User Tag List

Page 2 of 12 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 120

Thread: Ask a CP6...

  1. #11
    Rainy Day Woman Array MDP2525's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    MBTI
    ISTP
    Enneagram
    6w5 sx/sp
    Posts
    5,130

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate



    As I said in the other thread- I’m not trying to say this is always the case, this is more extreme/under stress behavior- but there is something that looks like self-righteousness to me. That convo started because someone said that e6 doesn’t ‘block information about themselves to protect their ego’, and I was questioning that.

    It *seems* to me like ultimately it’s some kind of fear that the ‘bad guy’ is going to get away with something (help a sister out here, is that even kinda what’s going on?),
    Yes. Very true.

    ...and on the ‘more stressed’ end of things it’s as if a person starts to feel like some kind of self-contained judge and jury. That seems like self-righteousness to me, because I don’t understand how someone could feel confident impulsively casting stones at the ‘bad guys’ unless they feel morally superior- isn’t there some kind of ‘bad guy’ designation going on in their head and they’re automatically coming from a place of assuming ‘good guy’ for themselves?
    So this is where I think you are misunderstanding the interpretation of CP6 behavior. First, I'm going to say this phenomenon you are describing with CP6's, if not reigned in, can be damaging to people - even to the CP6. We often get hung with our own noose when we lose the "big picture" of what we are "crusading" for. In turn, we can look petty and vindictive. It's a CP6 off the rails, not a CP6 in control and effective.

    Okay. So things rarely start that way for the CP6. You mention self-righteousness as a factor in motivation of behavior. I'm not saying it can't look that way but from the CP6 perspective - it is completely not. CP6's generally fight a LOT of self doubt. Like, tremendous. What we have is "group-righteousness". We are usually a strong proponent of the underdog. We don't like unfairness - at all. A CP6 guards that very strongly.

    In fact, as a child, I once stood up to an entire class who was bullying a fellow classmate. She was just crying at her desk while people were throwing insults. I thought, enough is enough. That is a good side of a CP6's crusading. Was that self-righteous to assume she needed help and that I could be that person? Maybe not in that case but this is the thought process of a CP6. "What jimmy is doing is not fair. I've seen jimmy do this x number of times before. Now it's time to speak up and stop jimmy from -------." So the problem is irrelevant to the CP6. The thought pattern is the same.

    What looks like impulsive judgement is really observation of action over time. CP6's are keen on this but unfortunately rarely verbally express these "proofs". So it can look like arrogance/self-righteous crusading with no merit. Personally, when asked why I "treat so and so that way" and I have explained "next time you are around said person watch what they do in this circumstance, they will do x, and y (selfish or fucked up behavior)". People have come back to me and said "I really wish you didn't tell me that. Now I see what you are saying".


    This is on the far stressed end, to be sure- but that’s true of all the e-types, egos only ever really turn to coping mechanisms (to ‘block information from themselves’) under duress. Under truly egalitarian views though, I would think people wouldn’t feel such a need to cast stones (“let he who has not sinned cast the first stone…”).
    Totally. But the CP6 is not the one casting the first stone. They are inherently reactive. Can they make mistakes on their observational conclusions? Yes. Can they over-react? Yes! This is probably what you are seeing - a CP6 reacting and possibly not having critical information. Or a less mature CP6 who hasn't learned which battles to forget and which to fight. The more mature and balanced a CP6 is, the more patience and time they have before reacting.

    They will often be seen acting aggressively because once they decide to go after a cause or person (after that period of personally silently gathering observations, etc) They take action against said threat. This looks super aggressive and often is. CP6's think it's obvious what the other party is doing and explaining their thought process is not a high priority. However, CP6's, if you sincerely and privately ask them about why they do or think certain ways. They might explain and in turn be open to another opinion they didn't see. That self-doubt keeps us open.

