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Thread: Ask a CP6...

  1. #41
    In Line to the Throne Array Cloudpatrol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDP2525 View Post
    @Cloudpatrol

    As a 4, can you give some insight as to how you see CP6's in relation to your 4ness?

    I enjoyed your metaphor:

    Think of matches and a gas can sitting on a bench.
    You said that a 6 will check the alarms and extinguisher. A CP6 will separate the can and matches. I would say that a 4 would clothe themselves in fire retardant material.


    - I find the 6’s I know are driven more by anxious and problematic thoughts (not to the exclusion of other lovely thoughts of course, my 6 friend is a joy). CP 6’s appear more idealistic with a core motivation of realism and I ‘find myself’ more in that kind of thinking.


    - I can relate to both the 6 and CP 6 ability to determine ‘worst case scenario’s’ very quickly. The difference though is that instead of responding with anxiety, I (usually) will analyze the logical possibilities and either dismiss the thought or immediately form a viable plan of action to implement. Only if I am overly tired or under pressure, will I choose to reside in the ‘worst case place’ and worry. Thankfully, I don’t generally waste much time on worrying as it produces the least enjoyable version of me (blush).


    - I can relate to the CP6 tendency for crusading or taking up a cause. Even as a small child I couldn’t help but be vocal and advocate for anyone I perceived as an underdog. And, I also have experienced the CP6 dynamic of: having more “observational evidence” as the rational for action, rather than verbally expressing why it is justified. Which sometimes leads others to conclude that I am acting on emotion or ideals.


    - Like with CP6, as a 4 I am sometimes not aware that fear is a motivator behind what I do or say. When I AM aware, I understand greatly the CP6 idea of: acknowledging the fear and enjoying the challenge of overcoming it.

    I don’t relate to generalized anxiety/stress but do definitely to the: ‘fight or flight’ mode. I am sometimes shocked when someone perceptive let’s me know that they recognize it IS fear driving my actions. But, upon reflection, I will recognize it to be truth.


    - I relate to fear (for 4 it feels more related to vulnerability than external factors). I also can relate to having a chill, laid-back attitude inside and find it can be at the forefront (except for times when I allow pressure to make me backslide to a more instinctive state).


    - Like CP6, the 4 in me also responds with defensiveness if I feel someone has spoken about me behind my back (especially if their intent gets twisted in multiple communications). Best to speak to me oneself, and I appreciate direct speech even if it includes analysis of my deficits. I will not be defensive if the person approaches me themselves.


    - Have noticed that 6’s can get frustrated or consumed with their own behaviour and that of other’s if they perceive it is unseemly or unfair, and will want to ‘school the person’ in their errors I find that CP 6’s have more sense of self (even if critical towards self), and are more engaged in pursuing understanding in changing their OWN behaviour. I can relate to the latter as well.


    - I have seen what Forever_Jung stated, as present in the 6’s I have had the pleasure of being acquainted with:

    I know this sounds contradictory, but the more trust I put in someone, the more I have to check in to make sure I can still trust them. It's kind of like when sports team get super paranoid when their best players suffer minor injuries.
    I cannot relate to that but I do relate to initially testing/ascertaining trust. Once I feel ‘safe’, it’s decided and I can lavish the person with the rewards without giving further thought to that. Where do you fall with this @MDP2525?
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  2. #42
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    I know this sounds contradictory, but the more trust I put in someone, the more I have to check in to make sure I can still trust them. It's kind of like when sports team get super paranoid when their best players suffer minor injuries.

    I cannot relate to that but I do relate to initially testing/ascertaining trust. Once I feel ‘safe’, it’s decided and I can lavish the person with the rewards without giving further thought to that. Where do you fall with this @MDP2525?
    I understand the above quote. I think of 6's as oscillating fans or sharks. Scanning constantly; always moving in a sub-sensory level. Checking systems. Making sure everything is good until it isn't.

    We are the security guards checking locks and coming back later to do the same hours later.

    We do the same with trust. We keep checking.

    So, there is really no full trust - in the sense of unconditional trust. We can trust but when coming back to that check, we notice the lock was picked on a metaphorical door? We suspend that until we figure things out. Something is wrong. Until it's figured out, narrowed down - anyone is suspect.

    It's why we are known as whistleblowers and can be anti-authoritarians AND just as likely to fight to maintain the status quo.


