[Type 4] The difference between 4's

[Sunny Ghost]

[MENTION=5494]Amargith[/MENTION], I really don't relate to it at all. I can be closed off and difficult to access at times, but... I'm a lot more open and inclusive than that. More than anything, what I noticed in orangeappled and misty's posts made me think of the concept of syn-flow and contra-flow. So maybe that's why you, as a fellow contra-flow person, relate to it, I think there's an element of exclusion to the contra-flow types that isn't how I operate. Also, when I read their posts I thought of a person lighting a match and them immediately snuffing it out with their fingers. Meanwhile, I would encourage the flame to get bigger and brighter until it burnt my fingers. I also thought of big iron gates and them slamming them shut.

I really think the contra-flow vs syn-flow distinctions are some of the most obvious and right-on observations about instincts. It also shows how much difference a stacking makes.



From http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/content.php/133-Instinctual-Stackings

Syn-flow: sp → so → sx → sp
Stackings involved: sp/so → so/sx → sx/sp → sp/so
Direction: Compelled toward people. Acting upon and with others as a born insider i.e.- deeply human.

Contra-flow: sp → sx → so → sp
Stackings involved: sp/sx → sx/so → so/sp → sp/sx
Direction: Compelled against people. Seething belligerent outsiders; 'antisocial', provoking, reverse-flow change catalysts. In some profound sense, rejecting the human condition, their own and/or that of others.

The two flows move in the opposite directions. This antithesis can be seen if the instinctual stackings are compared in pairs:

so/sx - including, associating, affiliating, networking, incorporating, interconnecting, introducing, unifying, linking, bonding, annexing, cooperating, receiving
sx/so - excluding, eliminating, dividing, separating, contradicting, subverting, confronting, rebuffing, ridiculing, challenging, interrupting, reforming, rupturing

sx/sp - intensifying, escalating, rising, surging, enlivening, invigorating, accelerating, stimulating, energizing, vitalizing, reviving, animating, inspiriting
sp/sx - dulling, calming, quieting, grounding, descending, lowering, dampening, numbing, desensitizing, exhausting, deadening, extinguishing, making still

sp/so - conserving, protecting, maintaining, preserving, supplying, repairing, sustaining, stewarding
so/sp - utilizing, employing, implementing, expending, exercising, spending, capitalizing, expropriating

Maybe I don't fully understand this. Or maybe I don't fully understand myself.

 

[OrangeAppled]

See, I relate to this, but it is just *one* of my modes. I use this one to get some space, distance or when I need to enter a social arena from a place of strength - or want to make a dramatic entrance. It is one of the best ways to make for instance men who would normally harass you or grope you, stand back and actually respect your space.

I'll 'craft' and shift between these images as my environment requires it. While my preference is definitely to be openly vulnerable without having to be on my toes - which is something I am more and more inclined to only do with people I've vetted, unfortunately - I've even crafted the 'vulnerable image' into a specific defensive tactic as it allows for most of the benefits of being openly vulnerable while still being safe. Most people innately don't attack and disarm at the sight of it, and if they are of the kind that attack when smelling vulnerability, they tend to seriously underestimate me as all they see is weakness - which then tends to piss them off as they feel 'deceived' and robbed of what they considered an easy trophy.

I'm not so deliberate. I'd expect an ENFP to be better at handling their external image though, or at least more aware of their dynamic with others. There's a gap between my feeling and outer demeanor, which is part of what I meant to convey. I feel like I want to reach out to people, but have no arms. But this is not always the case nor forever the case with individuals. I've gotten better at expressing positive feeling that seems vulnerable to me. I had to get past "no one cares if I care" and convince myself people want & value my affection and personal interest.
The sp aspect is kind of martyr-ish & 1-ish... a turning on oneself & denial of fulfilling desires as a strange kind of protection of your own vulnerability & as some imagined "favor" to others.