    FYI. I really think Brandi Glanville from RHOBH is a great example of a CP6.
    ~Live and learn from fools and from sages~




    Shameless Self-Promotion:MDP2525's Den and the Start of Motorcycle Maintenance

  2. #12

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    Ah, okay. I do think you are misunderstanding the internal world of 6s, though. We don't really think in terms of personal morality, save perhaps 6s with a strong 1 fix. The right to cast stones is a situational empowerment and dissipates with restoration of equality. It is not personal and has nothing to do with seeing oneself as the "good guy". It's just about wanting to level the playing field.
    This is true. In my counterphobic moods, I'm more about taking people down a peg, when they get a little to high and mighty.

    For example, in University, there was this one girl who dominated class discussions, pompously ranting about her philosophical theories. On the rare occasions she did shut up, she would often snicker/smirk while other people expressed their ideas. After about a week of that shit, I decided that I would dedicate the rest of the semester to debating her/backing up her opponents. I seriously wore her down, because I am never more energetic and "on" then when I am facing someone I perceive to be a bully. Eventually, she backed off a little bit, and I immediately eased up. Order had been restored. I eventually became friends with her.

    It wasn't so much a moral crusade, as it was cutting down the tallest blade of grass.

  3. #13
    Administrator Array highlander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    6w5 sx/sp
    Socionics
    ILI Ni
    Posts
    16,394

    Default

    First, I think your analysis in that post is excellent. Comments below.

    Quote Originally Posted by MDP2525 View Post
    Okay. So things rarely start that way for the CP6. You mention self-righteousness as a factor in motivation of behavior. I'm not saying it can't look that way but from the CP6 perspective - it is completely not. CP6's generally fight a LOT of self doubt. Like, tremendous. What we have is "group-righteousness". We are usually a strong proponent of the underdog. We don't like unfairness - at all. A CP6 guards that very strongly.
    I don't think I'm a self-righteous person at all. It's not in the DNA. I have always been a strong proponent of the underdog. I actually like being the underdog myself. It's thrilling to be completely underestimated by people and shock them with things you accomplish. The self-doubt thing is a problem because it can erode your confidence. I believe one of the most important things an Enneagram 6 can do is to criticize themselves less. We are extremely self critical.

    Quote Originally Posted by MDP2525 View Post

    In fact, as a child, I once stood up to an entire class who was bullying a fellow classmate. She was just crying at her desk while people were throwing insults. I thought, enough is enough. That is a good side of a CP6's crusading. Was that self-righteous to assume she needed help and that I could be that person? Maybe not in that case but this is the thought process of a CP6. "What jimmy is doing is not fair. I've seen jimmy do this x number of times before. Now it's time to speak up and stop jimmy from -------." So the problem is irrelevant to the CP6. The thought pattern is the same.
    So are you saying my crusade against bullying on the forum as of late has it's origins in being a CP6??? That would be fascinating. Of course I'm not the only one who thought it was a problem .

    Quote Originally Posted by MDP2525 View Post

    What looks like impulsive judgement is really observation of action over time. CP6's are keen on this but unfortunately rarely verbally express these "proofs". So it can look like arrogance/self-righteous crusading with no merit. Personally, when asked why I "treat so and so that way" and I have explained "next time you are around said person watch what they do in this circumstance, they will do x, and y (selfish or fucked up behavior)". People have come back to me and said "I really wish you didn't tell me that. Now I see what you are saying".

    Totally. But the CP6 is not the one casting the first stone. They are inherently reactive. Can they make mistakes on their observational conclusions? Yes. Can they over-react? Yes! This is probably what you are seeing - a CP6 reacting and possibly not having critical information. Or a less mature CP6 who hasn't learned which battles to forget and which to fight. The more mature and balanced a CP6 is, the more patience and time they have before reacting.

