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Thread: Ask a CP6...

  1. #61
    philosopher wood nymph Array greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thalassa View Post
    @greenfairy

    Yes, I am a CP 6w7 SX/SO. Yes I waited a lot of tables in my teens and twenties when I wasn't working as an adult entertainer, or trying out desk or sales jobs I absolutely hated and was poorly suited for. I currently do massage and petitioning, and am working towards a hands on career in parks or ecology in the private sector or non-profit. My undergraduate studies concentrated in English Literature.

    I'm actually good at putting on a show, as long as the show stops at regular intervals. By that I mean I can "perform"..but in personal situations I do have a limited or poor filter about my true opinions, but I have peacefully given massages to Trump supporters. But catch me on a train and I might say that the person is a jerk. I can operate within limits well, but usually on short term time tables, which is why being self employed works for me.

    I have a need to vent, likely from performing for clients or customers.

    I have gotten better at seeing both sides of things, I actually make a likable vegan, my roommate is all about eating veggie meals now, I'm quite deft with my manipulation and could likely even marry a reducetarian or vegetarian with positive results. I was at a meeting tonight and could see both sides of a situation when someone a decade older than me was taking it personally. I attribute a lot of this to foruming on MBTI forums, yoga, meditation and talk therapy, because now I'm very aware of my issues, but am likely the most confident I've been since before I began puberty.

    I also wonder how much this has to do with developing tertiary Ni.

    I'm really bad in random personal situations though. That's likely partially Se, and partially being a CP 6w7. It's really hard for me not to tell people to fuck off when it's the equivalent of a surprise.
    I'm just mainly too honest; it never occurs to me to lie or stretch the truth to sell stuff or make the restaurant look good. But I relate to most of the stuff you said too. Isn't yoga and meditation great? I truly think every E-6 needs to do it. It changed both our lives I think. E-6 is all about fear and anxiety and living too much in our heads, so if we consciously quiet our minds and face our anxiety and fear and cultivate inner peace it is a quick path to integration.

    Quote Originally Posted by ZNP-TBA View Post
    Do you guys consider yourselves neurotic?
    Way less than I used to be, but still yes. I am at the point where most of the time I can consciously respond instead of react, I mostly trust myself, and I am better at standing up for myself without being aggressive or passive. The things which trigger me are fewer and less intense.

  2. #62

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    I don't know if I should still be in this thread, since I consider myself phobic now, but now that you bring up phobic sixes...

    Quote Originally Posted by MDP2525 View Post
    I think some differences I see is P6 vs CP6, is the CP6 has *more* of a reliance on self, rather than the over-reliance on external standards dictated by others.

    So, this is why I think they get mistaken for 8's, who go inward to protect vulnerability/rejection. 8's trust their abilities. CP6's trust themselves(ish).

    But it's a baseline trust. It's a self-preservational trust rather than one built on confidence in their abilities. (Unlike 8's)* Uh. "At least I know I have my own back" comes to mind.

    I think the difference in a CP6, is they never really trust themselves but they know they aren't ones enemy. Lol. So, there's a safety in the CP6 own sense of trust in themselves but as opposed to 8's* 6's abilities are always in question because it is measured by others standards, or outside influence, rather than our own. It's why we second guess SO much because we are always watching for changing variables. Or are aware of HOW something will change.

    I think, and correct me here, that P6's seem way calmer in the world than CP6's - provided they can prepare or can access outside support systems to "have their backs" they won't feel out of control. Since the world is set up this way, P6's have many an outlet to "trust in" and won't seem so volitile as a CP6 does.

    A lot of this will overlap to some extent, but I see P6 more outwardly oriented/less self oriented than CP6's. Hmm. What do you see tho?
    I really like the whole post, but especially the bolded part.It can be a bit unnerving to almost never take anything for granted and to be on the lookout for change at any moment. You are never working on solid ground! Especially in relationships, I don't know if I ever quite stop double checking things. I think my awareness of negative trends in an otherwise positive relationship can be very useful though, because I am very quick to bring the problem up and work through it with the person before the relationship changes for the worse. But some people might also find it a bit of a downer, or take the constant troubleshooting personally.

