[Other/Multiple Enneatypes] Differences between 3 and 8

[Azure Flame]

I have a tritype of 8-3-7

My 7 tendencies are obvious to me, and not hard to get under control. However my 8 and 3 tendencies seem to be intertwined at times.

Inside of me is a child that I protect from being abused. But as far as I can tell this is applicable to many personality types.

I ignore my emotions and suffering in the way 8's have been described. However, my method for doing this is to dissociate from my emotions entirely. Its almost as if I bring all fights up into the clouds, far away, to distract from the child that's standing down on ground level. I stop feeling all things when I fight, except intensity and aggression.

Its said that E3's become disingenuine because their genuine selves are not appreciated enough. I feel similar to this. I feel like all my life I was too humble, too honest, too genuine, and its seemingly only gotten me fucked over by those who lie. This causes great anger within me, and when I see this behavior in other people, I want to ruin their lives.

My avatar illustrates how i often feel when I'm around strangers. I feel like a husk. People attack me and my defense mechanism is to simply ignore it. This often makes them angrier. Yet at the same time, this also makes me extremely difficult to read. I delete the human inside, and people cannot judge or understand me and become reliant solely on what I tell them, which in most cases is nothing. I become very silent around strangers. However if I mark you as a threat, I very obviously show this in my eyes with looks of hostility.

So, what are your thoughts on the differences between 3 and 8? Is there an easy way of telling the two apart? My body seems to do whatever it wants to regardless what I think is going on. I'm very conscious of my actions, but not the motivations for them.

 

[valaki]

I have a tritype of 8-3-7

Cool crazy tritype ;p

My 7 tendencies are obvious to me, and not hard to get under control.

I'm curious, what does this mean exactly, what kind of stuff is the 7 and how do you get it under control?

However my 8 and 3 tendencies seem to be intertwined at times.

Hmm I guess you mean that emotionally? How is your approach/attitude to success?

I ignore my emotions and suffering in the way 8's have been described. However, my method for doing this is to dissociate from my emotions entirely. Its almost as if I bring all fights up into the clouds, far away, to distract from the child that's standing down on ground level. I stop feeling all things when I fight, except intensity and aggression.

After the fight, do you get in touch with other emotions again?

Its said that E3's become disingenuine because their genuine selves are not appreciated enough. I feel similar to this. I feel like all my life I was too humble, too honest, too genuine, and its seemingly only gotten me fucked over by those who lie.

Would you mind talking about this in a bit more detail?

Btw this doesn't sound too 3-ish to me at this point unless by "getting fucked over" you meant that you got no appreciation. So, let me know if I interpret this right or now.

My avatar illustrates how i often feel when I'm around strangers. I feel like a husk. People attack me and my defense mechanism is to simply ignore it. This often makes them angrier. Yet at the same time, this also makes me extremely difficult to read. I delete the human inside, and people cannot judge or understand me and become reliant solely on what I tell them, which in most cases is nothing. I become very silent around strangers. However if I mark you as a threat, I very obviously show this in my eyes with looks of hostility.

I dunno but if all you do is hold yourself back, keep silent, that doesn't sound like an active effort at building an image like a 3 does in an adaptable way.

Btw are you comfortable doing this?

So, what are your thoughts on the differences between 3 and 8? Is there an easy way of telling the two apart? My body seems to do whatever it wants to regardless what I think is going on. I'm very conscious of my actions, but not the motivations for them.

3 is an image type, goes by external standards more, needs admiration. 8 is more independent in this sense.

3 is in attachment group, while 8 is in rejection group: http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/articles/NArtObRel.asp#.UtkomdJdXAw

3 is in competency group, 8 is in the reactive/emotional intensity group: http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/harmonics.asp#.Utkoz9JdXAw

Also 3 vs 8: http://pstypes.blogspot.hu/search/label/Misidentifications

 

[Azure Flame]

Cool crazy tritype ;p

I'm curious, what does this mean exactly, what kind of stuff is the 7 and how do you get it under control?