For example, when I was younger, I might look at a group of people in some social situation and stay apart instead of taking a chair beside them, because I'd feel they would rather someone else sit there. To them, I was a snob; to me, I had rejected myself for them, saving them the trouble and me the humiliation. I suppose the difference here between an sp/sx and sp/so is that this attitude is more often directed at relationships where I'd desire something more intense but think this is unwanted by the other & might cause them to reject me as an obsessive creeper. It does pop up in social spheres too, as in my illustration, but I have enough disdain & disinterest at times to the point that I may actually be a snob, haha.

[MENTION=6561]OrangeAppled[/MENTION]'s metaphor of art in a glass case works.

In my case, the emotional preservation side is debateable. Though I keep how I feel about things to myself outside of a few mega-secure settings, there is a tension to my resting body that is involuntary and near impossible to conceal no matter how much I keep to myself in words and deeds; one could call that flashing your vulnerability. Ain't that much to be ornery about, but fear is another thing.

The real wall around me is physical. There is very little touch in my life, and that is no one's doing but my own. Jumping into cold water is the same kind of "here be dragons" zone, being shouted at, choreographed dancing, slimy foods. It hurts my knuckles to imagine throwing a punch because it's hard to fathom holding up out there: though I have the same instincts and bones as most, I lack awareness of them and thus don't trust that they'll be there (individiation: I don't have what the rest do).

Sure, I can be absolutely sumptuous with my aesthetic appearance, independent indulgences and my carriage (symbolic substitutes for real sensation, no doubt), but contact with earth, the genuine thing - that is crossing a hard line into another world. It might as well be, because I can comfortably do whatever I want once I take the leap of faith and get into my body. But what faith...faith that the laws of the universe are the same on the other side. Faith, one of the things in this world least natural to me.

And this illustrates a difference with a Ni & Fi 4w5 sp/sx I suppose. I'm more oblivious and/or overwhelmed by certain sensory stimuli (was scared of sports as a kid; daydreaming left me vulnerable to getting a ball to the head), and sometimes bored by it too. But not so much that I fear any of it. I'm most certainly ornery there, where avoidance of something is also a rejection of it not being refined or unusual enough. Although, this too I've overcome a lot. I'm not the music or literature snob I was once. This was a self-imposed alienation of course. Another way to create a gulf between me & others & feel it was hopeless to ever connect with anyone.

But literal touch from others is not something I put a wall up for... When I feel close to people & wanted by them, then I want to & will touch them, being quite affectionate & cuddly with romantic partners especially, but I had to work up to that too. The sense of shame would hold me back when younger. I anticipated so much rejection.

And then from this grew the bitter anger, which gave me an sx-y entitlement. My older ESFP e7w6 sister & I have something of a rivalry for affections of certain family members, even as we're close & get along, and there was a constant "I know SHE is your favorite" accusation to my mother growing up. And if I saw a "sure sign" of this, I'd blow up. I accused my mom once of putting photos of my sister in prettier frames than she put mine in, as some kind of evidence that I was less loved. This is not my everyday behavior, but evidence of the kind of angry envy below my surface that I don't display as much as sx-dom 4s.

[MENTION=17697]
The way I view tritype is that it's just another theory. Enneagram is also a theory. MBTI is a theory. I want to know where I stand within the context of each theory. Then I can decide which ones are actually useful for me personally. The more tools I have in the box, the better. Enneagram, tritype, MBTI, they are all tools.

I just don't think all tools/theories are created equal. I find it a detracts rather than adds. It's similar to Jungian theory vs Socionics. The latter I find to be less insightful into actual human nature.

I also caution against assuming that someone touts their tritype to be cool. This is true of some folks but not all.

I see a greater tendency in those drawn to this theory to approach it like astrology. This may not be true of you, but the focus seems to be like "this explains me" or even "this fates me" rather than "this is a way of grasping behaviors & mentalities rooted in false concepts of reality & myself". And as I said, IMO, the core type & the way it connects in the symbol to all the others is superior way of approaching how each fixation plays out in a psychology.

Maybe I don't fully understand this. Or maybe I don't fully understand myself.

I don't relate to it either. I'm too temperamental to fit that sp/sx "calm" energy. But perhaps around acquaintances I seem that way.