    It's like a modus operandi. It's normal. It may sound exhaustive but it's not. It's our nature. Lol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDP2525 View Post
    I understand the above quote. I think of 6's as oscillating fans or sharks. Scanning constantly; always moving in a sub-sensory level. Checking systems. Making sure everything is good until it isn't.

    We are the security guards checking locks and coming back later to do the same hours later.

    We do the same with trust. We keep checking.

    So, there is really no full trust - in the sense of unconditional trust. We can trust but when coming back to that check, we notice the lock was picked on a metaphorical door? We suspend that until we figure things out. Something is wrong. Until it's figured out, narrowed down - anyone is suspect.

    It's why we are known as whistleblowers and can be anti-authoritarians AND just as likely to fight to maintain the status quo.


    It's like a modus operandi. It's normal. It may sound exhaustive but it's not. It's our nature. Lol.
    Ok. Super helpful. Love the shark and fan analogy. (Your brain! With the metaphors and naming! Yep, I'm a fan {not the oscillating kind})

    So, I don't relate to what you wrote - but a little. I am not vigilant once someone has gained my trust. It is fairly unconditional with the caveat that my mind is always alert to inconsistencies and will question those if they arise.

    Do personal intimates in your life ever gain unconditional trust (it was this wording in FJ's above post quote that particularly caught my eye: the more trust I put in someone, the more I have to check in to make sure I can still trust them).

    I do admire this variant of what you wrote very much:

    It's why we are known as whistleblowers and can be anti-authoritarians AND just as likely to fight to maintain the status quo.
    I am somewhat perplexed because I thought 6's drew comfort and sense of self from affiliation with organizations and authority? Am I off on that? Or is it that when the organization or authority falls short of what the 6 thought they stood for (even rightly so) that fall-out occurs?
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    I grew up with lots of 6 and 9s, so I ramble quite a bit on these types.

    On the surface, similarities I see between 4 & 6 is reactivity and the line of health towards the image triad (4 => 2 and 6 => 3). I think the the whole counter-vice theory ( like countershame & counterphobia) is actually an extension of the idea of disintegration. In other words, there's some element of posturing involved when insecurities are breached.

    Both types can be emotional or reactive so that's self explanatory. I suppose what differs is the trigger. I see 4 and 6 reactivity involving the disrecpency between themself and those around them.

    -Type 4 is an image type, so it's more how one's inner image falls short of the one they put out. Failure to measure triggers shame. I'm 5-wing bias though, so mirroring or having my image received a certain way isn't a big deal.

    -Type 6 is a head type, so feelings, emotionality, triggers, are dealt with differently compared to image types. In my experience, average to low health 6 can come across as not only unaware of anxiety, but unaware of their feelings. Their feeling is more pronounced when there is a frame of reference, something to get emotionally charged about. They just know they feel this or that way about someone/something. Online I notice a subset of 6s or wing 6s that like to jump on people who they perceive as having a bit of an "ego," like they gotta "put them in their place" or something. From a nurture perspective, I wonder if it's because they grew up with vain parents. 4s or 3s might do something similar but it's usually coming from a place of envy / jealousy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloudpatrol View Post
    I am somewhat perplexed because I thought 6's drew comfort and sense of self from affiliation with organizations and authority? Am I off on that? Or is it that when the organization or authority falls short of what the 6 thought they stood for (even rightly so) that fall-out occurs?
    Not directed at me, but I'd imagine it's a lot like growing up believing in Santa Claus and what he stands for, but later in life finding out he's just some disgusting slob. So yeah, I think you're right. 6s are often linked with cynicism, and I tend to view cynicism as a perversion of idealism. With idealism being some type of attachment style.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloudpatrol View Post
    Ok. Super helpful. Love the shark and fan analogy. (Your brain! With the metaphors and naming! Yep, I'm a fan {not the oscillating kind})
    It is the way I can explain things...in depth. Otherwise, it would just be a pretty simple statement.

    Do personal intimates in your life ever gain unconditional trust (it was this wording in FJ's above post quote that particularly caught my eye: the more trust I put in someone, the more I have to check in to make sure I can still trust them).
    For me, personally? No one gets unconditional trust. There are varying degrees for different people, like say, some I trust with a secret but not to lend money to. I think what FJ said was something I related to when I was much younger. When betrayal/abandonment after trust would be utterly devastating.

