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Thread: Ask a CP6...

  1. #21
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    The thing about ‘restoration of equality’ though- the point I was trying to make is that when some CP6s act like self-contained judge and jury on their own, they actually end up unleveling the playing field. They’ll knock people off of imagined pedestals- which is to say they take people already on a level playing field and take them down a couple notches because of a perceived slight. At that point, I ‘get’ that they aren’t consciously doing this for the image of being the ‘good guy’ (to themselves or anyone else) BUT they must feel like the ‘good guy’ to feel like they are capable of being judge and jury on their own?
    I've experienced this also, but would not call these people cp6, just 6s (even phobic), and often SFJs. It's more underhanded though. But they perceive you as a threat, often projecting their insecurities onto you, and this justifies some nasty, manipulative, even cruel stuff. In recent years, as an adult, I've been on the receiving end of this from some female 6s I'd call phobic overall, and it's like they don't realize THEY are the bully, the perpetrator, the one who STARTED the cycle. Because inevitably, people react negatively to their antics, and that fuels their suspicions & justifies their behavior. In their mind, they are the victim.

    On the other hand, I've seen 6s who are more of the "technical troubleshooting" or "skeptical" variety. These are usually NT males, sometimes ST. They don't apply strategies to social spheres so much as to impersonal tasks and philosophies and whatnot. This type doesn't seem threatened by people so much as future unknowns that are out of their control or they just seem suspicious of everything, in a more dismissive way than frightened way. They can give the impression of being rather calm, but also like they know everything. Probably more typical of a 5 wing too.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

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  2. #22
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    You know CP6 is not so bad. Watch The Patriot or Braveheart. Those are good examples.

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  3. #23
    Rainy Day Woman MDP2525's Avatar
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    I think a problem in communication here is that I’m not trying to say I think all CP6s are self-righteous. I’m only describing the extreme end that I see sometimes, it's something that really bothers me- when I see people on a level playing field being stampeded because of projected pedestals. This is something that seems (to me) specific to CP6, to stampede people in the name of Justice. But you are absolutely right, this is not even close to the average everyday experience of e6 or CP e6.

    This all started because I wanted to point out that it seems to me like e6s ‘block information to protect their ego’ like everyone else- and tried describing the extreme example that comes to mind when I think “counterphobic 6”. But maybe the average everyday experience of CP 6 is so far from that extreme end that it wasn’t productive.
    @Z Buck McFate I get that you aren't saying all are this way but even the outliers don't think of themselves this way. I've thought about this and even at my most unhealthy, self-righteousness wasn't something I could connect with and I would be honest if it was. A type doesn't change motivation even though their intensity or reactivity is off the charts. When, how and why they react can vary but the sentiment behind that type is fairly consistent. So, something isn't quite adding up with your descriptions of this type person being CP6.

    Your experiences may be with another type? Or with someone who has BPD? (This makes more sense to me. Both have reactivity/anger). I'm just trying to "get" your insistence on the perceived self-righteous angle because you seem so adamant and I believe that you feel there is this attitude. There must be a piece of the bridge missing between what the CP's on here are describing and what you are experiencing. That would be my best guess. Can you give an example of the self-righteousness? Is this something the person said or did? I'm very curious.


    EDIT: I wanted to mention your aspect of being the CP feeling like the "good guy". That again, rings hollow and I've tried to connect to it. I *really* can't. Most CP6's, won't advertise their struggles for others. It's almost...no. It just inherently feels wrong. Very wrong to do that. Remember CP6's aren't guided by altruism at all really...rather they are sticking up for fairness and a level playing field. In that sense, we are more ideal based than anything else and that is something I don't find in the texts and online that I want to highlight. That's an important distinction. So the feeling like a "good guy" is just not accurate. I can't stress that enough. It's very foreign to me. Any other sixes feel this way? The opposite? I'm curious. Chime in on that.

    Anyway, that again makes me think that this person is a different type.


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  4. #24
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDP2525 View Post
    @Z Buck McFate I get that you aren't saying all are this way but even the outliers don't think of themselves this way. I've thought about this and even at my most unhealthy, self-righteousness wasn't something I could connect with and I would be honest if it was. A type doesn't change motivation even though their intensity or reactivity is off the charts. When, how and why they react can vary but the sentiment behind that type is fairly consistent. So, something isn't quite adding up with your descriptions of this type person being CP6.

    Your experiences may be with another type? Or with someone who has BPD? I'm just trying to "get" your insistence on the perceived self-righteous angle because you seem so adamant and I believe that you feel there is this attitude. There must be a piece of the bridge missing between what the CP's on here are describing and what you are experiencing. That would be my best guess. Can you give an example of the self-righteousness? Is this something the person said or did? I'm very curious.