    I also think sixes make great comedians/satirists/social critics for this reason, because they don't take their environment for granted and seize upon inconsistencies and worrying trends.

    As to the phobic vs. counterphobic question, I am not sure. I would say I tend to make lots of allies, but aside from a few people in my life, I don't find I rely on them overly. Even though other people are probably very trustworthy, my reliance upon them is pretty similar to video games where you have to quickly hop from platform to platform before they collapse. It's better than no platform, but I don't take its stability for granted. I see people as trustworthy moment to moment, but I know nothing is certain and that everything changes. That being said, I always try to be very reliable for others, because I know how valuable it is to me.

    I like the counterphobic strategy of taking things into your own hands, but a lot of the ways they carry that out strikes me as misguided. It just doesn't seems strategically prudent to upset potential allies with reactive or even aggressive behaviour. People don't like to feel tested and provoked, so if you are going to test and provoke people, at least do it in an indirect or diplomatic way (jokes help).

    Don't get me wrong, my mind is running away with itself just like yours, I have imaginary falling outs with my friends every now and then, but I am aware that I am being crazy, so I at least try to pretend like I am not freaking out (at first). Why tip your hand until its time to play the card? My go-to strategy to deal with unfamiliar or threatening people is to be puppy dog friendly, combined with self-deprecation. So in a way it's a sort of counterphobic approach of the problem, because I will say very bold things to intimidating people, but it's meant to charm and disarm them. I suppose it is an attempt to win them over to my side, but it is also sort of a show of strength (you don't scare me, look how at ease I am!)

    In terms of my phobic coping I think I still rely mostly on myself: In the workplace, I usually pretend to be more socially naive than I actually am, so ambitious people won't be threatened by me. There is a position at my work a bunch of people fought over, and in the end none of them kept the job more than 6 months, because they all undermined and sabotaged each other. Meanwhile I just stayed friends with everyone and encouraged them to go for the position. And now that the field is clear a year or two later (with all the candidates demoted, fired, or transferred away) silly old Forever_Jung was offered the promotion without even applying for it! It worked out better than I could have hoped for, but honestly, a lot of things end up working out like that for me.

    It's sort of like in "I Claudius" by Robert Graves, where Claudius exaggerates his stammer and his limp, and he ends up outliving all the poisoners and schemers who took him for a feeble dunce.

    I think that's sort of how phobic sixes handle things. You makes friends not enemies, and you always have this abiding awareness that the tallest blade of grass is the one that gets chopped down. You would rather take a backseat, then wear the bullseye on your chest. You want to appear likable and non-threatening, as opposed to strong and independent and "above" help from others.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cloudpatrol View Post

    @Forever_Jung

    What do you recommend a 7 or 9 do in these situations to reassure the 6 that despite being easygoing, a capable and mindful attitude IS still present? What would be effective to say?
    I suppose you could just say that despite being easygoing, you aren't taking things lightly. I probably won't believe you though, because you are laughing at me for being worried. I shouldn't be so hard on the types.

    Come to think of it, it's not that I don't think they are at all capable, they just lack vigilance. I am the sort of person who is constantly anticipating what will happen next: how will things play out, what are the possible threats, how will that person react if x, y or z happens, etc. So I am solving problems (or at least mentally making sure I know where the fire exits are) before they come to a head. These types may take the problems seriously when they come up, but to me, just carelessly letting threats sneak up on you IS the problem. It doesn't matter how capable and serious you are when the threat arrives, if you have been outflanked by enemy forces, you are screwed! Sure I may solve a bunch of extra problems that only exist in my head, but it makes me feel better to be internally prepared for any possible occurrence. If I had been in charge of Rome during the Punic wars, we would have prepared for Hannibal crossing the alps!

