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[Type 6] Ask a CP6...

OrangeAppled

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The thing about ‘restoration of equality’ though- the point I was trying to make is that when some CP6s act like self-contained judge and jury on their own, they actually end up unleveling the playing field. They’ll knock people off of imagined pedestals- which is to say they take people already on a level playing field and take them down a couple notches because of a perceived slight. At that point, I ‘get’ that they aren’t consciously doing this for the image of being the ‘good guy’ (to themselves or anyone else) BUT they must feel like the ‘good guy’ to feel like they are capable of being judge and jury on their own?

I've experienced this also, but would not call these people cp6, just 6s (even phobic), and often SFJs. It's more underhanded though. But they perceive you as a threat, often projecting their insecurities onto you, and this justifies some nasty, manipulative, even cruel stuff. In recent years, as an adult, I've been on the receiving end of this from some female 6s I'd call phobic overall, and it's like they don't realize THEY are the bully, the perpetrator, the one who STARTED the cycle. Because inevitably, people react negatively to their antics, and that fuels their suspicions & justifies their behavior. In their mind, they are the victim.

On the other hand, I've seen 6s who are more of the "technical troubleshooting" or "skeptical" variety. These are usually NT males, sometimes ST. They don't apply strategies to social spheres so much as to impersonal tasks and philosophies and whatnot. This type doesn't seem threatened by people so much as future unknowns that are out of their control or they just seem suspicious of everything, in a more dismissive way than frightened way. They can give the impression of being rather calm, but also like they know everything. Probably more typical of a 5 wing too.
 

highlander

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You know CP6 is not so bad. Watch The Patriot or Braveheart. Those are good examples.
 

ChocolateMoose123

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I think a problem in communication here is that I’m not trying to say I think all CP6s are self-righteous. I’m only describing the extreme end that I see sometimes, it's something that really bothers me- when I see people on a level playing field being stampeded because of projected pedestals. This is something that seems (to me) specific to CP6, to stampede people in the name of Justice. But you are absolutely right, this is not even close to the average everyday experience of e6 or CP e6.

This all started because I wanted to point out that it seems to me like e6s ‘block information to protect their ego’ like everyone else- and tried describing the extreme example that comes to mind when I think “counterphobic 6”. But maybe the average everyday experience of CP 6 is so far from that extreme end that it wasn’t productive.

[MENTION=7842]Z Buck McFate[/MENTION] I get that you aren't saying all are this way but even the outliers don't think of themselves this way. I've thought about this and even at my most unhealthy, self-righteousness wasn't something I could connect with and I would be honest if it was. A type doesn't change motivation even though their intensity or reactivity is off the charts. When, how and why they react can vary but the sentiment behind that type is fairly consistent. So, something isn't quite adding up with your descriptions of this type person being CP6.

Your experiences may be with another type? Or with someone who has BPD? (This makes more sense to me. Both have reactivity/anger). I'm just trying to "get" your insistence on the perceived self-righteous angle because you seem so adamant and I believe that you feel there is this attitude. There must be a piece of the bridge missing between what the CP's on here are describing and what you are experiencing. That would be my best guess. Can you give an example of the self-righteousness? Is this something the person said or did? I'm very curious.


EDIT: I wanted to mention your aspect of being the CP feeling like the "good guy". That again, rings hollow and I've tried to connect to it. I *really* can't. Most CP6's, won't advertise their struggles for others. It's almost...no. It just inherently feels wrong. Very wrong to do that. Remember CP6's aren't guided by altruism at all really...rather they are sticking up for fairness and a level playing field. In that sense, we are more ideal based than anything else and that is something I don't find in the texts and online that I want to highlight. That's an important distinction. So the feeling like a "good guy" is just not accurate. I can't stress that enough. It's very foreign to me. Any other sixes feel this way? The opposite? I'm curious. Chime in on that.

Anyway, that again makes me think that this person is a different type.


Fictional characters: Jeremy Renner's character from The Hurt Locker. Angelina Jolie is TEXTBOOK counter-phobic six in real life.
 

Z Buck McFate

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[MENTION=7842]Z Buck McFate[/MENTION] I get that you aren't saying all are this way but even the outliers don't think of themselves this way. I've thought about this and even at my most unhealthy, self-righteousness wasn't something I could connect with and I would be honest if it was. A type doesn't change motivation even though their intensity or reactivity is off the charts. When, how and why they react can vary but the sentiment behind that type is fairly consistent. So, something isn't quite adding up with your descriptions of this type person being CP6.