    I started this thread because it was a type that seems most understood here and frankly, a sort of catch-all for bad behavior. I wanted to show different people and different levels of "health" as well. I have to say that I am shocked at just how similar I agree with most everyone's responses here. Hopefully, it will be enlightening for everyone.
    I can actually feel my own tunnel vision going on here, with this. Lol. (It feels like there's *something* I'm not hearing.)

    One of my closest friends is an e6 INFP, and it kinda scares me sometimes because I feel like I might step on a landmine and something I say might get interpreted as something entirely different from what it is- and it seems like even the Ps get a sort of tunnel vision when they feel threatened? Even though I've known her for 10 years now- and even though I'm an honest person, and I think she values that and it does mean a lot to her that I've always been honest with her- it feels like a looming threat to me that I might say the wrong thing one day (and it'll have far more to do with how much stress she has going on in her own life/insecurity she feels herself than with any changes on my end). My memory for exact dialogue sucks, so I can't give specific examples.

    Ironically- it's my opinion that e6 NFPs can bridge that NFJ/NFP gap way better than other NFPs, they just 'get' NFJs far more than any other type of NFP. They somehow understand exactly what makes usual NFP discourse hard to ingest and they're better at speaking NFJ language (I suspect at least part of it has something to do with the way e6s value consistency, which is not usually a P strength). But it does scare me because it seems like once that first domino falls- if something I say is imbibed with *extra* meaning, and if it isn't sufficiently cleaned up right away (which I may not have any control over, no matter how much the person means to me or how honest *I* am about things....it seems like these kinds of things are set off more because the CP6 in question is stressed), then everything afterwards is going to be tainted with more *extra* projected meaning.

    There's just something in that certainty (?) that personally scares me/makes me wary. Even as a Pi dom (and therefore somewhat prone to tunnel vision myself), I don't understand it. I think I'm going to have to read through some enneagram 6 descriptions and come back with specific chunks of someone else's "6s do this" text- because that might help others figure out wtf I'm talking about. (It probably won't be today or tomorrow, but I'm glad this thread is here because I am curious.)
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  5. #25
    Senior Member Forever_Jung's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    I can actually feel my own tunnel vision going on here, with this. Lol. (It feels like there's *something* I'm not hearing.)

    One of my closest friends is an e6 INFP, and it kinda scares me sometimes because I feel like I might step on a landmine and something I say might get interpreted as something entirely different from what it is- and it seems like even the Ps get a sort of tunnel vision when they feel threatened? Even though I've known her for 10 years now- and even though I'm an honest person, and I think she values that and it does mean a lot to her that I've always been honest with her- it feels like a looming threat to me that I might say the wrong thing one day (and it'll have far more to do with how much stress she has going on in her own life/insecurity she feels herself than with any changes on my end). My memory for exact dialogue sucks, so I can't give specific examples.

    Ironically- it's my opinion that e6 NFPs can bridge that NFJ/NFP gap way better than other NFPs, they just 'get' NFJs far more than any other type of NFP. They somehow understand exactly what makes usual NFP discourse hard to ingest and they're better at speaking NFJ language (I suspect at least part of it has something to do with the way e6s value consistency, which is not usually a P strength). But it does scare me because it seems like once that first domino falls- if something I say is imbibed with *extra* meaning, and if it isn't sufficiently cleaned up right away (which I may not have any control over, no matter how much the person means to me or how honest *I* am about things....it seems like these kinds of things are set off more because the CP6 in question is stressed), then everything afterwards is going to be tainted with more *extra* projected meaning.

    There's just something in that certainty (?) that personally scares me/makes me wary. Even as a Pi dom (and therefore somewhat prone to tunnel vision myself), I don't understand it. I think I'm going to have to read through some enneagram 6 descriptions and come back with specific chunks of someone else's "6s do this" text- because that might help others figure out wtf I'm talking about. (It probably won't be today or tomorrow, but I'm glad this thread is here because I am curious.)
    I am still responding to one of your previous responses, so forgive me if I haven't completely digested this whole post, but I definitely am that hyper-sensitive NFP 6.

    My mom, an XNFJ often uses words like landmines, eggshells, when it comes to interacting with me under stress. It's not so much that I get righteously angry/indignant--it's more like paranoia: what's that supposed to mean??? Where do I stand with this person? I don't feel wronged, I don't feel like a good person railing against a meanie, I just feel threatened and unsafe. When you're in survival mode, morality doesn't figure into things. When someone might stab you, you aren't judging them as evil, and you as good, you are just trying to keep yourself alive. In this sense, I relate to what @MDP2525 was saying. I definitely see how this looks like "good guy" posturing esp. with NFP's, but I'll have to come back after I sleep some, and break it down.

    I was in a pretty messed up state of mind a few years ago, and I was always seeing insults where there were none. My friends would say: "You think you'd know by now that I wouldn't say something like that." But to me, I'm almost MORE worried my friends are going to do that, than I am about the average person. I know this sounds contradictory, but the more trust I put in someone, the more I have to check in to make sure I can still trust them. It's kind of like when sports team get super paranoid when their best players suffer minor injuries. So much depends upon their friendship.