    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    ^My posts here are somewhat old (and embarrassing). As I recently said elsewhere around here somewhere, I've come to see CP6 reactivity more like people/trust-OCD. I don't think it's coming from a place of being 'right'/righteous conviction so much as just needing to know.

    It's possible I'm still wrong and in another year I'll be embarrassed again by this post, but .
    Yes, this is much better! I quite like this.

    Even when I am "taking someone down a peg", it's almost for the sake of transparency. I am actually not terribly interested in what's "right" in the usual sense. I always think I am being very helpful when I tell people why Mother Theresa wasn't so great, or how John Lennon beat his wife, so he's probably not an ideal role model. But apparently people don't like it when you criticize their heroes. I personally wouldn't want to believe in something false or build my house on a shaky foundation. I just want to know!

    The worst thing you can give me is a blank slate. I learned to provoke people (humour is the safest way) just to be able to reliably get feedback so I can relax a little. I can deal with anything, just let me know so I can get my footing.

    Resting bitch face people, and placid introverts arouse my suspicions, what are they THINKING!? I try to be indirect about it, so as to not cause social problems, but I am constantly checking with people to make sure "we are okay". Even with very reliable relationships like with my father, I sometimes wonder whether he has finally changed his mind about me. I VERY MUCH enjoy the company of ISJ's for this reason, and actually IJ's in general. They tend to be very cautious and slow to react
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  3. #63
    Senior(ita) Member Array Cloudpatrol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forever_Jung View Post
    I suppose you could just say that despite being easygoing, you aren't taking things lightly. I probably won't believe you though, because you are laughing at me for being worried. I shouldn't be so hard on the types.

    Come to think of it, it's not that I don't think they are at all capable, they just lack vigilance. I am the sort of person who is constantly anticipating what will happen next: how will things play out, what are the possible threats, how will that person react if x, y or z happens, etc. So I am solving problems (or at least mentally making sure I know where the fire exits are) before they come to a head. These types may take the problems seriously when they come up, but to me, just carelessly letting threats sneak up on you IS the problem. It doesn't matter how capable and serious you are when the threat arrives, if you have been outflanked by enemy forces, you are screwed! Sure I may solve a bunch of extra problems that only exist in my head, but it makes me feel better to be internally prepared for any possible occurrence. If I had been in charge of Rome during the Punic wars, we would have prepared for Hannibal crossing the alps!
    Hmmm, yes that helps me gain further understanding. My head and gut are less vigilant but my heart is more so. I think that will help me to reassure my '6's' that while I am easy-going I also value preparation and aforethought. Even lateral 'challenge' thinking

    AND it will help me utilize that aspect of the '6's'...seeking them out for advice in situations that require extra care.

    Thanks for this!
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  4. #64
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Array Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDP2525 View Post
    What do you see tho?
    I agree with some of what you described, but I don't think I'm calmer in the world or appear so. However I am just speaking for myself here.

    My own experiences are of rejecting the impulse of needing external standards to meet or structure to support me as being a problem in itself, because how could I know that the standards of external support I desire are really reliable? What am I basing that on? And so eventually I erode my own comfort, usually to some blowout that destructs the bridge that was supporting me.

    You're dead right about the trusting oneself side.

    I hate stories where the character suddenly has an epiphany of self trust that allows them to overcome their obstacles, if only because I can't relate. I've never felt confident about anything in my life. I pushed forward out of sheer belligerence with myself, to spite the insecurity. Spitting at the sun though that turns out to be.

    The problem is that the void is never ending and I can't just trust things, how can people know without measuring or comparing or testing? Apparently they just know, by fucking magic, and breeze through with anxiety being a narrative moment when they lost faith in themselves (just like those stories) and then they regain it and learn about themselves and move on. For me, life is not that neat, anxiety is something I live and breathe, not something that occasionally acts up on my stage.