 

[Animal]

I just don't think all tools/theories are created equal. I find it a detracts rather than adds. It's similar to Jungian theory vs Socionics. The latter I find to be less insightful into actual human nature.

I agree with you about which theories to place weight on. Even before typing properly, I never felt comfortable "using tritype as an excuse." Core is most important, most helpful. I know what you mean about how it can detract for people who are less steeped in theory or don't understand the point of it, but the more cynical side of me says, is there hope for people who want to tout a label anyhow? =/

I see a greater tendency in those drawn to this theory to approach it like astrology. This may not be true of you, but the focus seems to be like "this explains me" or even "this fates me" rather than "this is a way of grasping behaviors & mentalities rooted in false concepts of reality & myself". And as I said, IMO, the core type & the way it connects in the symbol to all the others is superior way of approaching how each fixation plays out in a psychology.

This is very true. Even if someone is correctly typed, and bothers to dig in and figure themselves out, that's not the end-point of the theory.. it's a starting point. What is wonderful about enneagram is that it offers opportunities for growth - and many people completely ignore this portion because it's too hard to face. I will say though, figuring out my type initiated a lot of digging; and some of the things that 4s do to "improve' are things I had already done in teh past, knowing what my problems were; even if I couldn't put an e-type number to it immediately. But then there are other aspects I hadn't thought of.

Anyway, at base, I agree with you, and I am also annoyed by those people. I un-retired from PerC yesterday after two months away, and after posting on their 4 forum only twice, I came back to this thread and felt so refreshed by the people here who are actually discussing relevant aspects of theory.

 

[Sunny Ghost]

Is it not possible to be balanced in all three realms? sx, sp, so? [MENTION=7140]brainheart[/MENTION]

 

[Galena]

[MENTION=5494]Amargith[/MENTION] on "smoke and mirrors": I am at least as deliberate. I have been so as long as I can remember, so I dont know what the impetus was, but I have given up on ever being able to do anything "straight". That is, without a self-conscious course for it in mind. Or at least a vision of what the next [block o' time] ought to play like. Just make sure the agenda is honest and realistic and that I can calm myself in the face of other possibilities; that's how I keep myself in check.

 

[Chad of the OttomanEmpire]

The way I view tritype is that it's just another theory. Enneagram is also a theory. MBTI is a theory. I want to know where I stand within the context of each theory. Then I can decide which ones are actually useful for me personally. The more tools I have in the box, the better. Enneagram, tritype, MBTI, they are all tools.
[snip]
Touting one's tritype is no different than touting one's core type, if one sees their typing or trityping as a tool for personal growth and self-analysis.

I feel similarly. I find that the four simple categories (4w5, 486, Sx/soc, and Si-inferior--since I hesitate to represent myself as an "extrovert"), once correctly understood, succinctly pinpoint pretty much every problem I've ever had.

I dislike the idea that any of these categories makes me "cool". I've never been a cool kid, I'll never be. Instead, these things accurately describe my compulsions and weak points. I continue to use these theories and promote them to others for this reason.

As you have stated, Animal, my 8-fix is one of the things I was least comfortable to confirm. I was in literal denial of it for almost a year; I don't find it glamorous or bad-ass to be prone to physical violence, constant disobedience (stemming from disrespect) toward my own parents, bullying, or having a constant sense of War with Everyone. I've embarrassed myself in many ways owing specifically to this fix. When I read Naranjo the first time, I was uncomfortable to discover that he accurately nails things I've never spoken to another living soul and which are highly bizarre for a person of my gender.

I'm also grateful that we have tritype to account for these "double psychologies". It accounts for my double way of thinking and plainly demonstrates a central compulsion in my life, as well as accurately assigning me 3 centers of intelligence. It also helps me to understand just why I mistyped for so long.

Therefore, no touting. Only solving problems.