Your experiences may be with another type? Or with someone who has BPD? I'm just trying to "get" your insistence on the perceived self-righteous angle because you seem so adamant and I believe that you feel there is this attitude. There must be a piece of the bridge missing between what the CP's on here are describing and what you are experiencing. That would be my best guess. Can you give an example of the self-righteousness? Is this something the person said or did? I'm very curious.

I started this thread because it was a type that seems most understood here and frankly, a sort of catch-all for bad behavior. I wanted to show different people and different levels of "health" as well. I have to say that I am shocked at just how similar I agree with most everyone's responses here. Hopefully, it will be enlightening for everyone.

I can actually feel my own tunnel vision going on here, with this. Lol. (It feels like there's *something* I'm not hearing.)

One of my closest friends is an e6 INFP, and it kinda scares me sometimes because I feel like I might step on a landmine and something I say might get interpreted as something entirely different from what it is- and it seems like even the Ps get a sort of tunnel vision when they feel threatened? Even though I've known her for 10 years now- and even though I'm an honest person, and I think she values that and it does mean a lot to her that I've always been honest with her- it feels like a looming threat to me that I might say the wrong thing one day (and it'll have far more to do with how much stress she has going on in her own life/insecurity she feels herself than with any changes on my end). My memory for exact dialogue sucks, so I can't give specific examples.

Ironically- it's my opinion that e6 NFPs can bridge that NFJ/NFP gap way better than other NFPs, they just 'get' NFJs far more than any other type of NFP. They somehow understand exactly what makes usual NFP discourse hard to ingest and they're better at speaking NFJ language (I suspect at least part of it has something to do with the way e6s value consistency, which is not usually a P strength). But it does scare me because it seems like once that first domino falls- if something I say is imbibed with *extra* meaning, and if it isn't sufficiently cleaned up right away (which I may not have any control over, no matter how much the person means to me or how honest *I* am about things....it seems like these kinds of things are set off more because the CP6 in question is stressed), then everything afterwards is going to be tainted with more *extra* projected meaning.

There's just something in that certainty (?) that personally scares me/makes me wary. Even as a Pi dom (and therefore somewhat prone to tunnel vision myself), I don't understand it. I think I'm going to have to read through some enneagram 6 descriptions and come back with specific chunks of someone else's "6s do this" text- because that might help others figure out wtf I'm talking about. (It probably won't be today or tomorrow, but I'm glad this thread is here because I am curious.)
 

Forever_Jung

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I can actually feel my own tunnel vision going on here, with this. Lol. (It feels like there's *something* I'm not hearing.)

One of my closest friends is an e6 INFP, and it kinda scares me sometimes because I feel like I might step on a landmine and something I say might get interpreted as something entirely different from what it is- and it seems like even the Ps get a sort of tunnel vision when they feel threatened? Even though I've known her for 10 years now- and even though I'm an honest person, and I think she values that and it does mean a lot to her that I've always been honest with her- it feels like a looming threat to me that I might say the wrong thing one day (and it'll have far more to do with how much stress she has going on in her own life/insecurity she feels herself than with any changes on my end). My memory for exact dialogue sucks, so I can't give specific examples.

Ironically- it's my opinion that e6 NFPs can bridge that NFJ/NFP gap way better than other NFPs, they just 'get' NFJs far more than any other type of NFP. They somehow understand exactly what makes usual NFP discourse hard to ingest and they're better at speaking NFJ language (I suspect at least part of it has something to do with the way e6s value consistency, which is not usually a P strength). But it does scare me because it seems like once that first domino falls- if something I say is imbibed with *extra* meaning, and if it isn't sufficiently cleaned up right away (which I may not have any control over, no matter how much the person means to me or how honest *I* am about things....it seems like these kinds of things are set off more because the CP6 in question is stressed), then everything afterwards is going to be tainted with more *extra* projected meaning.

There's just something in that certainty (?) that personally scares me/makes me wary. Even as a Pi dom (and therefore somewhat prone to tunnel vision myself), I don't understand it. I think I'm going to have to read through some enneagram 6 descriptions and come back with specific chunks of someone else's "6s do this" text- because that might help others figure out wtf I'm talking about. (It probably won't be today or tomorrow, but I'm glad this thread is here because I am curious.)

