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[Type 4] The difference between 4's

Galena

Silver and Lead
Joined
Mar 12, 2013
Messages
3,786
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
[MENTION=18576]Sanjuro[/MENTION], what are your favorite sources for tritype in particular, as you're one of the people most interested in it around here?

While I'm too busy right now to do so, I intend to put something together about 469/649/964 in particular. I know your tritype examples in particular were individuals that do not represent the whole of a type's potential, but I was reminded of how in the general world of tritype descriptions and popular forums, information about the healthy potential of this combo is hard to find because not just one but all three individual types in it are among the enneagram's most underestimated.
 
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ndovjtjcaqidthi

Guest
459--I've never met a 4 of this tritype (with the possible exception of my boss), but I associate the tritype in general with an aura of peace and melancholy and acceptance. I find their presence to be most comforting, radiating a quiet benevolence.

:thinking:
 

Kasper

Diabolical
Joined
May 30, 2008
Messages
11,590
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ENTP
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9w8
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so/sx
I'm most likely a 459. I have had it said to me that I seem friendly, calm, put together, etc. Sometimes I get the feeling that I impress and sometimes intimidate people with how purposeful I seem. That always takes me a-back, because none of that is how I feel. What people see is me attempting to impose something in my ever unruly innerworld, and that little mess is what I identify with.

A triple withdrawn extrovert? o_O
 

Chad of the OttomanEmpire

Give me a fourth dot.
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Jun 9, 2013
Messages
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NeTi
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478
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sx/so
Interesting thoughts, [MENTION=18576]Sanjuro[/MENTION]. I don't disagree with how it relates to me personally. I can't say I know a lot of 4s IRL to say about the rest but it doesn't seem way off.

I would say, under your theory, I would be a 1-fixed 4. I was disappointed that you excluded the 451 tritype (which is what I would be). But then I don't know how common it is...
I've never met a 451, and haven't really worked with any enough to comment, sorry. I'm basically only speaking from my own personal experience on this one!

Maybe you could put up a few key points on the way you are?? I'd be interested to hear!

[MENTION=18576]Sanjuro[/MENTION], what are your favorite sources for tritype in particular, as you're one of the people most interested in it around here?

While I'm too busy right now to do so, I intend to put something together about 469/649/964 in particular. I know your tritype examples in particular were individuals that do not represent the whole of a type's potential, but I was reminded of how in the general world of tritype descriptions and popular forums, information about the healthy potential of this combo is hard to find because not just one but all three individual types in it are among the enneagram's most underestimated.
That's a very fair point--and I'd love to hear more about the experiences of 469s. Best of luck in your compilations!!!

In terms of tritype knowledge, I've basically drawn my information from how I see it functioning in my life in general--I find the theory to be a very satisfactory explanation for my own typing difficulties, as I do lots of things that 4s technically "shouldn't" do.

That, plus the information I've drawn from a few others via Skype, as well as people's thoughts about it on various message forums. I've spent a lot of time just searching around to resolve discrepencies in my understanding.

The most comprehensive thing I've seen is the Fauvres' booklet on the type, but unfortunately, it says basically the same things as you can find on PerC, and it costs $40. And, my computer was stolen so I am no longer in possession of it so I cannot offer to let anyone borrow a copy.

It's one of those instances where you have to do your own research and build your own understanding.

Have you ever considered being another tritype?
 
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ndovjtjcaqidthi

Guest
Look, I'm not here to play games with you. I know nothing about you and that's why I was curious.

Why would anyone be sure of something like a type? Because they relate to the descriptions. I didn't even need to post this.
 
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ndovjtjcaqidthi

Guest
Now it's my turn: :thinking: :shrug:

More goes into than that.

First, if this back and forth is upsetting you, feel free to not reply to me anymore. I'm just doing this for fun.

What more goes into it?
 

Chad of the OttomanEmpire

Give me a fourth dot.
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What more goes into it?
Well since you ask, it's really more about core motivations.

I find it a bit odd you're reading "upset" into my replies, however. I figured, if anything, you were somewhat upset.
 

Chad of the OttomanEmpire

Give me a fourth dot.
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Jun 9, 2013
Messages
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Which are part of the descriptions?
Partly, of course--but I can identify with things from 7 and 1 when clearly I'm not being motivated that way. Likewise, there's plenty of 4 stuff I don't see happening in my life, yet I know I've built my existence around finding meaning and envy of those who seem to have more of it than I do.