    I can't speak for other CP6's, tho.

    I am somewhat perplexed because I thought 6's drew comfort and sense of self from affiliation with organizations and authority? Am I off on that? Or is it that when the organization or authority falls short of what the 6 thought they stood for (even rightly so) that fall-out occurs?
    Similar to what @Duffy said. The Santa Claus thing. A CP6 can drink the Kool-Aid. Then realize it wasn't sweet and turn on the establishment they cherished. I do think the anti-authoritarian bent is generally more CP6 than phobic 6.

    Online I notice a subset of 6s or wing 6s that like to jump on people who they perceive as having a bit of an "ego," like they gotta "put them in their place" or something. From a nurture perspective, I wonder if it's because they grew up with vain parents. 4s or 3s might do something similar but it's usually coming from a place of envy / jealousy.
    This was brought up earlier in the thread, in a slightly different way but it's important for CP6's to realize they can come across this way.

    However, any CP6 would not view it as vanity. At least, this is not the driving motivation - and that is important in understanding CP6's.

    They can definitely be misguided in whatever attempt they pursue, sure....but what I see as "putting someone in their place" usually comes from a place of fighting for a perceived underdog, or possibly a underrepresented counter to the predominant "ego" presented.

    How hard they go after the person? Says a lot about health of the CP6 but...

    It's not vanity or vain parentage but a desire for balance. You were right about a certain idealism and this is how that is presented.
    ~Live and learn from fools and from sages~




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    @greenfairy this might be a better place to discuss if you wanted to add anything to your quote or discuss further

    but I have a lot of qualities of both. I really prefer not to classify myself because I think that is limiting; but if I could be, I would kind of like to know. I think all 6's are both most of the time- that's what makes us a 6, an inherent duality. We're always reacting to ourselves.
    I agree with "reacting to ourselves"
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    philosopher wood nymph Array greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDP2525 View Post
    @greenfairy this might be a better place to discuss if you wanted to add anything to your quote or discuss further



    I agree with "reacting to ourselves"
    Cool. Are you more cp? You seem like you could be.

    Edit: Oh my bad, I didn't notice the title of the thread and that you were the OP bc I thought we were still in the other thread. Good guess then.

    I'm at work, but maybe later tonight I will elaborate. Right now I'm thinking I'm more cp because even though I'm initially afraid of most things I never settle for a phobic response (even if I react that way for a long period of time) if it holds me back from how I want my life to be. I always eventually root out and confront my fears.

    Quote Originally Posted by Osprey View Post
    As a possible counterphobic 5w6... this thread interest me a great deal.

    CP6s, do you prefer someone to talk about you in front of you, or behind your back?
    I always prefer it to my face. I get belligerent if I think someone is being passive-aggressive. Even though I can be. I'm a hypocrite. Someone not discussing a problem with me frustrates me to no end, because it tells me they don't care enough to try to solve it and instead just want to throw negativity at me. I'm paranoid, so I would much rather know someone is thinking something negative than constantly worry about it.

    *I'm not sure I'm mostly counter-phobic. Leaning toward it. Answering the question nonetheless.


    @Z Buck McFate:

    I will freely acknowledge that I frequently feel morally superior. Which is one reason I have decided my gut fix is 1. I feel like there is no point in having morals if you're not going to apply them to yourself and others ---> a judgement of superiority vs. inferiority. If there is anything objectively real about ethics. Why try to be moral if you are never more moral than anyone else? It doesn't make sense. Now I will acknowledge that it's all karma and we all learn the same lessons over the course of all our incarnations, so objectively me being more spiritually and ethically advanced than someone else doesn't mean they are less deserving of love; the ability to love everyone unconditionally simply is what essentially constitutes morality imo.

    Also I pretty much agree with everything you said in the post- but I also agree with @MDP2525.

    I probably engage in knocking people off imaginary pedestals. I don't know. It's a result of me feeling insecure about something and perceiving a threat, or taking something out of context, or just being paranoid. But I have in the past been pretty neurotic. I'm also very good at perceiving slight imbalances of power. So I may have been right; I think it's just that I see things which are real which are destructive, but I fail to see the big picture of their situation, the context, and all the positives.