    When I defensively react to a perceived attack, it's usually to (A) provoke them into reassuring me I am mistaken, while also (B) getting myself in the proper defensive position in case they WERE in fact attacking me. I figure I'm wrong, but just to make sure I'll test them.

    My logic is:

    I suspect my friend thinks ill of me. Hmm...better provoke/agitate them, in order to see if the hostility is hiding under surface.

    Unfortunately, it sometimes ends up being a self-fulfilling prophecy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    Hey, is Peter from Fringe an example of stable CP6, you think? (directed at anyone, not just highlander- if highlander even watches that show) Or Wilson from the show House?
    I saw Fringe's pilot when it originally aired, but don't remember much. I don't watch House a lot either, but I think Wilson is a 6. To move this more into my wheelhouse, and since Wilson is based on Dr. Watson (House/Holmes and Wilson/Watson), I offer Sherlock's trusty sidekick as an example of a healthy 6. The Watson from BBC's Sherlock especially. He alternates between the phobic flight response to just avoid all of Sherlock's trouble, and the counterphobic fight response of facing his fears head-on.

    Or Forever_Jung from Typo C?
    Nah, he's not a healthy 6. Average at best, sometimes worse. I'm not sure though, I try not to watch too much Typo C. It's repetitive and the characters are a bit ridiculous to be believed.

  6. #26
    Rainy Day Woman MDP2525's Avatar
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    I've always wondered how T and F distinctions of CP6's actualize in real life. @Forever_Jung what are the differences you see in what the CP6 T's have written on here and your own experiences?
    ~luck favors the ready~


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  7. #27
    Senior Member Sanjuro's Avatar
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    Question: There's an ongoing dispute about the accuracy of 6 descriptions, especially as regards cp6s. I'm curious in hearing your perspective on that.

    (I've got a cp6 head-fix and didn't relate to the type at all at first, but it's only my head-fix, not my core type).

  8. #28
    Rainy Day Woman MDP2525's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanjuro View Post
    Question: There's an ongoing dispute about the accuracy of 6 descriptions, especially as regards cp6s. I'm curious in hearing your perspective on that.

    (I've got a cp6 head-fix and didn't relate to the type at all at first, but it's only my head-fix, not my core type).
    Please elaborate on the dispute. I didn't know there was and I'd like to hear it. Personally, I've always thought them too vague and superficial and not fleshed out properly to have relatableness to new sixes. (Which is why they quickly dismiss the test or must think they are another type).

    Anyway, what is your core type? I'm not sure I buy into fixes. I see this more as vacillating between integration and current health levels. Or for that matter, desintrgration and current health levels. I don't feel as though we are static in our health levels as new experiences test us and we often revert to "reflex response" (aka desintegration) until we can apply what we learned from that to the next, hopefully now "familiar" problem (integration aka learned better strategy).
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  9. #29
    Senior Member Forever_Jung's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDP2525 View Post
    I've always wondered how T and F distinctions of CP6's actualize in real life. @Forever_Jung what are the differences you see in what the CP6 T's have written on here and your own experiences?
    Still mulling this over, but for the most part, I haven't noticed much of a difference. I'll get back to you.

  10. #30
    Senior Member Sanjuro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDP2525 View Post
    Please elaborate on the dispute. I didn't know there was and I'd like to hear it. Personally, I've always thought them too vague and superficial and not fleshed out properly to have relatableness to new sixes. (Which is why they quickly dismiss the test or must think they are another type).

    Anyway, what is your core type? I'm not sure I buy into fixes. I see this more as vacillating between integration and current health levels. Or for that matter, desintrgration and current health levels. I don't feel as though we are static in our health levels as new experiences test us and we often revert to "reflex response" (aka desintegration) until we can apply what we learned from that to the next, hopefully now "familiar" problem (integration aka learned better strategy).
    Sure thing.

    I initially mistyped as being "not much of anything". On another forum I mistyped as 6 because I had no idea wtf else I could be, even though I didn't much identify with the descriptions. That was OK, I was told. Sixes don't see themselves as sixes and are unaware of their own issues (lol).

    When I complained months later that I STILL didn't see myself as being a 6, many counterphobics commiserated that most 6 descriptions are incredibly condescending and have led to incredible fallacies being spread about the type (cp6s are "wannabe 8s", cp6s are posers, and a bunch of other bullshit). Yet, I've also heard reports that many 6s have read the descriptions and known without a doubt that that's their core type.

    So I guess I'm wondering what your own experience has been on that, beyond just finding it "vague" (which I kind of agree with, given the variegation of the type).

    As to me, I'm a core 4w5. If I'm not that, I'm a 8. Haven't found a better explanation than tritype for how it is I sit between two opposite forces (unless I go back to being a 6, of course).

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