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Thread: Ask a CP6...

  1. #111
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    e6s, do this one!! (Please.)


    Part of why I'm curious to hear answers is that I'm curious how many different conceptions people have for the phrase "e6 testing"- I'm wondering if that very phrase brings up different things for different people.
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  2. #112
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anaximander View Post
    How do 6es handle social rejection?
    As well as what others have said, my reaction is to think those people aren't worth being friends with. And also blame myself for being awkward or weird or dysfunctional or whatever. Not so healthy.

    Quote Originally Posted by gromit View Post
    E6:

    Tell me about "testing" what is it and why you do it

    And how it is different from how others/other types might "test"
    Testing for me is showing my aggressive or otherwise dark side to see if they can still accept and love me. Or, pushing with questions or actions to make them show me they are trustworthy. I'm not an expert on the other numbers yet, but I feel like the motivations and mode of expression is just different. 6s care about different things and don't trust unless it's proven beyond the shadow of a doubt. A 4 for example might feel some sense of reassurance with a different response than a 6, and might be upset because of something rooted in emotion rather than plain suspicion. They also would react to perceived possible insecurity less quickly and sharply. An 8 will test because they are always pushing out their energy, looking for something to connect with. They want others to push back. 6s just want people to put up with it and care that we are scared.

  3. #113

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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    As well as what others have said, my reaction is to think those people aren't worth being friends with. And also blame myself for being awkward or weird or dysfunctional or whatever. Not so healthy.



    Testing for me is showing my aggressive or otherwise dark side to see if they can still accept and love me. Or, pushing with questions or actions to make them show me they are trustworthy. I'm not an expert on the other numbers yet, but I feel like the motivations and mode of expression is just different. 6s care about different things and don't trust unless it's proven beyond the shadow of a doubt. A 4 for example might feel some sense of reassurance with a different response than a 6, and might be upset because of something rooted in emotion rather than plain suspicion. They also would react to perceived possible insecurity less quickly and sharply. An 8 will test because they are always pushing out their energy, looking for something to connect with. They want others to push back. 6s just want people to put up with it and care that we are scared.
    This is SO perceptive @greenfairy!

    4's can push or test or 'expose the ugly' and this may even present as 'suspicion'. But, it has nothing to do with the other person, no lack of trust. It is about the 4's own past experiences or perceived inadequacies. The inability to trust THEMSELVES. Once they realize the person understands/accepts they have flaws, they are trusting and (if healthy) will not test further.

    I also agree with the aspect of 4's being slower to react and more mildly. I am not saying this is 'better'! Regardless, the innocent person being tested will still suffer hurt or frustration. (ie. Is it better to be stabbed by someone easy-going and friendly, or be stabbed quickly by someone angry? Bottom line: Who wants to be stabbed!?!)
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  4. #114
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloudpatrol View Post
    This is SO perceptive @greenfairy!

    4's can push or test or 'expose the ugly' and this may even present as 'suspicion'. But, it has nothing to do with the other person, no lack of trust. It is about the 4's own past experiences or perceived inadequacies. The inability to trust THEMSELVES. Once they realize the person understands/accepts they have flaws, they are trusting and (if healthy) will not test further.

    I also agree with the aspect of 4's being slower to react and more mildly. I am not saying this is 'better'! Regardless, the innocent person being tested will still suffer hurt or frustration. (ie. Is it better to be stabbed by someone easy-going and friendly, or be stabbed quickly by someone angry? Bottom line: Who wants to be stabbed!?!)
    Thanks, and that makes a lot of sense with E4s. I guess my 4 fix shows itself in what I wrote. But I can see the differences in core clearly too. Like, which do you react to first and more strongly, trust in yourself or others? Ultimately 6s are reacting to not trusting themselves, but they project this onto the external world. 4s want to trust themselves to be worthy and loveable, and 6s want to trust themselves to physically protect themselves and establish a support system. 4s I guess project onto others too, but I feel like they are more aware of their emotional reactions and the motivations behind them.
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  5. #115

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    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    e6s, do this one!! (Please.)


    Part of why I'm curious to hear answers is that I'm curious how many different conceptions people have for the phrase "e6 testing"- I'm wondering if that very phrase brings up different things for different people.
    I'm primarily phobic, so while I totally get what @greenfairy is describing I tend to be much lighter about testing. I want to test people, but I don't want to alienate them, and turn my abandonment paranoia into a self-fulfilling prophecy.