    They will often be seen acting aggressively because once they decide to go after a cause or person (after that period of personally silently gathering observations, etc) They take action against said threat. This looks super aggressive and often is. CP6's think it's obvious what the other party is doing and explaining their thought process is not a high priority. However, CP6's, if you sincerely and privately ask them about why they do or think certain ways. They might explain and in turn be open to another opinion they didn't see. That self-doubt keeps us open.
    The careful observation part - yes absolutely. That is dead on. The inherent reactive part - yes. I'm never the one to cast the first stone as you said. It's also never an impulsive judgment. Maybe it's like there can be an inflection point. I have a tendency to go too far in defending others to the point of it being detrimental to my personal credibility. I've done that too many times to count. It is rare for me to go on the offensive against someone. That takes a lot and it won't be what they did to me but what they have done to others that will be the trigger. It's probably not a good place to be for someone who manages to get to there.

    Please provide feedback on my Nohari and Johari Window by clicking here: Nohari/Johari

    Tri-type 639
    Likes MDP2525 liked this post

  4. #14
    Sugar Hiccup Array OrangeAppled's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4w5 sp/sx
    Socionics
    IEI Ni
    Posts
    7,466

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    I don't know if CP6s are any more likely to engage in projection than anyone else.
    I don't think this is true either. I've heard this said of 6s, and I think it's more that every type will project their fixation onto others. So I see 6s projecting their fears, what threatens them, and how they might react onto others. I also see projection of the integration points - projecting people seeking achievement or attractiveness for security (3) and projecting a fear of their own relaxing (ie letting guard down) as lazy onto others who are not as hyper-vigilant.

    But a 5, for example, projects their own emptiness onto others, finding them needy and demanding, fearing that others are going to overtake them in their lust (as they fear their own desires overtaking them), etc. That's just a brief description of how projection takes place in any type.
    "Charlotte sometimes dreams a wall around herself. But it's always with love - So much love it looks like everything else. Charlotte Sometimes - So far away, glass sealed and pretty." - The Cure

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx - 451| RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive
    Likes greenfairy liked this post

  5. #15
    Rainy Day Woman Array MDP2525's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    MBTI
    ISTP
    Enneagram
    6w5 sx/sp
    Posts
    5,130

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I don't think this is true either. I've heard this said of 6s, and I think it's more that every type will project their fixation onto others. So I see 6s projecting their fears, what threatens them, and how they might react onto others. I also see projection of the integration points - projecting people seeking achievement or attractiveness for security (3) and projecting a fear of their own relaxing (ie letting guard down) as lazy onto others who are not as hyper-vigilant.

    But a 5, for example, projects their own emptiness onto others, finding them needy and demanding, fearing that others are going to overtake them in their lust (as they fear their own desires overtaking them), etc. That's just a brief description of how projection takes place in any type.
    That's a good observation. I agree.
    ~Live and learn from fools and from sages~




    Shameless Self-Promotion:MDP2525's Den and the Start of Motorcycle Maintenance

  6. #16
    Rainy Day Woman Array MDP2525's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    MBTI
    ISTP
    Enneagram
    6w5 sx/sp
    Posts
    5,130

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Forever_Jung View Post
    This is true. In my counterphobic moods, I'm more about taking people down a peg, when they get a little to high and mighty.

    For example, in University, there was this one girl who dominated class discussions, pompously ranting about her philosophical theories. On the rare occasions she did shut up, she would often snicker/smirk while other people expressed their ideas. After about a week of that shit, I decided that I would dedicate the rest of the semester to debating her/backing up her opponents. I seriously wore her down, because I am never more energetic and "on" then when I am facing someone I perceive to be a bully. Eventually, she backed off a little bit, and I immediately eased up. Order had been restored. I eventually became friends with her.

    It wasn't so much a moral crusade, as it was cutting down the tallest blade of grass.
    This a perfect example of a typical "CP6" gesture. Question: If you did not succeed in taking her down a peg, what would happen to your mood/actions? Would they worsen?

    Personally, I think this is where CP6's can go off the deep end and lose credibility like @highlander said. If they aren't successful in standing up for others, hampered by others, or receive criticism by the very people we are helping - then the "crusade" can go south. Then it can become personal and self-defeating and this is when the CP6 would do well to back off and bide time until the odds are in his/her favor.