I am still responding to one of your previous responses, so forgive me if I haven't completely digested this whole post, but I definitely am that hyper-sensitive NFP 6. :doh:

My mom, an XNFJ often uses words like landmines, eggshells, when it comes to interacting with me under stress. It's not so much that I get righteously angry/indignant--it's more like paranoia: what's that supposed to mean??? Where do I stand with this person? I don't feel wronged, I don't feel like a good person railing against a meanie, I just feel threatened and unsafe. When you're in survival mode, morality doesn't figure into things. When someone might stab you, you aren't judging them as evil, and you as good, you are just trying to keep yourself alive. In this sense, I relate to what [MENTION=5223]MDP2525[/MENTION] was saying. I definitely see how this looks like "good guy" posturing esp. with NFP's, but I'll have to come back after I sleep some, and break it down.

I was in a pretty messed up state of mind a few years ago, and I was always seeing insults where there were none. My friends would say: "You think you'd know by now that I wouldn't say something like that." But to me, I'm almost MORE worried my friends are going to do that, than I am about the average person. I know this sounds contradictory, but the more trust I put in someone, the more I have to check in to make sure I can still trust them. It's kind of like when sports team get super paranoid when their best players suffer minor injuries. So much depends upon their friendship.

When I defensively react to a perceived attack, it's usually to (A) provoke them into reassuring me I am mistaken, while also (B) getting myself in the proper defensive position in case they WERE in fact attacking me. I figure I'm wrong, but just to make sure I'll test them.

My logic is:

I suspect my friend thinks ill of me. Hmm...better provoke/agitate them, in order to see if the hostility is hiding under surface.

Unfortunately, it sometimes ends up being a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Hey, is Peter from Fringe an example of stable CP6, you think? (directed at anyone, not just highlander- if highlander even watches that show) Or Wilson from the show House?

I saw Fringe's pilot when it originally aired, but don't remember much. I don't watch House a lot either, but I think Wilson is a 6. To move this more into my wheelhouse, and since Wilson is based on Dr. Watson (House/Holmes and Wilson/Watson), I offer Sherlock's trusty sidekick as an example of a healthy 6. The Watson from BBC's Sherlock especially. He alternates between the phobic flight response to just avoid all of Sherlock's trouble, and the counterphobic fight response of facing his fears head-on.

Or Forever_Jung from Typo C?

Nah, he's not a healthy 6. Average at best, sometimes worse. I'm not sure though, I try not to watch too much Typo C. It's repetitive and the characters are a bit ridiculous to be believed. ;)
 

ChocolateMoose123

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I've always wondered how T and F distinctions of CP6's actualize in real life. [MENTION=7040]Forever_Jung[/MENTION] what are the differences you see in what the CP6 T's have written on here and your own experiences?
 

Chad of the OttomanEmpire

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Question: There's an ongoing dispute about the accuracy of 6 descriptions, especially as regards cp6s. I'm curious in hearing your perspective on that.

(I've got a cp6 head-fix and didn't relate to the type at all at first, but it's only my head-fix, not my core type).
 

ChocolateMoose123

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Question: There's an ongoing dispute about the accuracy of 6 descriptions, especially as regards cp6s. I'm curious in hearing your perspective on that.

(I've got a cp6 head-fix and didn't relate to the type at all at first, but it's only my head-fix, not my core type).

Please elaborate on the dispute. I didn't know there was and I'd like to hear it. Personally, I've always thought them too vague and superficial and not fleshed out properly to have relatableness to new sixes. (Which is why they quickly dismiss the test or must think they are another type).

Anyway, what is your core type? I'm not sure I buy into fixes. I see this more as vacillating between integration and current health levels. Or for that matter, desintrgration and current health levels. I don't feel as though we are static in our health levels as new experiences test us and we often revert to "reflex response" (aka desintegration) until we can apply what we learned from that to the next, hopefully now "familiar" problem (integration aka learned better strategy).
 

Forever_Jung

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I've always wondered how T and F distinctions of CP6's actualize in real life. [MENTION=7040]Forever_Jung[/MENTION] what are the differences you see in what the CP6 T's have written on here and your own experiences?

Still mulling this over, but for the most part, I haven't noticed much of a difference. :shrug: I'll get back to you.
 

Chad of the OttomanEmpire

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Please elaborate on the dispute. I didn't know there was and I'd like to hear it. Personally, I've always thought them too vague and superficial and not fleshed out properly to have relatableness to new sixes. (Which is why they quickly dismiss the test or must think they are another type).