    I have to build mantras to cope with it, I take serotonin tablets to (supposedly) lessen the effects. I spend enormous amounts of energy in suppressing my natural reactions to situations in order to survive and hold down a job/s (this often results in physiological problems like stress-induced migraines that make me vomit with pain). I don't want anyone to get too close because i am epitome of high maintainence, despite the easy-going persona I try (and usually fail) to adopt in day to day life. I don't want to hurt the people I like and love.

    I often feel like there is some point of self contact I missed, like a party they forgot to tell me about, and I should have had this brilliant epiphany long ago and moved on. Instead I'm skipping to the same beat and it turns into a furnace heat of self hatred.

    And the truth is this means I'm really quite drawn towards intensity and rawness, because that's what i actually experience, but I hide it partially because of Fe shit and partially because i don't want to leave myself with no support. I've already built an island in my head, I don't need that in my (assumed) reality as well.

    This often means I'm more fight than flight though, which I'm bizarrely proud of. I want to go down fighting when they eventually get me, you know?
    'Consciousness is not simply a sensory-perceptual affair, a matter of mental imagery, as the contents of our mind would have us believe. It is deeply enmeshed with the brain mechanisms that automatically promote action readiness' - Jaak Panksepp

  5. #65
    Rainy Day Woman Array MDP2525's Avatar
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    @Cellmold

    ....I pushed forward out of sheer belligerence with myself, to spite the insecurity. Spitting at the sun though that turns out to be.

    And the truth is this means I'm really quite drawn towards intensity and rawness, because that's what i actually experience....

    I've already built an island in my head, I don't need that in my (assumed) reality as well....

    This often means I'm more fight than flight though, which I'm bizarrely proud of. I want to go down fighting when they eventually get me, you know?
    These phrases stood out to me as something I can relate to personally. Although, I suspect there will be type differences within CP's and how the core motivation is expressed with MBTI, I see the above as something I understand very well and you phrased it in a sort of poetic way. The quotes above hits me in a way I understand but can't put into words. So I won't try!

    I like that you said you are being drawn to intensity and rawness. I think that is accurate because we are intense and raw inside and we know it.

    ----

    @greenfairy asked about working as a server. I worked as a server/bartender/cook/manager collectively for 18 years in the restaurant industry. I got into it because I was 'afraid of people'...I didn't understand them and felt ill-equipped in dealing with them. I didn't understand why I was misunderstood so much. When really, I was super literal. Everyone read into things I didn't say and I wanted to know why....was this me? Or them?

    So, looking back I went toward anxiety, not against. I worked in that field all because of a fear, really. So, the pushing forward out of sheer belligerence is profound. I think CP6's do this without even realizing they do because it puts the fear in a place that will be useful.

    This is a weird thing, but while I learned about people, gained confidence in speaking and dealing with people, conquered my "fear" - It wasn't overall healthy for me. In fact, it was detrimental in a lot of ways. I was constantly irritable, I looked like a perfectionist even though I am not, due to troubleshooting to an nth degree.

    I have mixed feelings about it. On one hand, so much good came of it and on the other....it felt as though I was being the worst version of myself.

    It was bringing out everything negative that my personality encapsulated. It was not a job in which my efforts or gifts had clear lines of success and that was incredibly frustrating.
    It was like being in a terrible, dysfunctional relationship. You keep thinking if only you could just do one more thing differently, the situations would change. So, I got out of that profession.

    When I learned about what being a CP6 meant, I re-evaluated my career and where I fit in it. I quit and instead of feeling compelled toward something else. I decided to ask "What do I need to enjoy a job?" I became a driver for a distribution company, then subsequently promoted. I was on my own, in control of everything in my surroundings. @Thalassa had a good point about self-employment being advantageous to CP6's. I think, at least, it makes a lot of sense toward a happy CP6.
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  6. #66
    philosopher wood nymph Array greenfairy's Avatar
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    @MDP2525 I totally relate to your restaurant experience. I kept trying to give it all I had and get better despite being stressed out every day for several years. Until it became abundantly clear to me that I and waiting tables were not a good fit. The decision basically had to be made for me. I kept trying to become outgoing, even though it scared me, and never succeeded.