    I had this happen myself and I learned from it. I won't react unless I see an excellent chance of success. This has also caused me to plan ahead and strategize better about the "problem" and how best to accomplish a viable solution.
    ~Live and learn from fools and from sages~




    Shameless Self-Promotion:MDP2525's Den and the Start of Motorcycle Maintenance
    Likes geedoenfj liked this post

  7. #17
    Administrator Array highlander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    6w5 sx/sp
    Socionics
    ILI Ni
    Posts
    16,394

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Forever_Jung View Post
    This is true. In my counterphobic moods, I'm more about taking people down a peg, when they get a little to high and mighty.

    For example, in University, there was this one girl who dominated class discussions, pompously ranting about her philosophical theories. On the rare occasions she did shut up, she would often snicker/smirk while other people expressed their ideas. After about a week of that shit, I decided that I would dedicate the rest of the semester to debating her/backing up her opponents. I seriously wore her down, because I am never more energetic and "on" then when I am facing someone I perceive to be a bully. Eventually, she backed off a little bit, and I immediately eased up. Order had been restored. I eventually became friends with her.
    I like the part about becoming friends afterwards. I would absolutely do that.

    Quote Originally Posted by MDP2525 View Post
    This a perfect example of a typical "CP6" gesture. Question: If you did not succeed in taking her down a peg, what would happen to your mood/actions? Would they worsen?

    Personally, I think this is where CP6's can go off the deep end and lose credibility like @highlander said. If they aren't successful in standing up for others, hampered by others, or receive criticism by the very people we are helping - then the "crusade" can go south. Then it can become personal and self-defeating and this is when the CP6 would do well to back off and bide time until the odds are in his/her favor.

    I had this happen myself and I learned from it. I won't react unless I see an excellent chance of success. This has also caused me to plan ahead and strategize better about the "problem" and how best to accomplish a viable solution.
    Good points there. I honestly don't mind taking some bullets for something or someone I strongly believe in when I think will make a difference in the long term. The worst thing of all is when the person you've been taking the bullets for intentionally and consciously betrays you. They may not know of course that you've been taking those bullets for them because it's not something you talk about.

    Please provide feedback on my Nohari and Johari Window by clicking here: Nohari/Johari

    Tri-type 639

  8. #18
    wants Mifune clone minion Array Z Buck McFate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    MBTI
    INfJ
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Posts
    3,264

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    The right to cast stones is a situational empowerment and dissipates with restoration of equality. It is not personal and has nothing to do with seeing oneself as the "good guy". It's just about wanting to level the playing field.
    The thing about ‘restoration of equality’ though- the point I was trying to make is that when some CP6s act like self-contained judge and jury on their own, they actually end up unleveling the playing field. They’ll knock people off of imagined pedestals- which is to say they take people already on a level playing field and take them down a couple notches because of a perceived slight. At that point, I ‘get’ that they aren’t consciously doing this for the image of being the ‘good guy’ (to themselves or anyone else) BUT they must feel like the ‘good guy’ to feel like they are capable of being judge and jury on their own?

    As I explain in the next response to MDP, I think a problem here is that I keep referring to ‘extreme end’ behavior while responding and I’m not making that clear. I do not think most e6s walk around with a stone in their hand just waiting for the next opportunity to project something for a “warranted” character assault <- I might accidentally be coming across like that’s what I think though.



    Quote Originally Posted by MDP2525 View Post
    So this is where I think you are misunderstanding the interpretation of CP6 behavior. First, I'm going to say this phenomenon you are describing with CP6's, if not reigned in, can be damaging to people - even to the CP6. We often get hung with our own noose when we lose the "big picture" of what we are "crusading" for. In turn, we can look petty and vindictive. It's a CP6 off the rails, not a CP6 in control and effective.

    I think a problem in communication here is that I’m not trying to say I think all CP6s are self-righteous. I’m only describing the extreme end that I see sometimes, it's something that really bothers me- when I see people on a level playing field being stampeded because of projected pedestals. This is something that seems (to me) specific to CP6, to stampede people in the name of Justice. But you are absolutely right, this is not even close to the average everyday experience of e6 or CP e6.

