7 in my own opinion.

    Oh if entitlement means justifying why I should have something, then no I don't do this at all. I simply don't justify it Do 7's need to justify?
    They don't need to justify so much--possibly, because they do have that 1 connection--but for the most part, they feel they're already justified simply for being themselves.

    I do think of myself as smarter than most but that's based on objective criteria. It does give me confidence. Otoh my strong will also has me confident and I think I focus on this aspect more, though I wouldn't know if this is type related.
    Does more of your ego rest on your sense of "smartness" or "willpower"? I think that'll be the difference between 7 and 8. Sevens are a mental type and primarily focus on that aspect. Eights are a body type and their sense of confidence is more about will and/or physicality.

    What I didn't understand here is how the topic of struggle and getting down&dirty is related, in terms of making entitlement less obvious. Explain a bit more ??
    I mean 8s will put up an all out struggle, and 7s often move onto something else rather than get down and dirty. They're more inclined to see discomfort and difficulty as being indicative of a problem, rather than something to be surmounted.

    Another q; when the narcissist 7 compares themselves to others, do they just try to see themselves better than others in imagination? Or do they get actively competitive or something? Doesn't make a lot of sense atm
    I think it's just a mental comparison and they have to have a one-up on others. "I can still play this piece better than anyone else in the room". And their ego rests on that--that they have more talent than others. And it's inherent talent--they don't like to struggle to acquire their talents so they tend to bank on their ability to learn the basics quickly.

    I think they could be competitive, but more likely they'd just move on to something they are better at if they come up feeling short in comparison to others.

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