Hmm I guess you mean that emotionally? How is your approach/attitude to success?

After the fight, do you get in touch with other emotions again?

yes and no. Frustration is dispersed.

Would you mind talking about this in a bit more detail?

Btw this doesn't sound too 3-ish to me at this point unless by "getting fucked over" you meant that you got no appreciation. So, let me know if I interpret this right or now.

No I get fucked over because people lie and get their way when I've been too genuine and real.

I dunno but if all you do is hold yourself back, keep silent, that doesn't sound like an active effort at building an image like a 3 does in an adaptable way.

Btw are you comfortable doing this?

not entirely comfortable. I'd rather be loud obnoxious self in all situations. I can do it but I start to go crazy if it goes on for too long. I start to feel bottled up.

3 is an image type, goes by external standards more, needs admiration. 8 is more independent in this sense.

3 is in attachment group, while 8 is in rejection group: http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/articles/NArtObRel.asp#.UtkomdJdXAw

3 is in competency group, 8 is in the reactive/emotional intensity group: http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/harmonics.asp#.Utkoz9JdXAw

Also 3 vs 8: http://pstypes.blogspot.hu/search/label/Misidentifications

hmm. Well you make it sound very cut and dry.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

I had a thread called the "Ice man and the Child" that you might want to have a look at.

It's way back in the archives from when I first joined though I think.

 

[valaki]

yes and no. Frustration is dispersed.

How about other emotions then?

No I get fucked over because people lie and get their way when I've been too genuine and real.

Ah I see.. mind talking about some real life examples?

not entirely comfortable. I'd rather be loud obnoxious self in all situations. I can do it but I start to go crazy if it goes on for too long. I start to feel bottled up.

But what happens if you allow yourself to be your loud obnoxious self?

hmm. Well you make it sound very cut and dry.

Did the - very - short summary or the links help?

If you answer this question "How is your approach/attitude to success?", that might also help.


And when I was asking about 7, that was just out of curiosity because I've been wondering about 7 vs 8 myself. So I wondered what you meant by the 7 stuff when I asked: "what kind of stuff is the 7 and how do you get it under control?"

 

[valaki]

I had a thread called the "Ice man and the Child" that you might want to have a look at.

It's way back in the archives from when I first joined though I think.

This one right?

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Yes.

It really takes me back reading it.

 

[Azure Flame]

Yes.

It really takes me back reading it.

oh cool so you identify sorta with what I talk about. Except I'm not an ice man, I'm more of a... Idunno, some elemental entity. A cold soul-less elemental being masking a weak soul underneath. Maybe I am an ice man. Idunno I'm kinda like this protoss archon:

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

I've been able to stop dividing the parts of my personality as starkly as I used to (and you still do).

It's worked a lot better to combine the cold ice man side, the social side, and some of the hidden child side.

 

[badger055]

8s are the ones with the child inside. 3s wear masks. A 3's image is their identity. They are the ones with the fear of being empty inside.

Threes stand to gain the most attention and success from the society, but also end up among its greatest victims—estranged from their own heart’s desire, empty, and emotionally isolated, while never knowing what it is they are doing wrong.

Harvey from the show suits is a 387 I think.

 

[valaki]

Harvey from the show suits is a 387 I think.

Yeah I agree, I was always pretty sure he was a 3. How about Mike Ross?

I liked your summary 8 vs 3 here too

 

[valaki]

I've been able to stop dividing the parts of my personality as starkly as I used to (and you still do).

It's worked a lot better to combine the cold ice man side, the social side, and some of the hidden child side.

How did you do that?

 

[valaki]

[MENTION=10984]Azure Flame[/MENTION]

Did I ask too many questions here or what?

 

[entpersonal]

3 - status, assertive, competent
8 - power, assertive, reactive

 

[badger055]

Yeah I agree, I was always pretty sure he was a 3. How about Mike Ross?

