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Thread: The e4 Instincts' Relationships to Shame and Envy

  1. #31
    darkened dreams Array labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Apr 2007
    4 sx/sp
    INFp None


    I struggle with shame, but feel almost no envy. I feel a lot of external pressure in the world that I can't live up to, and I struggle to make sense of the harmful nature of other people, so it is easy for that to trigger feelings of shame. I see a very high correlation between envy and harmful behaviors. It makes it difficult to feel envy because I can see that people with more success have more pressure and deal with envious people who are harmful by nature. I can see the bad with the good, and so I wish them luck dealing with both in their life, and remain thankful I have found ways to limit it in my own life.
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  2. #32
    4x9 Array cascadeco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    4 so/sp


    I relate quite a bit to the so-dom elements of Shame in a 4. With the exception of vocalizing a lot of it; I tend to keep most of it in, because, drumroll, I am ashamed for feeling this way and don't want to force other people to hear about it. Also, I have a pretty good element of 'this too shall pass' in me now, so know a lot of this stuff is either very temporary or I just know on some level it's not something I need or want to have a hangup about -- i.e. I can better address this stuff now vs years ago.

    I think that this is an area I've worked on a lot through the past 15 years or so, though, so I don't think it's as chronically of an issue as it used to be.

    @OrangeAppled referenced Proust as an archetypal example of an so-dom 4, and I'm in the process of reading 'In Search of Lost Time', and I have to admit I too-easily recognize his way of thinking/ neuroses / hangups / preoccupations -- it's embarrassing to read parts of it because I'm like... omg... I'm not the only one who does that? Someone actually put this in writing? How appalling!

    But yeah, prior to reading descriptions, I don't know that I would have had a good understanding of 'shame' - I wouldn't have labelled what I am prone to experience as that. I do however recognize the envy elements in the form of 'why doesn't my life look like that' or 'why does he/she have x, y, or z and I don't', 'something's wrong with me', etc etc; it's something I will at this point recalibrate fairly quickly, but if I'm having a really low day the thoughts might linger a bit more.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  3. #33
    Paragon Gone Wrong Array OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Mar 2009
    4w5 sp/sx
    IEI Ni


    Quote Originally Posted by Aurora James View Post
    SX: "How dare everyone else be happy when I'm so deprived of joy!?" (Passionate Envy)
    SO: "Why can't I be happy like everyone else is? There must be something wrong with me!" (Shame)
    SP: "I wish I could be happy like everyone else..." (Wistful Envy)
    I missed this the first time....
    I think it's pretty good, but I think sp is less wistful (unless that is sp/so), and more like, "Happiness is dull anyway, so I will create some other meaning." SP is the counter-envy 4 and the most masochistic, so in a sense they can seem "anti-happy", taking seeming pleasure in misery. They tend to reject envy on the surface and can self-sabotage their own well-being and/or fulfillment of their own needs/desires as a way of doing so.
    "Charlotte sometimes dreams a wall around herself. But it's always with love - So much love it looks like everything else. Charlotte Sometimes - So far away, glass sealed and pretty." - The Cure

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx - 451| RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive

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