Anyway, what is your core type? I'm not sure I buy into fixes. I see this more as vacillating between integration and current health levels. Or for that matter, desintrgration and current health levels. I don't feel as though we are static in our health levels as new experiences test us and we often revert to "reflex response" (aka desintegration) until we can apply what we learned from that to the next, hopefully now "familiar" problem (integration aka learned better strategy).
Sure thing.

I initially mistyped as being "not much of anything". On another forum I mistyped as 6 because I had no idea wtf else I could be, even though I didn't much identify with the descriptions. That was OK, I was told. Sixes don't see themselves as sixes and are unaware of their own issues (lol).

When I complained months later that I STILL didn't see myself as being a 6, many counterphobics commiserated that most 6 descriptions are incredibly condescending and have led to incredible fallacies being spread about the type (cp6s are "wannabe 8s", cp6s are posers, and a bunch of other bullshit). Yet, I've also heard reports that many 6s have read the descriptions and known without a doubt that that's their core type.

So I guess I'm wondering what your own experience has been on that, beyond just finding it "vague" (which I kind of agree with, given the variegation of the type).

As to me, I'm a core 4w5. If I'm not that, I'm a 8. Haven't found a better explanation than tritype for how it is I sit between two opposite forces (unless I go back to being a 6, of course).
 

Forever_Jung

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Sure thing.

I initially mistyped as being "not much of anything". On another forum I mistyped as 6 because I had no idea wtf else I could be, even though I didn't much identify with the descriptions. That was OK, I was told. Sixes don't see themselves as sixes and are unaware of their own issues (lol).

When I complained months later that I STILL didn't see myself as being a 6, many counterphobics commiserated that most 6 descriptions are incredibly condescending and have led to incredible fallacies being spread about the type (cp6s are "wannabe 8s", cp6s are posers, and a bunch of other bullshit). Yet, I've also heard reports that many 6s have read the descriptions and known without a doubt that that's their core type.

So I guess I'm wondering what your own experience has been on that, beyond just finding it "vague" (which I kind of agree with, given the variegation of the type).

As to me, I'm a core 4w5. If I'm not that, I'm a 8. Haven't found a better explanation than tritype for how it is I sit between two opposite forces (unless I go back to being a 6, of course).

Yes, it all seems very stupid:

I think I'm a six.
Agreed, you're a six.
Well, actually, I don't think I am.
That just makes you more of a six.

Anyway, I agree that six in many ways seems lame. Phobics are cowardly victims, counterphobics are the overcompensating bullies. We're also known as the sheep, the company man, the spineless bureaucrat, and that neurotic guy who's always whining about stuff. The NAZIS are often associated with e6 as well. I can see why people might resist identifying as 6.

That being said, I've never been a person who relates to positive descriptions. After all, 6's tend to gravitate to the problematic and are generally very aware of their own shortcomings. Besides, I'm a firm believer that if you're not a little uncomfortable reading your type description, then it's probably not your type. They're not supposed to be desirable profiles.

However, when I am looking for a more desirable embodiment of 6ish traits, I look to all the great 6 comedians like: Louis C.K., George Carlin, Woody Allen, Bill Burr, Jon Stewart, Bill Hicks (maybe), Richard Pryor (maybe). I dunno if they're all 6's, but that's sort of the overall picture I get.
 

ChocolateMoose123

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Sure thing.

I initially mistyped as being "not much of anything". On another forum I mistyped as 6 because I had no idea wtf else I could be, even though I didn't much identify with the descriptions. That was OK, I was told. Sixes don't see themselves as sixes and are unaware of their own issues (lol).

When I complained months later that I STILL didn't see myself as being a 6, many counterphobics commiserated that most 6 descriptions are incredibly condescending and have led to incredible fallacies being spread about the type (cp6s are "wannabe 8s", cp6s are posers, and a bunch of other bullshit). Yet, I've also heard reports that many 6s have read the descriptions and known without a doubt that that's their core type.

So I guess I'm wondering what your own experience has been on that, beyond just finding it "vague" (which I kind of agree with, given the variegation of the type).

As to me, I'm a core 4w5. If I'm not that, I'm a 8. Haven't found a better explanation than tritype for how it is I sit between two opposite forces (unless I go back to being a 6, of course).