    This all started because I wanted to point out that it seems to me like e6s ‘block information to protect their ego’ like everyone else- and tried describing the extreme example that comes to mind when I think “counterphobic 6”. But maybe the average everyday experience of CP 6 is so far from that extreme end that it wasn’t productive.

    And actually, I’m not sure I even know what ‘healthy’ CP 6 looks like- so I’m not trying to describe (or make any guesses about) that motivation at all. I’m going to guess that wouldn’t come across as impulsive self-righteous reactivity to me though.

    And now I’m curious- are there any other famous characters that seem to resonate with y’all as healthy versions of CP6? (I had to google “RHOBH”- I’ve never watched it and really can’t stand shows like that, so I’m hoping other examples come to mind.)


    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    I don't know if CP6s are any more likely to engage in projection than anyone else. I can say that most certainly this is an issue that I've had in the past. I learned about the shadow and projection in a management development class a long time ago and after that realized just how much I engaged in it. It was a process over many years to catch myself when I was doing it. So, I try to be very conscious of it. I am also quick to pick up when other people are engaging in this kind of behavior, which I guess is also projection in a way . The person that comes to my mind that is the worst at this - criticizes others for the very things they do themselves and seems oblivious to their own personal engaging in that behavior claims to be an Enneagram 5. I wonder if that 5 is really a 6? Hmmm....
    I would guess e6 doesn’t actually engage in projection more than other types- but they might get more irritated by it? Like, I suspect assumptions about others’ motivations don’t occur more often in e6 heads, but e6s get more worked up about these assumptions than most people?

    And honestly- about the last statement- I’ve seen some people who identify as e5 behave this way, and it makes me suspect they’re actually CP6 (if not just having a very strong 6 wing). It’s not that I think e5 is without faults- but reactivity with the outside world generally isn’t one of them. 5s err more in the direction of apathy and inactivity, imo.
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

    5w4 sx/sp Johari / Nohari

  9. #19
    Administrator Array highlander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    6w5 sx/sp
    Socionics
    ILI Ni
    Posts
    16,394

    Default

    I think there are a lot of 6s that are listed as other types because they don't like the 6 description (plus it's the most complicated type to understand).

    I talked to someone at work that's really into Enneagram and she seemed surprised I'm CP or SX because I come across as being so calm and not exhibiting some of those things you mention @Z Buck McFate.

    Please provide feedback on my Nohari and Johari Window by clicking here: Nohari/Johari

    Tri-type 639
    Likes MDP2525 liked this post

  10. #20
    wants Mifune clone minion Array Z Buck McFate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    MBTI
    INfJ
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Posts
    3,264

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    I talked to someone at work that's really into Enneagram and she seemed surprised I'm CP or SX because I come across as being so calm and not exhibiting some of those things you mention @Z Buck McFate.
    Yep. Something tells me that I don't register normal CP6 behavior in my association with "CP6" because that association is wrapped up in the extreme end stuff.

    I'd really like to hear more about this 'normal CP6'. Lol.


    eta: Those extreme end-ers....they're why CP6 normies can't have nice things. They totally ruin it for the rest of you, and it's why people don't even want to identify as e6.


    eta 2: Hey, is Peter from Fringe an example of stable CP6, you think? (directed at anyone, not just highlander- if highlander even watches that show) Or Wilson from the show House? Or Forever_Jung from Typo C?
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

    5w4 sx/sp Johari / Nohari

Page 2 of 12 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. [INTJ] Ask an INTJ
    By logan235711 in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 870
    Last Post: 05-22-2015, 05:04 AM
  2. Ask Me a Question
    By reason in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 113
    Last Post: 01-30-2009, 12:47 PM
  3. [ISTJ] Ask the ISTJ
    By RansomedbyFire in forum The SJ Guardhouse (ESFJ, ISFJ, ESTJ, ISTJ)
    Replies: 74
    Last Post: 10-18-2008, 02:01 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •