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Thread: Ask a CP6...

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    Rainy Day Woman Array MDP2525's Avatar
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    Default Ask a CP6...

    Based on another thread, I thought this might be a good idea to explain the often contradictory nature and thought patterns of counter-phobic 6's.

    Having to delve deep into finding out about my type (after repeated test results of e8, e5 and e7 - neither being consistent) and learning the driving force behind a lot of my actions has helped me get passed a lot of the negative behavior and focus more on using my energy toward important matters.

    I'm no expert. I can only give my perspective for my own experiences. Ask away!
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    Member Array CatBalou's Avatar
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    I'm new to the enneagram. I've just worked out I'm a 6 and I haven't fully got the instinctual variants worked out yet. I know I can be counter-phobic under a lot of stress, but mainly I'm pretty phobic. So, CP6, just how counter-phobic are you?

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    Rainy Day Woman Array MDP2525's Avatar
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    Hi. @CatBalou.

    If you aren't sure if you are a CP6 or phobic ask yourself, "what are you afraid of?" If you have to think about it and can't connect that feeling to an action, then you might be CP6. CP6's are generally unaware that fear is their driving force and often would be in denial of this if confronted. (I had a difficult time accepting it. Even when testimonials online hit me like a ton of bricks).

    Being counter-phobic is the mindset you have for your decisions. It's how you approach life. It's a default. However, it can be exacerbated with increased anxiety. Sixes can show both phobic and CP impulses. Generally, they reside on one side of the other. Fight or flight.

    I once read (and I don't remember the link or page unfortunately) that CP6's when asked to introspect and describe "fear" will have difficultly coming up with an answer. For me, that was spot on. Even in my worst memories, when I most assuredly felt fear - I couldn't connect to it. I never remembered feeling fear.

    I'm not an enneagram expert, so I can't answer for whether there is a predominance of counter phobia in sx verses sp or so and please, any other readers, interject freely! @skylights @Z Buck McFate

    As for how CP I am? I also have a blog. There is probably a wealth of info there. :/
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    HopelessSituationWarrior Array Osprey's Avatar
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    As a possible counterphobic 5w6... this thread interest me a great deal.

    CP6s, do you prefer someone to talk about you in front of you, or behind your back?
    Forget the dead you've left; they will not follow you.
    The vagabond who is rapping at your door, is standing in the clothes you once wore.

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    i love Array skylights's Avatar
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    Good thread idea. This will be excellent to read.

    Quote Originally Posted by MDP2525 View Post
    I'm not an enneagram expert, so I can't answer for whether there is a predominance of counter phobia in sx verses sp or so and please, any other readers, interject freely! @skylights @Z Buck McFate
    My guess, based on what I have read both from personal experiences of others and theories thus far, is that the relative order from most to least likely to be CP would be something like sx/sp; sx/so; sp/sx; so/sx; sp/so; so/sp.

    It would make sense that sx-first would correlate with a higher likelihood of CP, because counterphobia and conflict/intensity do tend to go hand-in-hand. I feel like so will probably lessen the likelihood of being CP, because it increases the tendency to perceive and work within systems. And of course sx-last typically deprioritizes "raw" exchange. The ones in the middle I think would be the most likely to flip-flop between the two. As so/sx I am mostly phobic but I thought I was more CP at first because I do have my moments, lol.

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    Moving to the BVI Array highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDP2525 View Post
    CP6's are generally unaware that fear is their driving force and often would be in denial of this if confronted. (I had a difficult time accepting it. Even when testimonials online hit me like a ton of bricks).
    When I first learned that fear was a driving force, I was pretty disbelieving. It seemed ludicrous even. However, on further analysis and consideration, I realized it was correct. So yes, what you are saying absolutely resonates with me.

    Quote Originally Posted by CatBalou View Post
    CP6s, do you prefer someone to talk about you in front of you, or behind your back?
    Neither. If you're going to do it though, do it to my face and do it privately.

    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    It would make sense that sx-first would correlate with a higher likelihood of CP, because counterphobia and conflict/intensity do tend to go hand-in-hand.
    That's correct. Sx first absolutely relates to counter-phobic. I think it's a spectrum though. Nobody is completely phobic or counter-phobic. You shift from one to another.

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    Rainy Day Woman Array MDP2525's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    As a possible counterphobic 5w6... this thread interest me a great deal.

    CP6s, do you prefer someone to talk about you in front of you, or behind your back?
    As @highlander said. In private (very important) and be honest but not angry. We will, if mature, take your opinions very seriously.

    If you talk behind backs then your message will likely get falsified and when the CP6 hears it, it most likely will be given by someone trying to start shit and therefore will sound accusatory/argumentative. This brings out defensiveness ( that = reactive which = CP6 gearing up for a fight ) and that isn't good for problem solving.
    ~Live and learn from fools and from sages~




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    wants Mifune clone minion Array Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Firstly, I’m wondering- I remember reading that counterphobic basically means sx variant dominant. Does this sit right with y’all? There are people who are sx dominant who don’t especially come across as counterphobic to me (it’s not that I’m disagreeing, I’m really just wondering if the more steadfast sx dominants feel counterphobic, even if they don’t outwardly come across that way). eta: I see that skylights and highlander already answered this- but I'd still be interested in hearing other e6's opinions.


    Secondly, now there’s a place where this won’t be a derail, here’s what I wrote in the other thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    I don't know if I agree with this. It seems to me- at least where counterphobic 6 is concerned- that e6s block information they don't like about themselves by seeing the characteristics they don't want to own in other people instead. All people do this, but counterphobic 6s do this with an unparalleled panache. It's very unnerving to deal with an e6 who is on some self-righteous witch-hunt to call people out on things left and right; it's like they're trying to exorcise demons in other people- but the more they do it, the more they keep seeing even more demons all over the place (which will continue to be the case until they get rid of the demons in their own head). I very strongly associate this way of blocking information about oneself- paired with some compulsion to 'point it out' about others- as being e6.
    And I’ll respond to the response again over here (a little differently, since I won’t be derailing in doing so):

    Quote Originally Posted by MDP2525 View Post
    Somewhere along their "crusade" it turns personal. This is where the CP6 goes off the rails. Best intentions turn awry and so forth. CP6 isn't normally going after someone because of self-righteousness. Quite the opposite. CP6's rarely feel better than anyone else. Which is why we are extremely egalitarian.

    How it can look like self-righteousness (which it can) is in us "sticking up" for what we see as a breakdown of fairness. Meaning someone is cheating the system or inversely taking advantage of others. It doesn't matter to the CP6 whether this is purposeful or incidental fallout - until the CP6 investigates further. Then, if the CP6 realizes said person is doing this purposefully - they will zero in and try to oust that person of their credibility.
    As I said in the other thread- I’m not trying to say this is always the case, this is more extreme/under stress behavior- but there is something that looks like self-righteousness to me. That convo started because someone said that e6 doesn’t ‘block information about themselves to protect their ego’, and I was questioning that.

    It *seems* to me like ultimately it’s some kind of fear that the ‘bad guy’ is going to get away with something (help a sister out here, is that even kinda what’s going on?), and on the ‘more stressed’ end of things it’s as if a person starts to feel like some kind of self-contained judge and jury. That seems like self-righteousness to me, because I don’t understand how someone could feel confident impulsively casting stones at the ‘bad guys’ unless they feel morally superior- isn’t there some kind of ‘bad guy’ designation going on in their head and they’re automatically coming from a place of assuming ‘good guy’ for themselves? This is on the far stressed end, to be sure- but that’s true of all the e-types, egos only ever really turn to coping mechanisms (to ‘block information from themselves’) under duress. Under truly egalitarian views though, I would think people wouldn’t feel such a need to cast stones (“let he who has not sinned cast the first stone…”).

    As the Jung saying goes: “Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves.” I personally agree with this, and I think the more people get worked up about someone else’s behavior- the more likely it is an indication that we are somehow ‘blocking information from ourselves to protect our ego’. My whole point here is that I do see a certain tendency in e6 to ‘block information’ (no more or less ultimately than any other type)- and that is to grab a torch and chase after “someone else’s” demon. That’s how it looks from the outside, anyway: the bigger one’s own shadow (and the less willing one is to look directly at that), the more demons they'll see and chase after in other people.

    Skylights mentioned something about there not being a sense of self- which sounds vaguely familiar, like I think I read that before and it might explain some things. There’s so many things that could mean though.

    I'm not even sure there's a question in this, I'm just trying to clarify my comments in that other thread.


    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    In any case, for myself, I've been accused of not seeing myself as the cause before, and it's always because I see problems as being very systemic. I don't typically think in terms of fault, just in terms of poor systems and the underlying reasons systems aren't working as they should. In line with thinking systemically, I tend to explain why I did things in a situation, which apparently can come off as "making excuses". I'm also very aware of and upfront about admitting my flaws, I feel like, so I tend to get frustrated when someone who rarely admits their own flaws blames me for something, even for something that is my fault. It seems like an abuse of fair play.

    I think the example at work I was talking about was an instance of reaction formation on the part of the cp 6. She spent hours at work yelling about how she would never cheat on her husband with another man, which was the rumor that was going around. Months later, we found out that she was essentially emotionally cheating, at least at first, and later physically. As theory goes, she would therefore be attempting to placate her own feelings of anxiety about cheating with her husband by "drowning it out" in her own mind, at least for as long as she could keep crusading against it. It would be in line with the cp 6 desire to quash anxiety, but in this case it's not from an imagined problem, but from a real one.
    I think specifically what I was trying to describe is a little bit different. It sounds like you’re describing someone not willing to take responsibility for themselves being the source of some external conflict- “making excuses” to deflect blame off oneself in others’ eyes. And what I’m getting at is the condition of not being able to see oneself as the source of internal conflict. [I don’t know if that makes sense, but I’m sorta too hurried right now to explain.]
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    i love Array skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    I think specifically what I was trying to describe is a little bit different. It sounds like you’re describing someone not willing to take responsibility for themselves being the source of some external conflict- “making excuses” to deflect blame off oneself in others’ eyes. And what I’m getting at is the condition of not being able to see oneself as the source of internal conflict. [I don’t know if that makes sense, but I’m sorta too hurried right now to explain.
    Ah, okay. I do think you are misunderstanding the internal world of 6s, though. We don't really think in terms of personal morality, save perhaps 6s with a strong 1 fix. The right to cast stones is a situational empowerment and dissipates with restoration of equality. It is not personal and has nothing to do with seeing oneself as the "good guy". It's just about wanting to level the playing field.

    I have to admit I do not see projection as more of a cp 6 sin than any other type's - especially not after listening to my 3w4 friend harp on about people who make themselves look good earlier today - though perhaps it takes on a certain quality in counterphobic 6s that is particularly unappealing to you personally... the "witch hunt" of it, I think. It is just my perception that I feel like I do far more post-processing than pre-processing. But every post-process feeds into the next narrative, so of course ego blocking could result. I just think it tends to happen at a different place for 6s than some other types. Less construction of "this is who I am" and more construction of "this is how I act".

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    Moving to the BVI Array highlander's Avatar
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    I don't know if CP6s are any more likely to engage in projection than anyone else. I can say that most certainly this is an issue that I've had in the past. I learned about the shadow and projection in a management development class a long time ago and after that realized just how much I engaged in it. It was a process over many years to catch myself when I was doing it. So, I try to be very conscious of it. I am also quick to pick up when other people are engaging in this kind of behavior, which I guess is also projection in a way . The person that comes to my mind that is the worst at this - criticizes others for the very things they do themselves and seems oblivious to their own personal engaging in that behavior claims to be an Enneagram 5. I wonder if that 5 is really a 6? Hmmm....

    So, I'm not sure if CP6s do this more than others or not. It seems like I've read this somewhere but I can't recall where or whether or not it was anything authoritiative.

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