    I don't try to smash the ice beneath my feet through stomping up and down and shouting, but I will inconspicuously put pressure on the surface with my feet to feel for any give, or drill a tiny hole in the surface and slide a tape measure down to see how far I have to go until I hit water. Mind you, a lot of this instinctive, almost unconscious behaviour, and it sounds waaaay creepier when described consciously.

    In less metaphorical terms I will make a seemingly tossed-off joke and privately gauge their reaction, or lightly prod/tease them when they are under duress. Before I am truly vulnerable with them I will often give them faux vulnerability and see how they handle that before I give them the real thing. If they mess up, I won't necessarily write them off, I will just decide they are not ready yet, and maybe give them more practice with fake vulnerability later.Aside from testing them, I also privately study their relationship with other people and extrapolate that into how they might treat me. With slow subtle tests like that, you can eventually work your way deeper into my inner circle. It took me ISTJ friend about 10 years to clear my tests, but now I would pretty much die for her.

    I have an ENFP friend who will try to test people, and then when you violate her trust she pounces all over you. But when I catch people I don't attack them, I just pretend not to notice and then later I will make a note of it in their "file" (this is a metaphorical file I speak of, though I am not too far from keeping actual files on people lol). When I start to consider promoting them to higher levels of trust, I will review all the commendations, reprimands, etc. and make my decision.

    I know it's not quite as surefire a method as the old "bomb everyone and see who survives the blast" test, but I don't want to throw whatever amount of loyalty they do feel to me out the window. Because even a slight or moderate amount of loyalty is useful as long as you know what you are working with. Not everyone has to be my rock, I can settle for allies. Perhaps over time our mutual trust will grow into something more.

    But I think that's the phobic approach, counterphobics seem to be more like: "you are either completely loyal to me or I don't need you." While I sure would like complete loyalty from someone, I tend to have a more pragmatic view about it all. Even my mother has betrayed my trust a few times, and she's about as good as they come (as far as humans go anyway). If I can't trust her, why should I completely trust my cousins or my coworkers for that matter?

  6. #116
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Interesting info on phobic 6s @Forever_Jung! I can relate to some of that, the structure of the building of trust, but I am more as you say all or nothing with it as well as quick to confrontation and aggression. I hadn't thought of loyalty as a gray area before- that might be a worthwhile thing to cultivate. To me the gray area has been keeping someone at arms length- and that doesn't often happen after being close. Like a magnet which will stick to another one within a certain range but outside of it has no pull.

    Do you know your instinctual variant? I bet that has something to do with it too. Unless you're also sx first- in which case never mind.
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  7. #117
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    I have 2 questions
    1) Do CP 6s tend to have disdain for P 6s? Like project their own fear of vulnerability onto them and see it as weakness?
    (*I'm speaking more about the archetype than actual people, but I wonder how much it translates. I don't know of anyone in my life I do this to, mostly because I don't approve of it, but it's also true that I know more 6s of the CP variety so I tend to attract them for whatever reason.)
    1a) You know that uber conservative, fundamentalist religious, hating critical thinking, worshiping authority type of person- are they likely very phobic 6 SJs? I particularly dislike that sort of person. It's a shadow part of myself I run as far away from as possible.
    2) How do you all act when you are drunk? I am not a very outwardly aggressive person, contrary to what I say in my posts: but I notice that the most prominent change in myself when I get drunk is I lose my will to fight and I emphasize my Fe. I'm not very inhibited in general except for some social anxiety, but that doesn't really change.

  8. #118

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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    Interesting info on phobic 6s @Forever_Jung! I can relate to some of that, the structure of the building of trust, but I am more as you say all or nothing with it as well as quick to confrontation and aggression. I hadn't thought of loyalty as a gray area before- that might be a worthwhile thing to cultivate. To me the gray area has been keeping someone at arms length- and that doesn't often happen after being close. Like a magnet which will stick to another one within a certain range but outside of it has no pull.

    Do you know your instinctual variant? I bet that has something to do with it too. Unless you're also sx first- in which case never mind.
    I'm not sure! I have never been too into the instinctual variants, but definitely not sx first. I am pretty sure sx-first by definition are CP.

    I would guess I am so or sp first. Maybe so/sx. I really don't worry about tangible/material means of survival like money/home security in the same way most sp's might. But I AM very preoccupied with people and having their support.

    Then again, I might just not get what all that variant means. I have always found the single type with a wing complication enough.

    I am wondering how you CP guys might approach similar situations to what I describe below...

    I have picked up weird/negative/ambivalent vibes from a few of my coworkers lately and am now "monitoring the threat". These sorts of concerns almost always come to nothing (about half of the time the person had just been sleep-deprived/queasy/etc), but I just feel better when I stay on top of it. Would a counterphobic 6 bother their head about such things?