I don't much identify with type 6, yet I am certain it's my head-fix. All I'm saying is, it's just not always obvious--not necessarily in your case, but generally speaking.
 

Southern Kross

Away with the fairies
Joined
Dec 22, 2008
Messages
2,910
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INFP
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4w5
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so/sp
^ I'm a 1-fixed 4 also. And a 451. But I think having sx higher in my stack & having an so blindspot makes me a bit more fiery.

No one has ever called me "gentle" before and I'm no basket-case. I can appear to "have it all together" to people, kind of irritatingly perfect like a 1, which can lead to people zeroing in on where I do fall short (ie. running late, not having a friendly demeanor, general moodiness, etc). Some of this sounds like the sp-dom 4 too though.
Interesting. :thinking:

My 1-like appearance of perfection is more in knowledge, ideology and discernment - are you like this too? That is a way of "having it together" I suppose (eg. knowing what's 'right', the best way to approach things, or where things are going), but for me it doesn't translate to the appearance of practical competency in life (not that I come across as a screw up or anything). I guess a Sp 4 will convey a stronger sense of self-possession, perhaps?
 

Amargith

Hotel California
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Nov 5, 2008
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[MENTION=18576]Sanjuro[/MENTION] Very interesting list...
[MENTION=6561]OrangeAppled[/MENTION] I find it very interesting to see how you work as such. You're so...different from me, yet you're one of the most internally consistent people I've seen and your summation here of how you work is pretty damned eye-opening and wel...'duh'-inducing.

In the interest of adding to the list:


Im 9-fixed, I'd say, Ne-dom, 497 (479) and sx-dom, but a w5.

One thing I've noticed is that....being an Ne-dom, sx-dom and a 4 is *NOT* a good combination, especially with a 9 fix. You're so hyper focused on others, that you do lose yourself in them, especially with the 9 tendency of flexing for others. Although I do lose myself in others, I also find that the need for perfection driven by the need for understanding of others swings me back to my Fi . At the same time, I tire out really easily with others. I tend to be a sprinter - intense, in bursts and god do i need down time afterwards, in an attempt to regain myself while cocooning, and processing what I've experienced, integrating it into the knowledge I'm gathering and the system I'm building. In fact, my Ne and my Fi test equally strong on tests. I feel like I live between two worlds, with a foot in each one. and when I step both into one world, I lose my balance. Lastly, my w5 makes me hesitant in navigating the outside world and prefer to bury myself in a good lab experiment, involving people, of course, or in books and theories. Which in turn leaves me...feeling disconnected and alone again, only to venture out again and repeat the cycle...

I guess my ideal habitat is one on one in depth exploration with another person who is equally interested in going deep. Sadly, that kind of thing doesn't happen *that* often in society.

In typical 4 style: it's damning to both be drawn to people like a moth and scared shitless of them. To have them be your lifeblood and your curse at the same time. And to never know where you end and they begin.
 

Standuble

New member
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Aug 23, 2011
Messages
1,149
[MENTION=5494]Amargith[/MENTION]: Your last paragraph doesn't seem fourish to me. I would think that the influence of others would be background noise (especially for a five winger) and it would not be enough for you to confuse their wants with your own. The boundaries between the self and the other should be more or less clear in the sand (and this is coming from someone who probably has a 9 fix (if not a 1 fix) in there somewhere.) But perhaps I am coming to the wrong conclusion.
 
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brainheart

Guest
[MENTION=18576]Sanjuro[/MENTION],

something I've noticed, tritype-wise:

451: way of thinking seems rock-solid, like nothing anyone else could say would change it. Come off as consistent. Hide reactivity behind competency. Often perceived as the sage.

461: Their artistic expression is the most abrasive and open of the one-fixed fours. Less likely to hide their reactivity, but it can come off as overly critical at times, and frequently negative. With this, however, comes the courage to be entirely honest in expressing how they feel.

471: More scattered but hard on themselves for being scattered. Tend to make art a little more playful because they aren't comfortable with completely showing their darkness, don't want to be too much of a downer. Like the novelty of innovation, want to think of a new way of expressing themselves. But they aren't into magical thinking like the 479, the one fix gives them sharp edges and a pragmatism.

I think all one-fixed fours can come off as a little elitist and snobby to others, even if they don't mean to be at all. The 'otherness' of four coupled with the tendency to lecture sets them apart. All are focused on improving in one way or another.
 
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