I liked your summary 8 vs 3 here too

ENTP 782 probably.

 

[VagrantFarce]

A few random thoughts:

8s are instinctual - it's all about power, anger, conflict, stance, presence, energy and what to do with it
3s are receptive - it's all about identification, admiration, success, dishonesty

3s are deceptive where 8s are honest. A 3 is out of touch with his true feelings, an 8 wears them on his sleeve.
3s are manufactured, 8s are warts 'n all
3s are composed, 8s are angry

 

[garbage]

3s are more calculating, for good or for bad. With 8s, what you see is what you get. Yeah?

 

[valaki]

3 - status, assertive, competent
8 - power, assertive, reactive

How would you elaborate on status vs power?

A few random thoughts:

8s are instinctual - it's all about power, anger, conflict, stance, presence, energy and what to do with it
3s are receptive - it's all about identification, admiration, success, dishonesty

3s are deceptive where 8s are honest. A 3 is out of touch with his true feelings, an 8 wears them on his sleeve.
3s are manufactured, 8s are warts 'n all
3s are composed, 8s are angry

As for the bolded: deceit is the vice of the 3, why not mention the vice of the 8 for comparison instead of taking a negative trait of 3 and contrasting it with a generally positive trait of 8?

Btw I'm sure you didn't mean 8's wear every emotion of theirs on their sleeves. Anger, sure...

Hmm I read 3's can also be angry but they can and will control expression of it more, according to goals.

What kind of stance did you mean about 8's?

 

[valaki]

I'd like to add some more contribution on the 3 vs 8 comparison... Attitude to success vs failure is probably different. But it would be nice if someone who's more experienced with enneagram would elaborate on the difference.

 

[small.wonder]

[MENTION=20622]valaki[/MENTION] To correct that comparison so it contains both negative words but still maintain the essence of what [MENTION=5632]VagrantFarce[/MENTION] was going for (which I agree with), I'd say this:

3's are deceptive/polished, 8's are blunt/vulgar.

To the O.P. I've made a study of 8 and the types that commonly mistype as such (3, cp 6, 7w8). I find the main differences between 3 and 8 can be found in the already aforementioned links. That said, I think the main points are:

- Image: 3's are very aware of this and can change it to suit their needs, environment, success rate. They desire their image to match that of their culture's desires. 3's I have known are very conscious about their physical presentation and it's fitting with cultural ideals (slightly less for a wing 4 than wing 2). 8 on the other hand is much more individual, and presents the self however they see fit, regardless of the opinions of others. They like what they like, and public opinion matters not. 3's need praise from others, 8's could care less (and in my experience, don't even notice).

- Heart vs. Gut: 3 is a heart type and thus desires the love of others-- they feel that in order to be loved, they must be successful/be a winner. Conversely, 8 is a gut or instinctive type, they act on impulse and live in almost "survival" mode.

- Independence vs. Social: 3 is one of the most extroverted Enneagram types, their image and success relies on social community. 3 tends to be the "showman", entertaining and impressing others with their charm and achievements. 8's on the other hand are more solitary creatures, they can of course be social and extroverted, but independence from the control of others is one of their main ideals. 3's schmooze and flatter, 8's merely challenge and push others buttons.

[MENTION=20622]valaki[/MENTION] In regards to your question about their attitudes toward success and failure, I believe 3 and 8 attitudes are similar but their motivations are very different. 3 dislikes/fears failure and strives for success to attain love from others (they believe they must be successful to be loved), this is (as aforementioned) why they are in the heart type group. 8 on the other hand desires success and fears failure because they literally believe the entire universe is on their shoulders. It's a control/power thing that stems from mistrust of others (or the competence/ability of others to do what needs done). 8's desire success so they can attain the power to remain always independent and self sustaining.

I think it's also important to note that it is far more likely for a 3 to mistype as an 8 than visa versa, mainly because 8 is among the three least common types (and 3 is one of the more common).

I hope that helps.