    Not only do small signals like that put me on guard, but I will also approach these sorts of "threats" by doing the following:

    A.) Subtly surveilling their behaviour until they revert to their usual rhythms.
    B.) Lightly probing both the person in question, as well as any available people who might have some insight into what is going on in this person's life (relationship troubles, upset about work, lack of sleep/illness, etc). I need data to furnish my theories!
    C.) Being extra nice and thoughtful to this person to smooth over anything that might need to be smoothed over that I am just not aware of yet. Worst case scenario, you have just cheered someone up for no reason.

    How would an e6 CP handle a similar situation? Would they be more confrontational to force the issue (real or imagined) into the open?

  9. #119
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forever_Jung View Post
    I'm not sure! I have never been too into the instinctual variants, but definitely not sx first. I am pretty sure sx-first by definition are CP.

    I would guess I am so or sp first. Maybe so/sx. I really don't worry about tangible/material means of survival like money/home security in the same way most sp's might. But I AM very preoccupied with people and having their support.

    Then again, I might just not get what all that variant means. I have always found the single type with a wing complication enough.

    I am wondering how you CP guys might approach similar situations to what I describe below...

    I have picked up weird/negative/ambivalent vibes from a few of my coworkers lately and am now "monitoring the threat". These sorts of concerns almost always come to nothing (about half of the time the person had just been sleep-deprived/queasy/etc), but I just feel better when I stay on top of it. Would a counterphobic 6 bother their head about such things?

    Not only do small signals like that put me on guard, but I will also approach these sorts of "threats" by doing the following:

    A.) Subtly surveilling their behaviour until they revert to their usual rhythms.
    B.) Lightly probing both the person in question, as well as any available people who might have some insight into what is going on in this person's life (relationship troubles, upset about work, lack of sleep/illness, etc). I need data to furnish my theories!
    C.) Being extra nice and thoughtful to this person to smooth over anything that might need to be smoothed over that I am just not aware of yet. Worst case scenario, you have just cheered someone up for no reason.

    How would an e6 CP handle a similar situation? Would they be more confrontational to force the issue (real or imagined) into the open?
    I don't pick up on that stuff as much as a lot of people, probably a sign of being So last. For whatever reason, this usually just bypasses my conscious mind and goes into the unconscious to fuel whatever paranoid negativity about my social life is there. I've become a lot more conscious of this and realized that a lot of negative assumptions I make about people's attitudes are incorrect. I used to just avoid talking to people if they weren't friendly most of the time, but just keep pushing myself to occasionally be friendly to them in case I can change things positively, and try to act in ways I think they will find likable. Now I just do that, but don't worry too much about whether any specific person likes me. A lot of it is unconscious though. I feel like I need to be proactive in creating harmony by confronting disharmony and transforming it, even if that is just doing my own thing and projecting harmony in my attitudes and actions.

    I guess I could say I do c. a fair amount, but try to avoid being insecure about it.

  10. #120
    Rainy Day Woman MDP2525's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forever_Jung View Post
    I'm not sure! I have never been too into the instinctual variants, but definitely not sx first. I am pretty sure sx-first by definition are CP.

    I would guess I am so or sp first. Maybe so/sx. I really don't worry about tangible/material means of survival like money/home security in the same way most sp's might. But I AM very preoccupied with people and having their support.

    Then again, I might just not get what all that variant means. I have always found the single type with a wing complication enough.

    I am wondering how you CP guys might approach similar situations to what I describe below...

    I have picked up weird/negative/ambivalent vibes from a few of my coworkers lately and am now "monitoring the threat". These sorts of concerns almost always come to nothing (about half of the time the person had just been sleep-deprived/queasy/etc), but I just feel better when I stay on top of it. Would a counterphobic 6 bother their head about such things?

    Not only do small signals like that put me on guard, but I will also approach these sorts of "threats" by doing the following:

    A.) Subtly surveilling their behaviour until they revert to their usual rhythms.
    B.) Lightly probing both the person in question, as well as any available people who might have some insight into what is going on in this person's life (relationship troubles, upset about work, lack of sleep/illness, etc). I need data to furnish my theories!
    C.) Being extra nice and thoughtful to this person to smooth over anything that might need to be smoothed over that I am just not aware of yet. Worst case scenario, you have just cheered someone up for no reason.

    How would an e6 CP handle a similar situation? Would they be more confrontational to force the issue (real or imagined) into the open?
    I could see myself doing A and B. I wouldn't do C.

    When more entranced, I could see myself force the issue by testing to know where I stood if A and B didn't give me enough information.
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