 

[Chad of the OttomanEmpire]

And with that, I will join the rest of the conversation:

1s: 153 [efficient, calculating, knowledge-driven, allergic to emotions]
2s: 297 [happy, giving, give to everyone, people pleasers]
3s: 378 [outgoing, conquerers, always on top, egomaniacs]
4s: 469 [shy, socially anxious, worried about not fitting in, quiet, lost in their thoughts & daydreams, insecure]
5s: 594 [conflict-averse, social-phobic, stuck in their heads]
phobic 6s: 694 [trying to please & mix in with others while secretly mistrusting them, easy going, unconfident]
cp 6s: 683 [fearless, wild, fear-mongering, up-in-arms, very 'out there']
7s: 729 [cheerful, agreeable, charming, bouncy, floaty, un-grounded]
8s: 835 [cold, reserved, competent, always on top, detached]
9s: 972 [easy-going, agreeable, giving]

That's an interesting way to look at it. I find that most descriptions are very, very 9-fix-biased. I've seen 3s, 4s, 6s, and 7s with an 8-fix all mistype (the 1-fix I've been following less, but this may be true as well). The 3s don't see themselves in that "vacuous, ingratiating suck up" taint that sometimes emerges. 8-fixed fours don't see themselves as "weak, impractical, and openly vulnerable" which much of the literature implies is true. The 6s don't see themselves as "passive-aggressive" and willing to yield to the pressure of others for security; the 7s see themselves as "too angry" to be such a happy, upbeat optimist.

I could go on, but I feel that many descriptions do have that bias as well. Thank you for pointing this out.

i don't know where else to say this but reading through the tritypes and maybe i'm not 729. i don't feel like i care about conflict that much really. it really doesn't bother me like it sounds like they're saying it does. i do try to help others resolve their conflict but not because conflict bothers me.

Sounds like it's your last fix. That one can be hard to ascertain--if there's a tritype that sounds more like you, that may be it. Give it some thought.

I'm uncertain of my own tritype.

4w5 for sure.

Can't decide between 6w7, 7w6, and 7w8.

And completely lost on my gut type: 8w9, 9w8, 9w1, 1w9, 1w2...?


So it's between:
4-6-8/4-8-6
4-6-9/4-9-6
4-6-1/4-1-6
4-7-8/4-8-7
4-7-9/4-9-7
4-7-1/4-1-7

I've been told I'm very mellow. I've also been told I'm uptight. I'm sweet, but can certainly be aggressive when I need to be. I'm not sure if there's a part of me that's an 8 or a part of me that's an annoyed 1. I also have bouts of extreme laziness and teeter between that with extreme motivation. I tend to fight for what I think is fair, and I've been told I have issues with authority. Which I don't necessarily think is the case, so much as I don't like to be wrong, and take a lot of pride in the things I do. So when an authority figure gets on to me for something, I tend to become a bit fiesty.

I'll give some unsolicited advice:

What you say here sounds like 6 and 1 to me, though that's not intended as an assessment by any means. In my experience, the 8 is not so much about "aggression" (which is partly how I didn't see it in my own case), but more a sense of War. Towards life.

1s, 6s, and 8s can all be fairness-oriented and will stick up for perceived injustices. Reactive types in general have issues with "other people telling me what to do". Just some thoughts.

Have you read through the tritype descriptions? It might give you a starting ground.

However, I think 4w5-5w6-9w1 is probably my best fit as far as tritype goes. With that comes a tendency to interiorize my intensity. I think it can make me look more sp/sx than sx/sp which confused me for a long while, because I'm pretty contained. I related so much to the obsessive/addictive/angry envy/need for a charge aspect of being a sexual four but people would say I didn't 'seem' sx/sp. So I tried on the sp/sx but it just seemed wrong, I'm really not that neurotic about self pres stuff, while I'm very neurotic about sexual issues. And I'm like an exploding atomic bomb internally. Internally I am extremely emotionally volatile. I am also bipolar, but I'm one of those bipolar people that no one would ever suspect of being bipolar, because everything is focused inward (unless I'm at my absolute worst, then watch out). I think to most people I seem easy-going, cerebral, and quietly dramatic. If they were to read my poetry they might change their mind.