Ok. I tested as 5, 7 and 8 quite frequently. I never got six as a test result when I was taking these tests. So take that for what it's worth. I really think 6's should be divided into two types and have two separate profiles. Anyway, I felt strongly 5 or 8. Like I was perfectly halfway between these two types. Do you feel like half of two types? Have you looked into 5w6(cp)? CP6 can have a lot of "relatableness" with 4's.

I will do some research and try to find some threads with good descriptions.

The six profile is mainly a phobic profile. Which is why I did not read up on it and probably why I didn't test is a six. For some reason, the test does not do good job of differentiating six counterphobia and eight normal behavior. It may catch the emotional reactivity (4) or aggressiveness (8). Mainly because the motivation behind the behavior is different but the behavior could look exactly alike. Add the fact that CP sixes aren't aware of fear being a driving force (they may be in denial of it even when faced) and you have a recipe for enneagram confusion. I love what [MENTION=7040]Forever_Jung[/MENTION] said, that when reading your profile you should feel discomfort.

What is it about the four description that you relate to? Is this 100% for you?
 
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What drives c6s to be so argumentative. When i mean argumentative i mean arguing over the simplest thing, with the closest of all people, over points made that weren't even made to offend or disagree?

Do you ever feel that you take things too seriously when you get involved in the kind of scenarios explained above?

Is it normal for c6s to imagine things to prove a point. I am not talking of scenarios where if you don't prove your point you'd get shot in your head.

Do/would you lie to prove a point.

Do you constantly feel stress?

Do you ever think you crossed the limit in going bat shit crazy over another and have you ever apologized or would you?

If you get to be any other personality type what would you choose to be. It doesn't necessarity have to be a type you admire.

What do you think of e7s? (Try not to say that they all party too much.) Do you think e7s and e9s take things too lightly?

Are you conservative when it comes to sex? Do you find it hard to intimately bond with another due to your anxieties? Do you find it hard to simply seek sex?

Do you fuss ober the simplest things and are you people ever satisfied with things?
 

Forever_Jung

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What drives c6s to be so argumentative. When i mean argumentative i mean arguing over the simplest thing, with the closest of all people, over points made that weren't even made to offend or disagree?

Well I'm not ALWAYS like that, but I certainly am like this at times. Usually it's like a weird reaction to reassert my autonomy, my separateness from them. When I feel totally safe, I get kind of gooey and nineish and sort of melt into people, it's like I fall asleep.

Then I sort of snap out of it, and push people back. One of my exes used to think I was bipolar because I alternated between being a cuddly/receptive and confrontational/distant. I am also obsessed with clarity, and don't intend my disagreement/nitpicking to be upsetting. I just think I'm spelling things out and being helpful.

Do you ever feel that you take things too seriously when you get involved in the kind of scenarios explained above?

Petty arguments? Yes, I think I do think I get too serious.

Is it normal for c6s to imagine things to prove a point. I am not talking of scenarios where if you don't prove your point you'd get shot in your head.

Do/would you lie to prove a point.

Erm, not sure I know what you mean. I don't see how lying would prove anything. Don't get me wrong, I imagine things, but I don't do it to prove a point. I do it to make sure I am aware of bad things that might happen to me. Perhaps I misunderstand your question.

Do you constantly feel stress?

Unless I'm at home in my pyjamas, I'm probably stressed. If I am actively engaging with the world, especially with unfamiliar people in an unfamiliar context, I tend to be uncomfortable. Every new person I meet is a ticking time bomb that needs defusing. Humour helps me immensely in this respect. I'm also constantly bracing myself for muggers, when I'm on the street.

Do you ever think you crossed the limit in going bat shit crazy over another and have you ever apologized or would you?

I am quick to apologize, because I realize I'm usually fighting an invisible enemy in the first place. But I've never done anything "bat shit crazy", IMO. The craziest I get is calling up my friends to make sure we're still friends (although I've learned to conceal this purpose, because it makes them uncomfortable). I used to project my hypersensitivity and imagination onto my friends, so I was always paranoid I had offended them. I'm a little more grounded and mature these days though.

If you get to be any other personality type what would you choose to be. It doesn't necessarity have to be a type you admire.

I'd like to be a 5. I envy their ability to detach.

What do you think of e7s? (Try not to say that they all party too much.) Do you think e7s and e9s take things too lightly?