    I have 2 friends atm with whom I have a serious set of resentments and have acted aggressively towards, and they have a big problem with this, and I am trying to figure out how to handle it. I won't tolerate someone forbidding me to be angry with them; that's abusive. But at the same time I want to be fair and objective and open-minded, and come to the situation with love instead of fear.
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    ^My posts here are somewhat old (and embarrassing). As I recently said elsewhere around here somewhere, I've come to see CP6 reactivity more like people/trust-OCD. I don't think it's coming from a place of being 'right'/righteous conviction so much as just needing to know.

    It's possible I'm still wrong and in another year I'll be embarrassed again by this post, but .
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    You know CP6 is not so bad. Watch The Patriot or Braveheart. Those are good examples.
    I think CP 6's are awesome. If it weren't for them most of the world's injustices would not be fought. It would all fall on 8's and 1's.

    Interesting. My INFP cousin is exactly like this minus the relating to NFJs parts. And I am quite sure she is E-4 and doesn't have a strong 6 fix. The part about having to constantly worry she is going to get butthurt over something I said. But maybe I'm missing some nuances of your overall point. I think a lot of that is Fi is my point.

    About trust. The 6 virtue is faith. I see faith as extending goodwill based on a feeling of connection. Faith is an attitude. Trust is earned, continuously. For me, anyway. I have always thought it entirely reasonable to not fully trust anyone ever; I saw those who did as being foolish future victims. Now I am better at it, but I still require people to continuously reaffirm their loyalty and earn my trust.


    So anyway, after disjointedly replying to various things I had input on, here is my story. I am not really sure how cp or p I am. I have different tendencies in different areas of my life. I have read this is normal. I do resonate with fear very much, and have always been aware of it. But when I get angry it is a totally different thing. I am usually unaware of my fear in this context or any other vulnerable emotion and lash out in an 8ish kind of way (to avoid vulnerability) and also to restore an equal playing field. I very much identify with this motivation. I have been into politics and philosophy my entire life. I have a philosophy degree and consider myself a philosopher; the tritype 641 is that of the philosopher. So I always intellectualize and conceptualize my emotions first. If I can turn my feelings into an idea, that of fair or unfair, respectful or disrespectful, beneficial or harmful (externalizing) I can avoid that vulnerability and feel I have control over it. I fear depression and sadness over all else because then I have lost control (getting better at this by developing my shadow Fi). I have a flight response much of the time, but maybe equally a fight response. It's hard to tell because there is such a separation in myself between the physical and the mental. Mentally I am totally counterphobic. Physically I'm a total coward. Although I do like to push myself out of my comfort zone. If I feel someone could and might physically hurt me, I run away. And I always expect this to be a possibility. But I never let people intimidate me. I am always at first intimidated by people, but then don't accept this, and fight this in myself. Ultimately I see no reason I should fear another person. I see all their weaknesses and insecurities and feel I could take them down if I needed to, if they didn't overpower me physically. Intellectually I have no fear. I question everything. I feel it is doing a service to that thing, because you are making it stronger and allowing it to improve itself. I have been described as stubborn and argumentative my entire life. Arguing is my first defense, aside from avoiding danger, because I feel competent in the mental realm. I would metaphorically and literally hide from someone while yelling at them. A combination of a phobic and cp response probably. I have always been the person who said the things other people were too afraid to say. And I don't respect authority. I will act ingratiating and submissive and placating and all that nonsense to a boss because I am constantly afraid of being fired, but really I don't give a eff and if I get angry I will say anything to anyone. The problem is I usually wait until I get angry and my 1 fix tells me it's valid to voice my feelings and thoughts, unless I am consciously making an effort to push myself out of my comfort zone and take a risk. Sexually I display a strong cp response. I have intimacy issues. I really want it, but it scares the heck out of me (sx/sp or sp/sx). But the more I fear it the more I seek it out. This is the only area in which I have ever tried to have power over another person; I want my partner to want me more than I want them to avoid vulnerability, and to pacify any possible threat. <-- in my unhealthy state.

    So based on all that rambling, what does it look like for me? I can say more or answer any questions. I really feel I am both most of the time. I probably paint a more cp picture because that makes me feel more empowered. But the fact that ultimately I am determined to remove all my fear and not let it hold me back says to me a little more cp. Although sometimes it takes me years of being stuck in a rut and asking myself what I was fearing which caused me to self sabotage, and then making myself root it out and confront it to change.
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