[MENTION=17911]Animal[/MENTION], my one criticism of Naranjo's pov regarding fours being drastically different, instinct wise, is that most of us aren't purely one instinct. You can look at the instincts in a vacuum, but that doesn't mean people are going to look obviously that way. Some people the presentation of the dominant instinct is blatantly obvious. Others, less so. I'd say I'm definitely a sexual/self pres mix.

I feel you on this one. I had a devil of a time trying to figure out instincts. I'm not a typical "needy, impractical sx4", which made me think I was sp-first for a long time--I rely on myself and seldom go crying to others, etc. The problem is, I just don't see self-pres setting off any 4ishness in me whatsoever, at any level, and I fail to see the need for ambiance, luxury, and comfortable surrounds that are said to accompany this stacking (I guess you could attribute this to the 5-wing). I strongly identify with social 4 issues, but then can't see it reaching the level of dominant-instinct neurosis.

When I read about the instincts themselves, I've clearly got neuroses around each, and blindspots around each. It's like...ARGGHH!!! In the end, I just went by motivations (what sets off the 4-issues?), and how little am I motivated to maintain an interest sp stuff versus soc stuff.

The stacking isn't always obvious. Mine is generally challenged, no matter what I type as. XD

Interestingly, I think naranjo's descriptions would correspond in this way for tritype- sort of, I didn't give it tons of thought. (I'd love to get others' opinions):

459: sp/so or so/sp
451: sp/sx
458: sx/sp
469: so/sp (maybe so/sx)
461: sp/sx
468: sx
479: so
471: sx/sp or sx/so?
478: sx

This doesn't mean that I think that people of this tritype are this instinct and vice versa, just that this is the sort of 'flavor' the tritype descriptions seem to give that correspond with the sort of 'flavor' Naranjo's descriptions seem to give. It would explain why when I listen to Naranjo I begin to wonder if I have a social instinct in there somewhere (despite the fact that I have little to no interest in belonging, etc.) because of my tendency toward passivity.

I think the Fauvres state that generally the 468 is sexual first, and 459 has a sp/sx norm (this is true of my mother, a 945). The others I haven't heard anything about, though I'd imagine all are subject to each instinct.

It's something I've been wondering about recently though--how does each tritype correlate to instincts? How does each tritype correlate to cognitive functions? Is an ESFJ or INFP 683 possible? It seems like a contradiction in terms! Are 548s more likely to be Ni-dom (a 548 friend indicated that it's a "very Ni" combination)?

For example, when I was younger, I might look at a group of people in some social situation and stay apart instead of taking a chair beside them, because I'd feel they would rather someone else sit there. To them, I was a snob; to me, I had rejected myself for them, saving them the trouble and me the humiliation. I suppose the difference here between an sp/sx and sp/so is that this attitude is more often directed at relationships where I'd desire something more intense but think this is unwanted by the other & might cause them to reject me as an obsessive creeper. It does pop up in social spheres too, as in my illustration, but I have enough disdain & disinterest at times to the point that I may actually be a snob, haha.

WOW I totally relate! If this is evidence of social-last, maybe I am that!! I've always assumed people don't want me around (or at least I have since I was rejected as a kid). It took me a long time to consciously realize that this was the underlying dynamic, but basically, I maintain the perception that my presence is an imposition rather than a benefit.

Is it not possible to be balanced in all three realms? sx, sp, so? [MENTION=7140]brainheart[/MENTION]

According to the theory, some people are relatively good at each, but there's supposed to be one that's more neurotic than the others. I find instincts to be the hardest part of the theory to grasp, though. I'm still not even 100% on my own stacking, but so far it provides the best explanation for the sorts of issues I've torqued out about/not torqued out about in my life.

 

[Lady_X]

And with that, I will join the rest of the conversation:


That's an interesting way to look at it. I find that most descriptions are very, very 9-fix-biased. I've seen 3s, 4s, 6s, and 7s with an 8-fix all mistype (the 1-fix I've been following less, but this may be true as well). The 3s don't see themselves in that "vacuous, ingratiating suck up" taint that sometimes emerges. 8-fixed fours don't see themselves as "weak, impractical, and openly vulnerable" which much of the literature implies is true. The 6s don't see themselves as "passive-aggressive" and willing to yield to the pressure of others for security; the 7s see themselves as "too angry" to be such a happy, upbeat optimist.