They seem naive to me. To me the 9's approach to life is like taking a nap on a battlefield. 7's remind me of the hyperactive toddler that chases their ball out into the middle of a busy intersection. And when I dive into traffic and save them, they just giggle at me for being so worked up.
Are you conservative when it comes to sex? Do you find it hard to intimately bond with another due to your anxieties? Do you find it hard to simply seek sex?

I'm a bit messed up in regards to sex, but it's more of an experience thing than it is a 6 thing. Before some shitty things happened though, I remember finding it a bit tricky, to completely give myself to another person. I definitely have some intimacy issues.

Do you fuss ober the simplest things and are you people ever satisfied with things?

I fear satisfaction/complacency, but I have my moments of contentment. When I'm satisfied, it's almost Edenic, but like Eden, it doesn't last forever.

One of my friends often laments: Why can't you just accept that I care about you, and that will never change?

And while I know what she's getting at, I can't help but think: people always say forever, people always say their feelings won't change. But they do. How can I accept that which I know to be patently false? How can I build my sense of security on a faulty foundation?
 

ChocolateMoose123

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What drives c6s to be so argumentative. When i mean argumentative i mean arguing over the simplest thing, with the closest of all people, over points made that weren't even made to offend or disagree?

Ok. So, it may be the way you are phrasing things. Something I've noticed lurking on the forum and please - absolutely no offense is meant! I'm only trying to explain possible CP6 behavior. I'm not to judge it right or wrong but I have come across your posts and a lot of times they hit me as argumentative, even if, to you, they may just be inquisitive or challenging. So that naturally, kicks in the "defense" of a CP6.

ENTJ can have a naturally aggressive style of communication but it's the sureness in what they are saying, even if they may be just "stating the facts as they see it" that can just hit that CP6 button. Immediately, they think "No that's not correct/You don't have all the facts to say that yet/You aren't leaving room for the other POV/How can you know/ etc. Long story short, you may be unknowingly pushing their buttons. Or your natural interaction style may do that as well.


Do you ever feel that you take things too seriously when you get involved in the kind of scenarios explained above?

Probably not. Mainly because if we are engaging you, we are either defending our POV as equally viable or trying to maintain consistency by correction.

Is it normal for c6s to imagine things to prove a point. I am not talking of scenarios where if you don't prove your point you'd get shot in your head.

In that CP6's head, I doubt they see it like that. We can extrapolate the worst case scenario from a situation easily. We usually do not verbalize this but if we are then the CP6 is extremely stressed and feels backed into a corner.

Do/would you lie to prove a point.

I don't think this is type related. Depends upon the person.

Do you constantly feel stress?

I think this varies from 6 to 6. I personally, do not until I'm over the stress. In hindsight, I will see it. My friends and loved ones see it.

Do you ever think you crossed the limit in going bat shit crazy over another and have you ever apologized or would you?

I don't know very many CP6's who will not apologize when having wronged someone. I don't know what you mean by "bat shit crazy". Example?
However, if that CP6 doesn't like you, hell will freeze over before they will give you one (normally the CP6 has already shut you out) or they may begrudgingly give one to restore peace to return things to running order. We like smooth running systems.


If you get to be any other personality type what would you choose to be. It doesn't necessarity have to be a type you admire.

Probably a 8w9 or 9w8.

What do you think of e7s? (Try not to say that they all party too much.) Do you think e7s and e9s take things too lightly?

My SO is E7. My best friend is E9. No, I don't think either takes things too lightly. I can see 7's anxiety subsequent distraction-to-forget and I can see 9's repression fairly easily. So different strokes, different folks. Each has a burden to bear.

Are you conservative when it comes to sex? Do you find it hard to intimately bond with another due to your anxieties? Do you find it hard to simply seek sex?

I don't think your first and third questions are type related. As for your second: Since most CP6's tend to be SX first, then I would say intimately bonding with someone is pretty much what we do. For how long that is, remains to be seen but I would look for more information about SX for your full answer on that. I would say that it parallels CP6 behavior with intimacy.

Do you fuss ober the simplest things and are you people ever satisfied with things?

A CP6 fussing over small, mundane shit is an over-stressed CP6 who feels their voice or contributions are not being actively considered or appreciated. Easy way to keep a CP6 calm or more manageable, is to notice what they do for you, and thank them for it. A more mature CP6 will know when to fuss and not to fuss. They will know what battles to pick.
 