    And now my current goal is to be self employed. NYE was the worst night of my life and that night I quit my second to last restaurant job and swore right then and there that I would never be a wage slave again. I would rather run away and do something radical than sacrifice my dignity to some fat cat who thinks he is above me.

  7. #67
    Rainy Day Woman Array MDP2525's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    @MDP2525 I totally relate to your restaurant experience. I kept trying to give it all I had and get better despite being stressed out every day for several years. Until it became abundantly clear to me that I and waiting tables were not a good fit. The decision basically had to be made for me. I kept trying to become outgoing, even though it scared me, and never succeeded.

    And now my current goal is to be self employed. NYE was the worst night of my life and that night I quit my second to last restaurant job and swore right then and there that I would never be a wage slave again. I would rather run away and do something radical than sacrifice my dignity to some fat cat who thinks he is above me.


    NYE is the worst and also Valentines Day, for different reasons. Ugh. Lol

    It is, by far, the most difficult job I have had. It's easy to be terrible at it, but to take pride in it? To strive to do well? It's crazy draining and difficult.

    People think it's just order taking. Pfft. No way. It's selling, adaptation, memory, speed coupled with care, getting triple sat with 4 tops. It's exhilarating to some extent. I once had a 24 top all to myself. Separate checks. All wanting coffee and switching seats once I they had their positions. Insane.

    That aspect I enjoyed a bit. Getting thrown so many things and seeing if you could keep juggling them in the air

    But yeah. Just gets old after a while. Seeing the problems, same people, every six months. That asshole who should have been fired 6 months ago, never is. Or the person who complains every week about the schedule you made. Then gives up the shift they begged you for. That sort of thing. Fuck. That.

    Good for you Good luck!
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  8. #68
    philosopher wood nymph Array greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloudpatrol View Post
    Hmmm, yes that helps me gain further understanding. My head and gut are less vigilant but my heart is more so. I think that will help me to reassure my '6's' that while I am easy-going I also value preparation and aforethought. Even lateral 'challenge' thinking

    AND it will help me utilize that aspect of the '6's'...seeking them out for advice in situations that require extra care.

    Thanks for this!
    Could you elaborate a little more on the heart being vigilant? Being less aware of [my] heart impulses, cultivating a sense of competency in this area I think would help 6's trust themselves more. I am 4 in the heart center, so my emotions drive my consciousness a lot, but it is always filtered through my mental center of ideas and fear.
    http://badges.mypersonality.info/badge/0/24/244970.png

    6w5, 4w3, 1w9 (probably)
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    philosopher wood nymph Array greenfairy's Avatar
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    How many of you do the following: feel like crying, then your immediate reaction is "stop crying! Stop it! Crying is weakness!" and so you stop, but then you consciously think, "No, it's ok to cry, I should just do it and let out the emotion, I should push myself to feel vulnerability and express my pain" so then you try, and...can't cry. And usually end up laughing.

  10. #70
    Rainy Day Woman Array MDP2525's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    How many of you do the following: feel like crying, then your immediate reaction is "stop crying! Stop it! Crying is weakness!" and so you stop, but then you consciously think, "No, it's ok to cry, I should just do it and let out the emotion, I should push myself to feel vulnerability and express my pain" so then you try, and...can't cry. And usually end up laughing.
    Sound CP enough.

    I don't think of crying as weakness anymore.
    I did at one point. When I was younger. Now, it's like, if I do, it's over before it starts because...I don't know. It's not a big deal and it usually means I needed it. I don't like crying in front of people though. Never liked that. Still don't. Privately, I'm at peace with it.
    ~Live and learn from fools and from sages~




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