I could go on, but I feel that many descriptions do have that bias as well. Thank you for pointing this out.


Sounds like it's your last fix. That one can be hard to ascertain--if there's a tritype that sounds more like you, that may be it. Give it some thought.


I'll give some unsolicited advice:

What you say here sounds like 6 and 1 to me, though that's not intended as an assessment by any means. In my experience, the 8 is not so much about "aggression" (which is partly how I didn't see it in my own case), but more a sense of War. Towards life.

1s, 6s, and 8s can all be fairness-oriented and will stick up for perceived injustices. Reactive types in general have issues with "other people telling me what to do". Just some thoughts.

Have you read through the tritype descriptions? It might give you a starting ground.



I feel you on this one. I had a devil of a time trying to figure out instincts. I'm not a typical "needy, impractical sx4", which made me think I was sp-first for a long time--I rely on myself and seldom go crying to others, etc. The problem is, I just don't see self-pres setting off any 4ishness in me whatsoever, at any level, and I fail to see the need for ambiance, luxury, and comfortable surrounds that are said to accompany this stacking (I guess you could attribute this to the 5-wing). I strongly identify with social 4 issues, but then can't see it reaching the level of dominant-instinct neurosis.

When I read about the instincts themselves, I've clearly got neuroses around each, and blindspots around each. It's like...ARGGHH!!! In the end, I just went by motivations (what sets off the 4-issues?), and how little am I motivated to maintain an interest sp stuff versus soc stuff.

The stacking isn't always obvious. Mine is generally challenged, no matter what I type as. XD


I think the Fauvres state that generally the 468 is sexual first, and 459 has a sp/sx norm (this is true of my mother, a 945). The others I haven't heard anything about, though I'd imagine all are subject to each instinct.

It's something I've been wondering about recently though--how does each tritype correlate to instincts? How does each tritype correlate to cognitive functions? Is an ESFJ or INFP 683 possible? It seems like a contradiction in terms! Are 548s more likely to be Ni-dom (a 548 friend indicated that it's a "very Ni" combination)?


WOW I totally relate! If this is evidence of social-last, maybe I am that!! I've always assumed people don't want me around (or at least I have since I was rejected as a kid). It took me a long time to consciously realize that this was the underlying dynamic, but basically, I maintain the perception that my presence is an imposition rather than a benefit.


According to the theory, some people are relatively good at each, but there's supposed to be one that's more neurotic than the others. I find instincts to be the hardest part of the theory to grasp, though. I'm still not even 100% on my own stacking, but so far it provides the best explanation for the sorts of issues I've torqued out about/not torqued out about in my life.

Like 728 or 721 instead? I'll read about those too but I do feel very peacemaker ish. Just not out of a need to avoid conflict. Am I making any sense? I don't know if I know how to say what I mean.

 

[Chad of the OttomanEmpire]

Like 728 or 721 instead? I'll read about those too but I do feel very peacemaker ish. Just not out of a need to avoid conflict. Am I making any sense? I don't know if I know how to say what I mean.

Yeah, maybe 728 or 721. The peacemakerishness (lol) could be from being double positive-outlook. But then again, as a core assertive type, you may simply not be as conflict-avoidant as some other 9-fixers.

 

[Lady_X]

Wait didn't I post this? I don't know what happened. I've got incense burning my eyes.



278– The Free Spirit but they also identify with Humanitarian Archetype

827 Caring and innovative 8. Most people-oriented 8. Likes to be in relationship. Gentle and helpful, especially with 9 wing.

278 tritype, that personifies the outgoing, helpful and confident nature of that lively archetype.

(2)-7-8 - The Aggressive 2
2-(7)-8 - The Power-Seeking 7
2-7-(8) - The Positive 8

Very hardy individual and other-focused. Fun, charming, and sexual.