Chad of the OttomanEmpire

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Yes, it all seems very stupid:

I think I'm a six.
Agreed, you're a six.
Well, actually, I don't think I am.
That just makes you more of a six.
Oh God. Yes. YES.

It's like:
- I don't think I have an alcohol problem.
- The first symptom of alcoholism is denying you have a problem.
- But I don't drink alcohol.
- PROOF OF DENIAL.

I went through it all, loud and clear.

Anyway, I agree that six in many ways seems lame. Phobics are cowardly victims, counterphobics are the overcompensating bullies. We're also known as the sheep, the company man, the spineless bureaucrat, and that neurotic guy who's always whining about stuff. The NAZIS are often associated with e6 as well. I can see why people might resist identifying as 6.

That being said, I've never been a person who relates to positive descriptions. After all, 6's tend to gravitate to the problematic and are generally very aware of their own shortcomings. Besides, I'm a firm believer that if you're not a little uncomfortable reading your type description, then it's probably not your type. They're not supposed to be desirable profiles.
Yeah, it should describe the things you've struggled with all your life, or the things that distinguish you from the rest. That tends to distinguish us more than our positive traits, which are often non-type specific. I disagree with some that it's necessarily a traumatic experience designed to reduce you to tears, but it should at least feel "weird" reading about your psychology on paper the first time!

Anyway. Yeah, some 6 descriptions are, unfortunately, lame, and do not begin to cover the awesome (and evil) of which the type is capable. Also, it's funny Hitler and the Nazis are seen as 6ish...I've been reading Hitler's biography, and the dude was clearly a 4w3 (prolly 487 tritype--!).

Ok. I tested as 5, 7 and 8 quite frequently. I never got six as a test result when I was taking these tests. So take that for what it's worth. I really think 6's should be divided into two types and have two separate profiles. Anyway, I felt strongly 5 or 8. Like I was perfectly halfway between these two types. Do you feel like half of two types? Have you looked into 5w6(cp)? CP6 can have a lot of "relatableness" with 4's.
Yeah, I do feel like two types! I've considered being a 5 for a long time. I am definitely a reactive type, however, as opposed to a competency type. Cp6w5 would actually be a bit better! But for me, my core issues have really been around feeling different, feeling inferior/superior, being unable to make friends, longing for what I don't have...etc. Fives seem to lack that certain longing--they are detached from that desire.

I will do some research and try to find some threads with good descriptions.

The six profile is mainly a phobic profile. Which is why I did not read up on it and probably why I didn't test is a six. For some reason, the test does not do good job of differentiating six counterphobia and eight normal behavior. It may catch the emotional reactivity (4) or aggressiveness (8). Mainly because the motivation behind the behavior is different but the behavior could look exactly alike. Add the fact that CP sixes aren't aware of fear being a driving force (they may be in denial of it even when faced) and you have a recipe for enneagram confusion. I love what [MENTION=7040]Forever_Jung[/MENTION] said, that when reading your profile you should feel discomfort.

What is it about the four description that you relate to? Is this 100% for you?
Thanks for your perspective!! This is actually what I've privately thought. I think if I were going to teach type 6 to a group, I would divide it into 2 (or even 3) separate profiles. It's a hard type to test for, that's for sure. You're also right that there's a major phobic bias in many descriptions, which naturally makes it difficult for a countertype to relate to. How are you supposed to see yourself in something you are designed to be in denial of???

BTW, how would you differentiate 4ish emotionality, 6ish counterphobia, and 8ish aggression?

As to me, again: Yeah. Just the issues I mentioned above. I also see the motivations of 3 and 5 at work within me, as well as a strong 1-connection. The 4-profiles aren't 100% me, because they draw in too much "poor hypersensitive lil me, I can't cope with life and need a savior" mentality, as well as too much prissiness. But--this is why I like tritype--every 8-fixed 4 I've spoken to has had the same difficulties in ascertaining type. The 4 descriptions are rather 9-biased, similar to 6 descriptions being phobic-biased.

I've figured out ways the "not me" parts actually do apply to me, and it's a lot easier to make that work than it is for any other type! (I've been doing this about 14 years, fwiw).
 

ChocolateMoose123

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BTW, how would you differentiate 4ish emotionality, 6ish counterphobia, and 8ish aggression?

[MENTION=1180]miss fortune[/MENTION] can help with this as she is an 8 and can dinstinction between CP6 and 8 and we have talked privately about this and she had some good insight on differences.