278 is the most enthusiastic, joyful. positive and exuberant tritype. They are people focused and aim to please. They must help like the 126 but are their own authority and follow their own muse like the 478. They are gregarious and funny.

278, 782, 827 - The Free Spirit: You like to use your charming, sunny disposition to create an upbeat, positive, and action-packed environment. You are also very nurturing to those in your circle of care. Your life mission is to be an instrument of change, transforming difficult situations into moments of inspiration. A true free spirit, you are happiest when you are on the go and helping others to learn to act on their own behalf. Your blind spot is that you can be so focused on keeping everything positive and honest that you can be too aggressive and fail to recognize the importance of difficult emtions. You also keep busy and in motion to avoid painful feelings. Your growing edge is to recognize that you need to always be postivie, upbeat, and free can limit your ability to self reflect and fully be yourself. True happiness and joy come from being present to your higher self and experiencing all of your emotions.

eight with a two fix: the overtly magnanimous and big hearted eight. sacrificial-dominant
style of relating to others; as protector, big spender, mama-bear
quality.

87?: Focused, intuitive, and innovative. Most assertive and noncomforming 8. Moody, intense, eccentric, entrepreneurial 8 especially if sx.

The 827 is extremely positive, upbeat and helpful. They take charge but do so with a light touch that is sensitive to the needs of others. They are often humanitarians that focus on manifesting their vision..... Excess meets gluttony and pride... When the core fears of these three types unite it can create a defense strategy that is quite compassionate but can also struggle with issues of arrogance and/or pride about what they do.

*Most freedom loving-827, 278, 728

This actually fits better I think.

 

[Lady_X]

Wait didn't I post this? I don't know what happened. I've got incense burning my eyes.



278– The Free Spirit but they also identify with Humanitarian Archetype

827 Caring and innovative 8. Most people-oriented 8. Likes to be in relationship. Gentle and helpful, especially with 9 wing.

278 tritype, that personifies the outgoing, helpful and confident nature of that lively archetype.

(2)-7-8 - The Aggressive 2
2-(7)-8 - The Power-Seeking 7
2-7-(8) - The Positive 8

Very hardy individual and other-focused. Fun, charming, and sexual.

278 is the most enthusiastic, joyful. positive and exuberant tritype. They are people focused and aim to please. They must help like the 126 but are their own authority and follow their own muse like the 478. They are gregarious and funny.

278, 782, 827 - The Free Spirit: You like to use your charming, sunny disposition to create an upbeat, positive, and action-packed environment. You are also very nurturing to those in your circle of care. Your life mission is to be an instrument of change, transforming difficult situations into moments of inspiration. A true free spirit, you are happiest when you are on the go and helping others to learn to act on their own behalf. Your blind spot is that you can be so focused on keeping everything positive and honest that you can be too aggressive and fail to recognize the importance of difficult emtions. You also keep busy and in motion to avoid painful feelings. Your growing edge is to recognize that you need to always be postivie, upbeat, and free can limit your ability to self reflect and fully be yourself. True happiness and joy come from being present to your higher self and experiencing all of your emotions.

eight with a two fix: the overtly magnanimous and big hearted eight. sacrificial-dominant
style of relating to others; as protector, big spender, mama-bear
quality.

87?: Focused, intuitive, and innovative. Most assertive and noncomforming 8. Moody, intense, eccentric, entrepreneurial 8 especially if sx.

The 827 is extremely positive, upbeat and helpful. They take charge but do so with a light touch that is sensitive to the needs of others. They are often humanitarians that focus on manifesting their vision..... Excess meets gluttony and pride... When the core fears of these three types unite it can create a defense strategy that is quite compassionate but can also struggle with issues of arrogance and/or pride about what they do.

*Most freedom loving-827, 278, 728

This actually fits better I think.

 

[Haven]

9w1 is more about being bothered by conflict, whereas 9w8 is more about being indifferent to conflict. It doesn't disrupt their peace like 9w1s because it doesn't register.

 

[Lady_X]

Idk man ahh. I did just tell this to my bf and he said that he was beginning to wonder if I had 8 in there somewhere. He said I don't seem very interested in keeping the peace much at all. Like that's just not ever a focus and that I'd much rather just do my own thing.

 

[Haven]

Idk man ahh. I did just tell this to my bf and he said that he was beginning to wonder if I had 8 in there somewhere. He said I don't seem very interested in keeping the peace much at all. Like that's just not ever a focus and that I'd much rather just do my own thing.

Do you mean "keep the peace" like if someone is fighting with someone else you would try to stop it?

In that case, 9s would rather stay out of conflict altogether. What you say sounds more 9ish than anything.

 

[Kasper]

9w1 is more about being bothered by conflict, whereas 9w8 is more about being indifferent to conflict. It doesn't disrupt their peace like 9w1s because it doesn't register.

Where'd you pull that one from?

 

[Haven]

Where'd you pull that one from?

Could I have worded that better?

 

[Kasper]

Could I have worded that better?

Dunno, it's something I've not heard before and I would disagree with it in the current wording. A 9w8 is more likely than a 9w1 to intervene when something around them is awry conflict wise, if you consider an 8 v 1 you could simplify in a generic way as aggressive v critical. 9s are laid back more because they are un-invested then because they aren't bothered, it's not really a good thing, neither is indifferent to conflict though (although conflict isn't the core issue 9s have), they can react differently is all.

 

[Haven]

Oh yea, when I try to intervene (with my 9w1 fix) in conflict I get all tense and nervous, and when the conflict is over I'm still tense, but my 9w8 friend can step in, get all the shouting over with and be laughing it up seconds later. To me it seems indifferent to conflict, but now I think that is the wrong word to use. Somehow 9w8 manages to stay peaceful during conflict.

 

[Lady_X]

Do you mean "keep the peace" like if someone is fighting with someone else you would try to stop it?

In that case, 9s would rather stay out of conflict altogether. What you say sounds more 9ish than anything.

No not at all like that. Like I will but in and try and help people resolve stuff. Like in an unbiased way just help people communicate if I can. Which is what I thought was peacemaker ish.

What he meant was that I never avoid conflict in order to keep the peace. Like just go along with something or bend. I'd rather fight or challenge the situation to correct it.

 

[brainheart]

Is it not possible to be balanced in all three realms? sx, sp, so? [MENTION=7140]brainheart[/MENTION]

And [MENTION=18576]Sanjuro[/MENTION]

I have no fucking clue anymore. I'm totally feeling the social instinct at the moment in a neurotic way, for example. So much shame and self consciousness. But I don't usually. How do you account for that? (I'm also sliding into some serious depression, though, which confuses things.) What Naranjo says about the social four being self-sabotaging, also, I do. I'm incredibly self sabotaging. It doesn't help that when I listen to Naranjo the self pres and social resonate the strongest. That whole 'do you see how I don't complain? What a good girl I am' comment makes me feel like crying every time I hear it.


How did I settle on sx/sp? Because sexual instinct stuff seems to bother me the most on a consistent basis.

Why self pres second? Because it bothers me the least. I feel most stable in this area. It's where I go to recoup and get some balance. (Money and career are not my self pres strengths, though. But I am good at taking care of my health and prioritizing my overall well-being. Although when my moods get nuts this slips too. But it's usually what I use to regain equilibrium.)

Why social last? Because I'm usually pretty indifferent. But I can also ignore it to such an extent that when I am placed in the social realm/need to navigate social stuff I feel like a two year old, development wise. And then I feel like such an incompetent idiot and the waves of my social flaws crash over me. This has confused me (and still does, on occasion) because I do feel that pain acutely when it happens. It feels like a regression, like I'm a child all over again.

Maybe its coz sp makes you more able to extract yourself from the social forum where doing that non-stop gets you whacked on the nose non-stop as it requires more of a focus on yourself and your goal than on others?

I'm sorry, I've read this sentence at least twenty times and I have no idea what you're saying.