CP6's are good at looking at their fear and thinking its a challenge. Or being oblivious to fear but feeling compelled to overcome something. In this way, we can look bold and aggressive, in charge like an 8.

8's are waaay more grounded than 6's though and this is important. Head vs Gut type. Both are defensive POV of the world.

6's REACT to stimili and try to find security in *something outside ourselves* because we never learned to trust ourselves or others.

8's (because of fear of vulnerability/rejection) learn to find it within.

6's find it hard to trust ourselves. So we look to organizations, something bigger than us to trust in. We are outward bound. Always. We are least in touch with what WE want.

Finding it difficult to rely on others, 8's learned to trust themselves. Inward bound.

So, trust and vulnerability go hand in hand but 6's and 8's are flipped sides of the coin. 6's went outside for security and 8's go inward to find it.
 

ChocolateMoose123

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4's emotionality and 6 counterphobia differences

4's basic underlying fear: that they have no identify or personal significance.

CP6's do not focus on their identity like 4's. It's not a matter of authentic vs inauthentic self - rather - their fears dictate their behavior (as opposed to identity) but these can look like doppelgängers.

Since anxiety and fear is ever present in a CP6 world (although mostly subconscious) we REACT to it. The reaction is emotional in nature. It can cause anger, and avoidance in the same way that spur's a 4 to reject an image that doesn't confirm to their pre-conceived standards of "who they are".

Again, 4's like 8's have trouble with vulnerability but they withdraw from things that challenge their "idealized image" and generally surround themselves with reinforcements of that image.

It is why so many 4's talk about feeling "defective" because the outside world may be in stark contrast to their inner self-image.

Reconciling how they see themselves and how they interact with the world can be difficult but necessary to grow.

6's motivations are entirely different.

Individualism isn't even on their radar but their reaction to fear/anxiety can be similar to how a 4 looks in protecting their identity. Both are reactive types.

6's want to *lessen* anxiety/fearful situations happening by heading them off at the pass. CP6's do this presumptively because they are so afraid of having to deal with fear/anxiety they not only have to be ready for "it" (phobic) they have to quell any sign of it starting!

Think of matches and a gas can sitting on a bench.

The phobic 6 will see these things and start looking for an extinguisher to make sure it is within reach. The smoke alarms are working. As long as they have these things checked off - they eased their anxiety/fear by preparation and it is smooth sailing.

The CP6 will see matches and a gas can sitting next to each other and feel compelled to separate the two.

(Just incase, because remeber when Johnny started that fire that one time and burnt his eyebrows? That was bad. That shouldn't happen again.) <---- anxiety grows!

That CP6 doesn't even want to *deal* with the issues that *could* happen if some person came by and decided to start a fire. So let's make it so no one can just come by and do that by not leaving these things next to each other. <--- anxiety lessens

6's can be very good troubleshooters with this recognition but can also over-engineer (unnecessary) mechanisms that waste time and effort.

Inside a 6 is a lackadaisical, chill, 9. We integrate to 9. This is important.

We relax and don't catastrophize. We let things play out.

We trust ourselves and our abilities (deeper core issue of 6's) to handle things. We get a "grip" on fear.
 

Cloudpatrol

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I really think 6's should be divided into two types and have two separate profiles. Anyway, I felt strongly 5 or 8. Like I was perfectly halfway between these two types.

CP6 can have a lot of "relatableness" with 4's.


What a great thread! I hadn't seen it before. Very helpful perspectives. I agree that there should be clear descriptor's for both. Phobic 6's and CP 6's are ENTIRELY different in my experience :)

I don't relate at all to Phobic 6's but I do see elements of 'same' between CP 6 and 4 :)

This vid really helped me in narrowing down a 6 in my life as it describes the manifestations of both:


[MENTION=7040]Forever_Jung[/MENTION]

They seem naive to me. To me the 9's approach to life is like taking a nap on a battlefield. 7's remind me of the hyperactive toddler that chases their ball out into the middle of a busy intersection. And when I dive into traffic and save them, they just giggle at me for being so worked up.

What do you recommend a 7 or 9 do in these situations to reassure the 6 that despite being easygoing, a capable and mindful attitude IS still present? What would be effective to say?
 

ChocolateMoose123

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[MENTION=27162]Cloudpatrol[/MENTION]

As a 4, can you give some insight as to how you see CP6's in relation to your 4ness?
 
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